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42andbackpains View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 42andbackpains Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/02/2015 at 2:02pm
Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

He moved to California. That drops 209 pts from your rating until you move out.

It must be something in the water...Dead
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote geardaddy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/02/2015 at 2:12pm
Originally posted by Ringer84 Ringer84 wrote:

Originally posted by 42andbackpains 42andbackpains wrote:

Originally posted by schen schen wrote:

Here is a highlight video of my first month playing shakehand!  These are clips from two tournaments' U2150 events ....


Nice video Schen. Looking real good. Hope you hit 2000 soon. Good Luck!!!

Schen is not 2000+?

This is called "the miracle of editing".  If I'm not mistaken this video indicates that he never misses!  According to this he should be rated 3000+! Tongue
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote schen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/02/2015 at 4:28pm
Hahaha it's definitely just a highlight reel.  I have a few full matches elsewhere on my channel when I used to play penhold :P
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote schen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/02/2015 at 4:33pm
Originally posted by mhnh007 mhnh007 wrote:

Originally posted by schen schen wrote:

Here is a highlight video of my first month playing shakehand!  These are clips from two tournaments' U2150 events:

 
You chop very well for someone who just switch to SH.  Very nice video.
 
 

Thanks!  The difficult part I'm still experiencing is trying to force a chopping rally in matches while still feeling in control though.  In tournaments I find myself attacking quite a lot despite trying to shift into modern defense
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AcudaDave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/02/2015 at 4:40pm
that FH is money!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ahsq Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/02/2015 at 4:41pm
nice forehand, do you have any rally videos on looping?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TT newbie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/02/2015 at 5:04pm
Originally posted by geardaddy geardaddy wrote:

This is called "the miracle of editing".  If I'm not mistaken this video indicates that he never misses!  According to this he should be rated 3000+! Tongue
Exactly. I´m nothing more than an average player, but recorded some of my matches and made a highlight video where I play offensively just like Kreanga.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote schen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/02/2015 at 7:19pm
Originally posted by ahsq ahsq wrote:

nice forehand, do you have any rally videos on looping?

Unfortunately not - looping rallies don't really happen often at the under 2000 level from what I've seen.  Plus, there are very few people in U2150 who can return my opening loop if they cannot receive my serves well.

But against those who have a strong service receive: instead of opening safely, I opt to play defensively and push/chop instead anyway, and when I switch to attack it's usually to end the point rather than rally.  Tongue


Edited by schen - 09/02/2015 at 7:19pm
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schen: why the switch from PH to SH?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ahsq Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/02/2015 at 7:49pm
Originally posted by schen schen wrote:

Originally posted by ahsq ahsq wrote:

nice forehand, do you have any rally videos on looping?

Unfortunately not - looping rallies don't really happen often at the under 2000 level from what I've seen.  Plus, there are very few people in U2150 who can return my opening loop if they cannot receive my serves well.

But against those who have a strong service receive: instead of opening safely, I opt to play defensively and push/chop instead anyway, and when I switch to attack it's usually to end the point rather than rally.  Tongue


thats the spirit of a tournament. what were you placed?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote schen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/02/2015 at 7:52pm
Originally posted by slevin slevin wrote:

schen: why the switch from PH to SH?

I had been doing really poorly as a penholder ever since the change to the plastic ball.  I was very close to breaking into 2000 before the new ball, but after the celluloid ball was retired I dropped nearly 200-300 points.  I know rating is just a number but I FELT like I was playing worse and worse.  Combine the timing of the transition to the new ball with my moving away from the mecca of US table tennis (NYC), and it was all downhill and demoralizing for me for a while.

I think it was largely due to the style I played (very unbalanced, more tricky stuff and power to win points over stability and form), but I found with the new ball it was just not doing well for me anymore like it used to.  I also injured myself a few times trying to make up for lost power and it just wasn't a good time (rotator cuff injuries, back strains, finger cramps).  My right middle finger also appears to be permanently slightly crooked I think from my RPB grip.  Confused As much as I loved my penhold backhand, I decided it wasn't worth it because I need the full functionality of my body as a professional musician.

For shakehand, I realized that all but one of the 7 main coaches I've had in my time playing were short pip users and I had been given a LOT of insight on their use even while training as a penholder.  I also realized in my YouTube history of watching TT videos that I really liked watching modern defenders with short pips (Ding Song, Guang Qing Feng, Hou Yingchao), even more than my penhold idols.  And with the coaching resources available to me in San Diego (Stellan Bengtsson, Perry Schwartzberg, DJ and Earl Alto), it dawned on me that it's a good of a time as any to become a short pip chopper!  Cool


Edited by schen - 09/02/2015 at 7:53pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote schen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/02/2015 at 7:55pm
Originally posted by ahsq ahsq wrote:

Originally posted by schen schen wrote:

Originally posted by ahsq ahsq wrote:

nice forehand, do you have any rally videos on looping?

Unfortunately not - looping rallies don't really happen often at the under 2000 level from what I've seen.  Plus, there are very few people in U2150 who can return my opening loop if they cannot receive my serves well.

But against those who have a strong service receive: instead of opening safely, I opt to play defensively and push/chop instead anyway, and when I switch to attack it's usually to end the point rather than rally.  Tongue


thats the spirit of a tournament. what were you placed?

I think I made it to the quarterfinals for the first tournament.  The second tournament (in the green room) I did not place.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote berkeleydoctor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/03/2015 at 7:08pm
curious why short pip chopper instead of long pip?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote schen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/03/2015 at 7:17pm
For me, it's easier to manipulate the spin on pushes and chops, plus short pips allows for an optional stronger close-table offensive game.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dmras Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/04/2015 at 9:52am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote berkeleydoctor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/04/2015 at 5:15pm
Originally posted by dmras dmras wrote:


LOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOL
that is awesome
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TurboZ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/05/2015 at 7:15am
Originally posted by slevin slevin wrote:

schen: why the switch from PH to SH?
 
So sad to see one less penholder around...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Prasiddhathepro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/05/2015 at 11:50pm
Originally posted by monster23 monster23 wrote:

Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Here is a video of me getting annihilated by a 5 ft 10 13 year old giant kid who beat both Phillipe Dassonval and Rich DeWitt to win the U2200 at Westchester yesterday.  I was just road kill on the journey.   Motto: beware of who you give training tools to - you just might end up helping train someone to beat you mercilessly.



This kid has a very lazy playing style. He does not
even bend his knees.

"This Kid" is me and i think someone who beat Rich Dewitt and Phillipe Dassonval doesn't have a "lazy" game. Also considering he beat a 2278 and won the u2200 in the same tournament. My wrist gives me all the power and i don't need to bend my knees when I am controlling the match. No offense NL.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote viva Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/06/2015 at 12:48am
Originally posted by Prasiddhathepro Prasiddhathepro wrote:


"This Kid" is me and i think someone who beat Rich Dewitt and Phillipe Dassonval doesn't have a "lazy" game. Also considering he beat a 2278 and won the u2200 in the same tournament. My wrist gives me all the power and i don't need to bend my knees when I am controlling the match. No offense NL.

Monster23 made that "lazy" comment not NL, NL infact compared you to to Crisan just saying.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote benfb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/06/2015 at 12:55am
Originally posted by Prasiddhathepro Prasiddhathepro wrote:

Originally posted by monster23 monster23 wrote:

Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Here is a video of me getting annihilated by a 5 ft 10 13 year old giant kid who beat both Phillipe Dassonval and Rich DeWitt to win the U2200 at Westchester yesterday.  I was just road kill on the journey.   Motto: beware of who you give training tools to - you just might end up helping train someone to beat you mercilessly.




This kid has a very lazy playing style. He does not
even bend his knees.

"This Kid" is me and i think someone who beat Rich Dewitt and Phillipe Dassonval doesn't have a "lazy" game. Also considering he beat a 2278 and won the u2200 in the same tournament. My wrist gives me all the power and i don't need to bend my knees when I am controlling the match. No offense NL.
I'm pondering what to say to this, because I find it very unsettling.

1) Yes, it's impressive that you beat Rich and Phillipe and you are correspondingly stronger than NL.
2) On the other hand, you clearly were being lazy in this video and claiming that you weren't being lazy here because you had success elsewhere is nonsensical.
3) It may be that you felt you could play lazily because you were sure you'd win this match.  On the video you don't look that much like you're in control, but it's just a club match and people often don't make their best effort in friendly matches where they feel they are the stronger player. We've all been there where we put out just enough effort to win.
4) No, your wrist doesn't give you all the power you need -- the main difference on this video was NL lack of mobility.  Your advantages are speed and better technique, although that wasn't really demonstrated here.
5) The right response here was "hey, I knew he couldn't move and that I didn't need my best effort to win.  If you want to see my better play, find some of my other matches like with DeWitt."

People can be pretty nasty online when viewing other people's videos and I can understand that might hurt.  You just need to be the more mature person and take a positive attitude.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kenneyy88 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/06/2015 at 3:02am
Prasiddhathepro has a nice BH follow through. I sympathize with Prasiddhathepro, I'm a similar height and its a lot of work/pain to keep bending down especially when you are levels better than your opponent. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BRS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/06/2015 at 10:24am
I would take 'lazy playing style' as a compliment.  That's what I aspire to, to look like I am not really trying while beating a ~2000 player (or anybody really).  You could just as well call it an *easy* playing style, or *relaxed*, or whatever.  That's better than looking like you are running the marathon or powerlifting.  

@benfb I am unsettled by your decision to tell people what words to use to express themselves, and by extension what to think.  That's not right.  The correct response is whatever P the P feels like saying, because it comes from him honestly.  You can translate his response to Monster23 roughly to 'I'm a very good player, probably better than you, so shut up.'  Personally I like that response. But whether I like it or you don't like it doesn't matter, it's not ours to say.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/06/2015 at 11:06am
The point of the video was to advertise the young player - maybe it was a bad selection given I can't move anymore - now I feel bad for posting it because it seems to be bringing out some darker and moral aspects of people.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote benfb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/06/2015 at 11:10am
Originally posted by BRS BRS wrote:

I would take 'lazy playing style' as a compliment.  That's what I aspire to, to look like I am not really trying while beating a ~2000 player (or anybody really).  You could just as well call it an *easy* playing style, or *relaxed*, or whatever.  That's better than looking like you are running the marathon or powerlifting.  

@benfb I am unsettled by your decision to tell people what words to use to express themselves, and by extension what to think.  That's not right.  The correct response is whatever P the P feels like saying, because it comes from him honestly.  You can translate his response to Monster23 roughly to 'I'm a very good player, probably better than you, so shut up.'  Personally I like that response. But whether I like it or you don't like it doesn't matter, it's not ours to say.
Actually, I was trying to be nice.  My first reaction was that his post was a jerk response, showing a lack of respect for his opponent, himself, and the game.  Then I thought that maybe he just took it hard because some of the posts directed towards him were pretty direct and unkind. So I was saying "hey, if some of those posts hurt, there were better ways to respond."

There are only two times where a clear lack of effort are justified: either you're exhausted (e.g., he's been drilling multiball before playing NL), or you're just playing around and whatever you're doing doesn't matter (such as if his opponent has been a cousin he doesn't know how to play, not a decent player trying hard).  The rest of the time, if you're going to do something, do it right and work at it.

He's entitled to his own opinion, but arrogance or disrespect don't bode well for his future life, either as an adult or as a player.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote benfb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/06/2015 at 11:12am
Originally posted by kenneyy88 kenneyy88 wrote:

Prasiddhathepro has a nice BH follow through. I sympathize with Prasiddhathepro, I'm a similar height and its a lot of work/pain to keep bending down especially when you are levels better than your opponent. 
My understanding from NL's post is that he's 5'10", which is hardly "tall".  At that age and that height, bending his knees should be about as hard as talking.  It would be quite different for a player like Jim Butler, who is both much taller and has a pretty beat up and aging body.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote benfb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/06/2015 at 11:52am
Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

The point of the video was to advertise the young player - maybe it was a bad selection given I can't move anymore - now I feel bad for posting it because it seems to be bringing out some darker and moral aspects of people.
The video was fine, the real problem started with the posts afterwards.  I don't want to pick on the kid -- he's only 13, after all.  That's why my first post was intended to cut him some slack. At the same time, 13 is an age where feedback on character issues is as important as feedback on technique.  And if I really want him to grow up as a strong player, then it's worth teaching him now to always focus.

Anyway, I'm done posting on this issue. But I would like to see a video of his match against Dewitt -- and I won't complain about his play, either.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ahsq Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/06/2015 at 4:53pm
take a chill pill. how the kid wants to play is his business. if he wants to play "lazy style" or "hyper ma-long style" then he gets to play "lazy style" or "hyper ma-long style"

This is america where people have choices. if PP wants to go the route he is going then let him, if later on he encounters defeat as it is going to happen then he will pick it up.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote shay2be Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/06/2015 at 8:27pm
Ok let me chime in a little bit and say my perspective
I play prasiddha a lot.. in fact, almost everyday
and my style is traditional, "correct", active and IMO, my style is pretty physical 
Now, me and prasiddha usually split, maybe i have a slight advantage as far as records go
NL and Prasiddha are more than capable of beating me even though i bend my knees, run around, and loop all the time
Just from my experience, just because you bend your knees and loop and feel dog tired does not translate into wins
but honestly, there are times when im like, but he just stands there and blocks everything till I miss!
and if that game works, there is nothing wrong with continuing to play that way, regardless of bending one's knees or not
there is one table tennis master at the club named Herbert and he once told me,
Never change a winning game, only change a losing one
my thing is, unless one actually defeats their opponent in a tournament, dont critique the opponent's game because either you do not know what actually happened because you did not play the player (prasidda) or whatever you thought was going to work didnt (you lost)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote benfb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/06/2015 at 9:31pm
Originally posted by shay2be shay2be wrote:

Just from my experience, just because you bend your knees and loop and feel dog tired does not translate into wins
but honestly, there are times when im like, but he just stands there and blocks everything till I miss!
and if that game works, there is nothing wrong with continuing to play that way, regardless of bending one's knees or not
there is one table tennis master at the club named Herbert and he once told me,
Never change a winning game, only change a losing one
my thing is, unless one actually defeats their opponent in a tournament, dont critique the opponent's game because either you do not know what actually happened because you did not play the player (prasidda) or whatever you thought was going to work didnt (you lost)
And if you were talking about some 40 year old guy who is unlikely to improve the rest of his life, then I'd be fine with your conclusions.  Instead, you're talking about a 13 year old who probably has more ambition than to stay at his current level.  Winning now says nothing about winning later, at a higher level. To get better, he will have to change, even if he's already winning.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/06/2015 at 11:53pm
Let's try to move on from the discussion about knee bending - here is my latest match vs. DeWitt.

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