Alex Table Tennis - MyTableTennis.NET Homepage
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Spare racket ruling
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

megaspin.net
Forum Home Forum Home > General > General

Spare racket ruling

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
Author
racquetsforsale View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member


Joined: 10/02/2010
Status: Offline
Points: 1181
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote racquetsforsale Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Spare racket ruling
    Posted: 05/24/2012 at 11:39am
Scenario #1: Known RPB player has inverted on one side and SP on the other, but for the first half of his match, he plays traditional PH with the inverted only. Then for the remainder of his match, he switches to playing traditional PH with the SP only.

Scenario #2: Known RPB player has inverted on one side and SP on the other. For the first half of his match, he plays traditional PH with the inverted only. Then he tears the rubber and goes to his backup setup: same blade,  same SP as his main setup, but bare on the other side, though it's painted per regulations. For the remainder of his match, he plays traditional PH with the SP.

Scenario #3: Same as Scenario #2, except there is no problem with the player's main setup, but he goes to his backup setup anyways.

Scenario #4: Known traditional PH player uses a blade with inverted on one side and SP on the other. For the first half of his match, he plays traditional PH with the inverted only. Then for the remainder of his match, he switches to playing traditional PH with the SP only. 

Which if any of these scenario is against the rules?


Back to Top
Speedplay View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar

Joined: 07/11/2006
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 3354
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Speedplay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/24/2012 at 11:45am
3, you aren't allowed to change you bat unless it is (accidentially) damaged.
Blade: Dawei Wavestone
Fh: Giant Dragon Tai-Chi Hard
Bh: Giant Dragon Karate Hard
Back to Top
Rich215 View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar

Joined: 02/28/2008
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3189
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rich215 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/24/2012 at 11:46am
I thought you can not switch to using another racket during the match unless the one you started with was damaged to the point it would effect play, especially the rubber surface. 

You can use any back up racket as long as it is legal, doesn't have to be same setup as the one you started with. 

Back to Top
chopchopslam View Drop Down
Silver Member
Silver Member
Avatar

Joined: 09/28/2011
Location: Iowa
Status: Offline
Points: 707
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chopchopslam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/24/2012 at 11:48am
Scenarios 1,2, and 4 are legal.

Scenario 3 is illegal:

3.4.2.3 A racket shall not be replaced during an individual match unless it is accidentally damaged so badly that it cannot be used; if this happens the damaged racket shall be replaced immediately by another which the player has brought with him to the playing area or one which is handed to him in the playing area.

Butterfly Grubba Pro
Tenergy 80
National Team Pogo LP .6mm
Back to Top
zeio View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member


Joined: 03/25/2010
Status: Offline
Points: 1357
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/24/2012 at 11:49am
Scenario 3 could be against the rules.

2.04.08  Before the start of a match and whenever he or she changes his or her racket during a match a player shall show his or her opponent and the umpire the racket he or she is about to use and shall allow them to examine it.

3.05.02.05  If a player changes his or her racket during an individual match when it has not been damaged, the umpire shall suspend play and report to the referee.
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
Back to Top
chopchopslam View Drop Down
Silver Member
Silver Member
Avatar

Joined: 09/28/2011
Location: Iowa
Status: Offline
Points: 707
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chopchopslam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/24/2012 at 11:49am
Interesting that you are not allowed to leave the playing area. So I can't run over to my bag in the stands and grab my backup racket? I guess I don't have to worry about this at my amateur level. Wink
Butterfly Grubba Pro
Tenergy 80
National Team Pogo LP .6mm
Back to Top
power7 View Drop Down
Silver Member
Silver Member


Joined: 01/25/2012
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 759
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote power7 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/24/2012 at 11:52am
#3 is not allowed.

#2 the player has to present is spare to the umpire and opponent.  If it is legal racket and no one objects game resumes.

#1 and #4 It's the same racket in play, so doesn't matter.  It could be shakehand player twiddling in the middle of the match.
DHS PG-7, H3 Neo, 729-5

Butterfly Power-7, Red TG2 Neo 39degree, Black Donic Bluefire M1
Back to Top
racquetsforsale View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member


Joined: 10/02/2010
Status: Offline
Points: 1181
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote racquetsforsale Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/24/2012 at 12:06pm
Okay. Thanks, folks.

I was told by a coach that the blade and rubbers of the spare setup must be the same as the main one that is damaged, hence the way the scenarios are crafted.
Back to Top
racquetsforsale View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member


Joined: 10/02/2010
Status: Offline
Points: 1181
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote racquetsforsale Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/24/2012 at 12:14pm
Follow-up question. It sounds like the spare setup can be whatever. So if a player has been playing double inverted, then accidentally damages his racket, he can switch to say SP and LP in the middle of a match? That doesn't seem fair, because his opponent might be at a disadvantage against chopping from LPs. Or does the opponent have the right to object?
Back to Top
ZApenholder View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member


Joined: 03/04/2012
Location: South Africa
Status: Offline
Points: 4370
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ZApenholder Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/24/2012 at 12:18pm
well, it needs to be the same because whats the point if you borrow some one elses setup, with different blade and rubbers, i'm sure your game will be off right? Under the rule - it can be different setup if require replacing due to damanges.

most professionals has 1 to 2 back up setup besides the main set up.
I seen CNT warm up with all 3 set up in the practice hall.

President & Head Coach
Tony's Table Tennis
(Shop, Academy, Agency)
Yasaka Sponsored Coach
Back to Top
racquetsforsale View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member


Joined: 10/02/2010
Status: Offline
Points: 1181
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote racquetsforsale Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/24/2012 at 12:23pm
Some players are proficient playing different styles and different rubbers. Some are even proficient in both SH and PH. The point is more about potential disruption to the opponent as a result of a dramatic change. Of course, if the setting of the premise is the international stage of professional competition at the highest level, then what you say is true. But say you run into something like this at your local tournament. It's not difficult to picture someone who's really good playing double inverted and less than stellar against the pips and antispin varieties.
Back to Top
ZApenholder View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member


Joined: 03/04/2012
Location: South Africa
Status: Offline
Points: 4370
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ZApenholder Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/24/2012 at 12:25pm
racquestforsale,

yes you are right.
I recall hearing a rule some where that it needs to be the same type of rubber, sp for sp, lp for lp, inverted for inverted.

how true is this?
President & Head Coach
Tony's Table Tennis
(Shop, Academy, Agency)
Yasaka Sponsored Coach
Back to Top
zeio View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member


Joined: 03/25/2010
Status: Offline
Points: 1357
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/24/2012 at 12:39pm
Different rules for different associations.  The quoted rules regarding racket replacement are for international competitions only.

If you know ahead your opponent has trouble against pips or anti, then you may as well opt for them in place of inverted from the get-go.

And if one is proficient to adjust the strokes, it is totally feasible to play like anti with inverted on some shots.

Edited by zeio - 05/24/2012 at 12:40pm
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
Back to Top
power7 View Drop Down
Silver Member
Silver Member


Joined: 01/25/2012
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 759
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote power7 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/24/2012 at 11:43pm
I think the rules are like this because at smaller venues, not all players have backup equip.  So in case of damage they can borrow someone else or use the club's spare equipment.

Unless you want them to buy a new rubber and glue it on right in the middle of tournament.  I mean some of these kids are like pretty young.  They might not be rolling with $80 for their BTY tenergy.
DHS PG-7, H3 Neo, 729-5

Butterfly Power-7, Red TG2 Neo 39degree, Black Donic Bluefire M1
Back to Top
atv View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member
Avatar

Joined: 03/18/2011
Location: Shanghai China
Status: Offline
Points: 1199
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote atv Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/25/2012 at 12:22am
Is there any difference between 1 and 4? 
YEO
FH: 729 08 ES
BH: Focus III Snipe
Senkoh-1
FH: H3 Comm
BH: 755
Back to Top
arg0 View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member
Avatar

Joined: 07/22/2009
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 1422
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote arg0 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/25/2012 at 1:37am
Yes: one plays traditional PH and the other RPB.
Nexy Lissom & Nittaku Violin LG.
Join FOTB and Nexy Clan.
Member: Nexy, Violin & 1-Ply Clans.
Back to Top
Speedplay View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar

Joined: 07/11/2006
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 3354
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Speedplay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/25/2012 at 10:57am
Originally posted by ZApenholder ZApenholder wrote:

racquestforsale,yes you are right.I recall hearing a rule some where that it needs to be the same type of rubber, sp for sp, lp for lp, inverted for inverted.how true is this?



Probably not true at all, I've never heard of it. You are free to use what ever back up bat you've got.

About the disadvantage. Sure, this could be true, but remember here, the blade have to be accidentially broken. If your opponent breaks his bat on purpose, he isn't allowed to change but will get Dqf instead. Then there is always the risk of going from a double inverted to a LP set up while you face someone who excels at playing against pips. So, this can work both ways. Besides, I doubt to many people who accidentially break their main set up, are interested in changeing to something completely different. Most people wants to play with the same stuff, or somethingh as simillar as possible.
Blade: Dawei Wavestone
Fh: Giant Dragon Tai-Chi Hard
Bh: Giant Dragon Karate Hard
Back to Top
chopchopslam View Drop Down
Silver Member
Silver Member
Avatar

Joined: 09/28/2011
Location: Iowa
Status: Offline
Points: 707
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chopchopslam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/25/2012 at 11:26am
I'm not sure how you're supposed to figure out that an opponent you are playing is going to be worse against pips mid-match, when you are playing double-inverted. I guess it could maybe work the other way around, if you are a blocker relying on funky rubber and you realize your opponent is not fooled in the slightest, you could switch to double inverted. But you'd then need to stage an accidental equipment damage, so... this is a pretty out-there scenario, lol.
Butterfly Grubba Pro
Tenergy 80
National Team Pogo LP .6mm
Back to Top
BH-Man View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar

Joined: 02/05/2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3059
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BH-Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/25/2012 at 12:00pm
What will Speedplay do when Der_Echte breaks into his flat, takes Speedplay's THREE backup Wavestones, and gives them away to the TT needy? BTW Speedplay, I gave away the Wavestone I had to a rec center worker on an Army camp here.
Korea Foreign Table Tennis Club
Search for us on Facebook: koreaforeignttc
Back to Top
Speedplay View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar

Joined: 07/11/2006
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 3354
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Speedplay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/25/2012 at 12:00pm
^Not to mention costly. To purposly damage a blade so it no longer can be used, whila making it look like an accident, sounds expensive to me.
Blade: Dawei Wavestone
Fh: Giant Dragon Tai-Chi Hard
Bh: Giant Dragon Karate Hard
Back to Top
igorponger View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member
Avatar

Joined: 07/29/2006
Location: Russian Federation
Status: Offline
Points: 1160
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote igorponger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/25/2012 at 12:44pm
Twiddling the racket will help you as much as swopping several different rackets in a match. . Moreover, the twiddling is entirely legal action in opposition to the swopping.    
http://www.gregsttpages.com/gttp/index.php/Long-Pimples/the-art-of-twiddling.html
Back to Top
ZApenholder View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member


Joined: 03/04/2012
Location: South Africa
Status: Offline
Points: 4370
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ZApenholder Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/25/2012 at 12:44pm
lol
to add, if that is your game plan, on how many setups you will need to have for you to reach the finals of a compeition.


President & Head Coach
Tony's Table Tennis
(Shop, Academy, Agency)
Yasaka Sponsored Coach
Back to Top
JimT View Drop Down
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
Avatar

Joined: 10/26/2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 13249
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JimT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/25/2012 at 12:46pm
In the USATT rules there is absolutely no stipulation as to what kind of backup racket you are allowed to use if the main one is broken or DQ'd. Recently, at USA Nationals 2011, Dan Seemiller had to use another racket (as his main one was DQ'd) and used a setup which was quite different from his usual one - he lost the match.
Single Ply Hinoki Club, Founding Member
Say "no!" to expensive table tennis equipment. Please...
Back to Top
hookumsnivy View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member
Avatar

Joined: 11/04/2010
Location: Syracuse, NY
Status: Offline
Points: 1269
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hookumsnivy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/25/2012 at 12:55pm
Question:
Does it have to be damaged, or just unplayable by rule?
For example, if your rubber isn't properly attached - ie the rubber/sponge is separating from the blade it becomes unplayable because it's not consistent.  By rule (unless that has changed), you are not allowed to glue at the venue so you can't fix it.  Could you use your backup at that point?
If so, what prevents a player from slowly pulling his rubber off during a match - say w/ his paddle under the table between points while waiting for a serve?

Very hypothetical of course.
Back to Top
Rich215 View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar

Joined: 02/28/2008
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3189
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rich215 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/25/2012 at 1:46pm
The umpire will make the decision if it is unplayable or not.   If you are caught trying to pull the rubber off at all or trying to "self damage"  the rubber by hitting the corner edge of the table,  you will be immediately DQ'd.  It has happened before in an ITTF event, and one I recall seeing from California.  

Edited by Rich215 - 05/25/2012 at 1:46pm

Back to Top
Speedplay View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar

Joined: 07/11/2006
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 3354
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Speedplay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/25/2012 at 3:26pm
Originally posted by hookumsnivy hookumsnivy wrote:

Question:
Does it have to be damaged, or just unplayable by rule?
For example, if your rubber isn't properly attached - ie the rubber/sponge is separating from the blade it becomes unplayable because it's not consistent.  By rule (unless that has changed), you are not allowed to glue at the venue so you can't fix it.  Could you use your backup at that point?
If so, what prevents a player from slowly pulling his rubber off during a match - say w/ his paddle under the table between points while waiting for a serve?
Very hypothetical of course.


Well done, you have spotted the grey area here. I've been contemplating this my self and I haven't been able to find a correct answer to it. To pull the rubber off the blade should be easily enough, with out catching the umpires attention.

Another rule question, almost ( ) related to the topic. What if the opponent feels he is so superior to you, so he flips his blade around and plays with the handle, while holding on to the blades head, would this be legal? All hypotetical, off course.
Blade: Dawei Wavestone
Fh: Giant Dragon Tai-Chi Hard
Bh: Giant Dragon Karate Hard
Back to Top
Speedplay View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar

Joined: 07/11/2006
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 3354
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Speedplay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/26/2012 at 5:11pm
No answers to this yet? I thought someone would know, at least about pulling the rubber off.
Blade: Dawei Wavestone
Fh: Giant Dragon Tai-Chi Hard
Bh: Giant Dragon Karate Hard
Back to Top
dingyibvs View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member
Avatar

Joined: 05/09/2011
Location: Florida
Status: Offline
Points: 1244
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dingyibvs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/26/2012 at 5:31pm
Yea, of course it's legal, you can play with any part of the blade and there are no rules regarding how you can hold the blade.
Blade: DHS DM-1000 CPEN
FH: Tenergy 05 2.1
BH: Acuda S3 Max
Back to Top
Speedplay View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar

Joined: 07/11/2006
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 3354
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Speedplay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/27/2012 at 2:30am
Originally posted by dingyibvs dingyibvs wrote:

Yea, of course it's legal, you can play with any part of the blade and there are no rules regarding how you can hold the blade.


Is it? Isn't there a rule about "the part used to strike a ball should be covered with rubber" and if you delibertly use the handle to play with, wouldn't you break this rule. Kind of like playing with a one sided C-pen and using the non rubber covered sided to hit with?
Blade: Dawei Wavestone
Fh: Giant Dragon Tai-Chi Hard
Bh: Giant Dragon Karate Hard
Back to Top
dingyibvs View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member
Avatar

Joined: 05/09/2011
Location: Florida
Status: Offline
Points: 1244
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dingyibvs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/27/2012 at 2:51am
Originally posted by Speedplay Speedplay wrote:

Originally posted by dingyibvs dingyibvs wrote:

Yea, of course it's legal, you can play with any part of the blade and there are no rules regarding how you can hold the blade.


Is it? Isn't there a rule about "the part used to strike a ball should be covered with rubber" and if you delibertly use the handle to play with, wouldn't you break this rule. Kind of like playing with a one sided C-pen and using the non rubber covered sided to hit with?

I thought it was the SIDE used to strike a ball should be covered with rubber except of course near the handle.  I mean, it happens from time to time that you hit the ball with the edge of the blade, the handle, or your hand, and they're all perfectly legal shots.
Blade: DHS DM-1000 CPEN
FH: Tenergy 05 2.1
BH: Acuda S3 Max
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down



This page was generated in 0.141 seconds.
Mark all posts as read :: Delete cookies set by this forum

Cookies and JavaScript must be enabled on your web browser in order to use this forum


Copyright © 2003-2013 MyTableTennis.NET - All Rights Reserved. Disclaimer