tacky rubber vs non tacky

which one is better for looping tacky rubbers or non tacky rubbers ?

It depends!

the tackiest rubber I've seen is DHS G777; and the sponge is like a brick.  Hurricane 2 (non-neo) is also very tacky.  H3 is actually the least tacky among the Hurricane and TG series.

Tacky rubbers are non necessarily that spinny.  Also, the tacky force must be broken as the ball leaves the rubber.   The advantage that tacky rubbers have is that the rubber will grip the ball at more extreme angles than non tacky rubbers will.   However, the really spinny rubbers generate spin by the tangential stretching of the top sheet.   It is the springing back of the top sheet to the normal position that adds extra spin to the ball.

Mahdi_mak2000 wrote: I prefer non tacky .... I have problem with tacky rubber bcz it affect alot by opponent spin

I'm not sure this is entirely true.

I might agree with you when playing against slow balls (serve receive, push, heavy spin slow loops)

But against fast balls (smashes, heavy spin but fast drives or when counterhitting various faster loops) many tacky rubbers seem to allow a brief "slip" where the tacky disengages before the sponge grip engages providing some margin for error.

When you get a chance, take a ball and try sliding it across a topsheet. Some tacky rubbers only "grab" with light pressure and then slip as you apply more force (they are purely tacky, but not very mechanically grippy).

And there's the chance that I might be totally misunderstanding what is happening.

I also don't believe tacky rubbers are more affected by incoming spin. In fact, I see them as incoming spin eaters, they act close to short pips in this aspect - I even remember a friend of mine described his first experience with H3, many people were asking him what pips did he use then... Another aspect of tacky rubbers is better ability to keep the ball short, especially comparing to the modern Euro/Japanese bouncy rubbers, I noticed this immediately when switched from tacky Thor's, so I now wait for Xiom Vega China or Tau - whichever will become available to me first. 

GoldenDragoon wrote: I play with with ESN FH and BH but I have played with a few other rubbers including tacky like TG3, H3 and one or two others I can't remember. I.find tacky.is easier to use period but has less maximum potential...

That's strange. Comparing an untuned H3Neo Provincial and Acuda S3 on my FH, I could use the same strokes, but the Acuda S3 was far easier to use, and consistently put more FH loops, blocks, drives and smashes on the table. However, many more of my attacks came back, as the opponent got a feel for the range of spin that S3 produces. In other words, consistency was an 8 on a scale of 1 to 10 and spin produced was always in the 4-6 range.

With the H3NP my footwork and timing had to be a lot better for me to be consistent, but the balls produced with the same attacks had a much greater range of spin. So consistency might be a 4-6 on the same scale, but the spin amount could range from 2-8, giving a blocker or counter hitter fits.

But I can see your point - a rubber like 729 FX Lightning is easier to use than Acuda, but simply can't produce the speed at mid distance that Acuda can. So I don't think you can generalize "tacky vs non tacky" without looking at the sponge.

I think in order to spin the ball, the rubber has to first grip the ball and then readily allow the ball to spin. Tacky rubbers don't "let go" of the ball as readily after gripping the ball. I find some tacky rubbers produce less spin than grippy rubbers as a result of this difference. Nevertheless, regarding reaction to incoming spin, my experience so far suggests tacky rubbers are more reactive. I let folks playing with T05 try my 729 Super FX and TG2 and they usually net several underspin service returns before they can adjust.

cole_ely wrote: I just want to cast my vote that tacky rubbers are more affected by spin than non tacky.  Seems simple physics to me. Perhaps the fact that the tacky topsheets tend to be harder and on harder sponges will muddy the issue.  But I believe that if two rubbers are the same but one is formulated tackier, that rubber will be more affected by incoming spin.  How could it not be?

tacky rubbers are spinnier if you know how to brush and contact the ball correctly

There,s not a principle difference made between tack and grip by being able to lift a ball or not. I use this for myself as I prefer it when a rubber is near this edge (and keep it there using tuner or biocleaner). When I bougt my first Ritc 729 rubbers years ago I wondered what they meant with what the package said : "high viscosity topsheetmaterial gripping the ball .....".

To understand it needs to realize that rubber is  visco - elastic. It,s also a compound. The polymerpart with croslinks can be seen as one network molecule. The polymeres have good strength but the flexibillity is mostly the network. Just as with carbon the flexibillity can be all different from softer or harder epoxy. The elastic behaviour for a layer in a tabletennisblade also changes drastical then. For instance when rubbercement would be used instead of epoxy the weave keeps more flexibillity. The famous ping sound is completely gone then. But epoxy also can have different hardness I suppose.

With rubber I think the tack can be seen in this viscous part. It,s kept by the network of polymeres as oil/water is kept by an olive. A ball contacts with it when it,s at the surface with some pressure in between.
The viscous part seals to the balls shape not much different then cellophane or a plastic sealing cup to a window. The polymere network and cohesion ties it to the rubber. All combined conects the ball to the polymere network.

The viscousness for this viscous part can be different and the amount (to the network of polymeres) also. Adding tuner or po oil for topsheet tuning ( or taking care of it to last longer ;
 I,m both environment and money conscious) adds to the amount and when the tuner is thin fluid it could lower the viscousness (less thick).

The rubber becomes more viscous then and the viscous part becomes less viscous (somewhat confusing maybe but the word viscous relates to different things here ; the rubber and the viscous part of it). What the real thickness is I don,t know. It could be comparable with fluid rubbercement from a bottle or maybe much thicker. That will have some tack for sure.

The viscous part also influences the elasticity, suppleness and inner friction so it works both ends.
Increasing tack in produktion will at  some point decrease elasticity. Less elasticity means less speed.

Why tacky rubbers can be less spinsensitive is maybe because they are mostly harder sponge or just less elastic.
Passiv block the ball penetrates the rubber (from speed) while the spin stretches the rubber tangential (also sponge) sideways to the blade in one direction, But pushes it up in other direction.
This happens simultaneous with compression. That means it has elastic torque between the ball and the blade. The ball is thrown at a deflected angle then.

With a returnboard playing topspin a higher throw rubber gives a higher return then a low throw rubber (board angle has to be adapted). But there is never topspin on the ball (that would be nice playing countertopspin to a returnboard) both return the ball without spin or the incoming spin is partly returned. When the bladeangle needs less adaption it means less spinsensitive.







Edited by mercuur - 06/28/2012 at 7:53am

Skyline wrote: stefashka wrote: I also don't believe tacky rubbers are more affected by incoming spin....   so you're basically saying that rubbers like h3 are good for flat hitting?

cotdt wrote: I'm confused. Why would you want to flat hit? It would be the easiest ball for the opponent to receive.

stefashka wrote: I also don't believe tacky rubbers are more affected by incoming spin. In fact, I see them as incoming spin eaters, they act close to short pips in this aspect - I even remember a friend of mine described his first experience with H3, many people were asking him what pips did he use then... Another aspect of tacky rubbers is better ability to keep the ball short, especially comparing to the modern Euro/Japanese bouncy rubbers, I noticed this immediately when switched from tacky Thor's, so I now wait for Xiom Vega China or Tau - whichever will become available to me first.  Actually, I'm a bit confused with Tau - does anybody has any information about it? I don't see it at xiomtt.com, but I've seen it in some Xiom's catalogue from another Xiom's site...