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Donic BlueFire M2 and M3 review

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote shirazir Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/30/2012 at 10:12pm
Originally posted by High_Arc High_Arc wrote:

Today a thought crossed my mind:


If you have been using T05 for the last months/years, you (in average) prefer T05 over M2. This is mainly because M2 feels different than T05.

If however you have been using something else recently, you (in average) prefer the M2 over T05.


The thought somehow is along the lines (don't find the quote, sorry): If you want to replace your T05 by something that feels like a T05, buy a T05. If however you want an improvement, get yourself an M2.

I still think that the fact that almost all professional players are using Tenergy means that it still has the edge if treated properly. But I wonder what they would choose if they were to use out of the package rubbers that anyone can buy.

+1

People are having a hard time fathoming that one isn't necessarily better than the other, they're just different. Just as H3 is incredible on the forehand on Zhang Jike and Ma Long, T05 and M2 will please different people. 

We've become obsessed with using Tenergy, particularly T05 as the benchmark for all other rubbers. While it's a great rubber, others do certain things better and certain things worse which makes it difficult to come to a universal decision on what is better or worse.

Personally, I haven't used M2 at all and have only used T05FX out of the Tenergy line so perhaps I can try and make a fair comparison without any bias when I have the chance. Now someone just send me a free sheet of T05 and M2 so I can compare LOL 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote High_Arc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/11/2012 at 6:01pm
Today I recorded about half an hour during warm up and drills. Just cut the record down to two minutes. I'm the guy in the red shirt.

I was using Bluefire M2 both sides on a Boll ALC. I'm still very positive about the M2. It does more or less anything equally well as a T05, if not better. However, it is obviously quite a bit more tuned fresh out of the package...

Hope you enjoy the video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uCTC1kYvEBE&feature=plcp

Btw, what USATT rating would you give me (the guy in red)?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carryboy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/11/2012 at 6:54pm
High_Arc, certainly way, way up there. Nice video!!

Btw, you have good footwork
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote High_Arc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/13/2012 at 3:55pm
Did anyone else notice:

BlueFire M2 (probably not only M2) gets quite a bit harder the more you play with it.

It feels sort of airy and soft on first use (and incredibly spinny), and then it gets harder. The process saturates after about two weeks or so. I personally prefer it when it's almost new, say on third and fourth day of use. The behavior is pretty similar to Tenergy, and I also prefer Tenergy almost new over brand new.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/13/2012 at 4:07pm
Originally posted by High_Arc High_Arc wrote:

Did anyone else notice:

BlueFire M2 (probably not only M2) gets quite a bit harder the more you play with it.

It feels sort of airy and soft on first use (and incredibly spinny), and then it gets harder. The process saturates after about two weeks or so. I personally prefer it when it's almost new, say on third and fourth day of use. The behavior is pretty similar to Tenergy, and I also prefer Tenergy almost new over brand new.
 
That's the booster wearing off.  The loss has been discussed earlier on this thread and elsewhere.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote slevin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/13/2012 at 4:38pm
Originally posted by High_Arc High_Arc wrote:

Did anyone else notice:

BlueFire M2 (probably not only M2) gets quite a bit harder the more you play with it.

It feels sort of airy and soft on first use (and incredibly spinny), and then it gets harder. The process saturates after about two weeks or so. I personally prefer it when it's almost new, say on third and fourth day of use. The behavior is pretty similar to Tenergy, and I also prefer Tenergy almost new over brand new.

You could keep a bottle of Dandoy Bioboost handy to put on a layer every 3-4 weeks for getting back soft feel (from posts here, it seems that that's the product the Bluefires are factory tuned with).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AndySmith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/13/2012 at 4:38pm
My M3 stayed excellent until week 4, and then the topsheet started to lose its soft feel.  So I started to use Falco Life Expander on the topsheet every other week.  It helps a lot - the topsheet stays supple.  I'm still using the first black sheet of M3 I had, and it's great.
This was a great signature until I realised it was overrated.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote High_Arc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/13/2012 at 5:06pm
Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Originally posted by High_Arc High_Arc wrote:

Did anyone else notice:

BlueFire M2 (probably not only M2) gets quite a bit harder the more you play with it.

It feels sort of airy and soft on first use (and incredibly spinny), and then it gets harder. The process saturates after about two weeks or so. I personally prefer it when it's almost new, say on third and fourth day of use. The behavior is pretty similar to Tenergy, and I also prefer Tenergy almost new over brand new.
 
That's the booster wearing off.  The loss has been discussed earlier on this thread and elsewhere.


I assumed that it was the booster wearing off, but comparing to e.g. Grip-S Europe or whatever rubber tuner with Falco Tempo Long Booster the effect is surprisingly quick. It's actually even quicker then for Tenergy, or at least with Tenergy the difference is less obvious. I'm still in favor of Bluefire M2 though...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/13/2012 at 5:39pm
IT seems to me that on pure longevity grounds, unless you boost, nothing seems to match Tenergy.  The story is getting awfully familiar...
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hookumsnivy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/13/2012 at 5:45pm
Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

IT seems to me that on pure longevity grounds, unless you boost, nothing seems to match Tenergy.  The story is getting awfully familiar...

Hooray, my patience (procrastination) is paying off :)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vutiendat1337 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/13/2012 at 6:58pm
guys, you are killing me. I just ordered 2 sheets of BFs and now you are telling me that its "tenergy-like" performance only lasts for 2 weeks or so and after that it requires boosting? I never boosted nor I ever will. This is a sad day for me, folks. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote janekb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/13/2012 at 8:12pm
I play m1 on TBS its very good rubber with great spin,but after while performance of th rubber deacreasing its harder to lift under spin balls,sometimes i feel like I did everythink right but ball goes to net.Last night i have chance to play with friends T 05 and 05 is way better rubber in every department .But the price diffrence is obvious.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote popperlocker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/13/2012 at 8:38pm
Originally posted by High_Arc High_Arc wrote:

Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Originally posted by High_Arc High_Arc wrote:

Did anyone else notice:

BlueFire M2 (probably not only M2) gets quite a bit harder the more you play with it.

It feels sort of airy and soft on first use (and incredibly spinny), and then it gets harder. The process saturates after about two weeks or so. I personally prefer it when it's almost new, say on third and fourth day of use. The behavior is pretty similar to Tenergy, and I also prefer Tenergy almost new over brand new.
 
That's the booster wearing off.  The loss has been discussed earlier on this thread and elsewhere.


I assumed that it was the booster wearing off, but comparing to e.g. Grip-S Europe or whatever rubber tuner with Falco Tempo Long Booster the effect is surprisingly quick. It's actually even quicker then for Tenergy, or at least with Tenergy the difference is less obvious. I'm still in favor of Bluefire M2 though...

For me, after 2-4 weeks, the hardness feels about the same and it's still really fast. However, I think it plays a little better brand new, a tad bit more explosive. Don't worry vutiendat, it's still a great rubber. Let's see if it's still good after 3-6 months. If it is, it's a true Tenergy replacement. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote popperlocker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/13/2012 at 8:44pm
Originally posted by janekb janekb wrote:

I play m1 on TBS its very good rubber with great spin,but after while performance of th rubber deacreasing its harder to lift under spin balls,sometimes i feel like I did everythink right but ball goes to net.Last night i have chance to play with friends T 05 and 05 is way better rubber in every department .But the price diffrence is obvious.

How long have you been using bluefire? Also, how long is "after a while the performance decreases"? Few weeks? a month? longer?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote janekb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/13/2012 at 9:14pm
I would say after one month rubber is not the same,I mean its still good but not as good like at the first.Sponge seams to became harder.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote popperlocker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/13/2012 at 9:51pm
Originally posted by janekb janekb wrote:

I would say after one month rubber is not the same,I mean its still good but not as good like at the first.Sponge seams to became harder.

Interesting. I'm excited to see how it plays after a month. Currently, topspin and no spin shots are amazing, consistent, and controlled. Backspin looping is good, but sometimes too good, if you know what I mean(flies off the table at times). I wonder if it will tame down, and allow for bigger swings, but then short and passive swings may get more difficult.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carryboy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/14/2012 at 12:02am
I had a chance to play with M3 over the weekend. A brief hit really as I asked this guy at a tournament If I could try his setup with Bluefire M3 on the forehand. It is a nice control rubber with good spin, but I really could not use it. I found it a bit too soft for my forehand. I had a hit with M1 on the same setup that another guy had and WOW!!, what a difference, a lovely driving rubber and very spinny. M1 really felt good and I plan on trying a new used sheet on a Waldner Legend which I am currently using M2 on.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote High_Arc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/14/2012 at 4:01am
Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

IT seems to me that on pure longevity grounds, unless you boost, nothing seems to match Tenergy.  The story is getting awfully familiar...
 
I would not necessarily say that M2 is less durable than Tenergy. I just have the impression that the difference between a brand new M2 and an e.g. 1 month old M2 is larger than between a new Tenergy and a one month old Tenergy.
 
I actually have the impression that a one month old M2 is closer to a one month old T05 than a new M2 to a new T05, if this makes any sense.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/14/2012 at 6:33am
Originally posted by High_Arc High_Arc wrote:

Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

IT seems to me that on pure longevity grounds, unless you boost, nothing seems to match Tenergy.  The story is getting awfully familiar...
 
I would not necessarily say that M2 is less durable than Tenergy. I just have the impression that the difference between a brand new M2 and an e.g. 1 month old M2 is larger than between a new Tenergy and a one month old Tenergy.
 
I actually have the impression that a one month old M2 is closer to a one month old T05 than a new M2 to a new T05, if this makes any sense.
 
Well, that is the question we are all waiting to answer - after 3 months and even 6 months, since most of us do not want to change our rubbers often, does M2 perform like a 6 month old Tenergy, which tends to perform astonishingly well...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote High_Arc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/14/2012 at 9:11am
Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Originally posted by High_Arc High_Arc wrote:

Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

IT seems to me that on pure longevity grounds, unless you boost, nothing seems to match Tenergy.  The story is getting awfully familiar...
 
I would not necessarily say that M2 is less durable than Tenergy. I just have the impression that the difference between a brand new M2 and an e.g. 1 month old M2 is larger than between a new Tenergy and a one month old Tenergy.
 
I actually have the impression that a one month old M2 is closer to a one month old T05 than a new M2 to a new T05, if this makes any sense.
 
Well, that is the question we are all waiting to answer - after 3 months and even 6 months, since most of us do not want to change our rubbers often, does M2 perform like a 6 month old Tenergy, which tends to perform astonishingly well...
 
Get your point Wink
 
Surface durability seems about the same as T05, perhaps slightly less, but clearly more than T64 (again, judging on the basis of one month of use...). The process of getting harder seemed to end after say two weeks, similar to Tenergy.
 
But I will never be able to say how it performs after 6 months because some mental illness causes me to replace rubbers at least every two months Embarrassed
 
However, if you keep your Tenergy for six months and are happy with it I would say it makes a lot of sense to just stick to it.
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/14/2012 at 10:20am
Originally posted by High_Arc High_Arc wrote:

 
Get your point Wink
 
Surface durability seems about the same as T05, perhaps slightly less, but clearly more than T64 (again, judging on the basis of one month of use...). The process of getting harder seemed to end after say two weeks, similar to Tenergy.
 
But I will never be able to say how it performs after 6 months because some mental illness causes me to replace rubbers at least every two months Embarrassed
 
However, if you keep your Tenergy for six months and are happy with it I would say it makes a lot of sense to just stick to it.
 
 
 
No, not mental illness - you are too good a player from your video to deal with lower rubber performance - for me, a better rubber doesn't make a huge difference - I can play almost as well with untuned Mark V as with Bluefire as with Juic 999 Turbo.  Hopefully, that will change, but right now, I just want something that will last - tired of experimenting.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote slevin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/14/2012 at 11:33am
I replaced my T05 max on FH with a new M2 max (& also replaced my old black M1 2.0 with a new red M1 2.0 on BH). Played with it for a couple of weeks. I did not like M2 on the 1st couple of days and contemplated replacing it back with the T05. Now, though, I love it and shall probably sell of my T05s.

Regarding comparisons between T05 and M2:
1. M2 felt softer and all boostered up! At first, I did not like the sound (I don't like the click sounds from tuned soft rubbers) but then grew used to it.
2. For my strokes, M2 was, on average, faster. Perhaps, very good / fast players shall find T05 faster (it has extreme non-linear catapault). I think it varies from sheet to sheet & their speeds are close enough.
3. T05 is very, very easy to loop with. M2 is even easier to loop with! Its less non-linear catapault helps. However, I feel that M2 loops are a bit easier to block.
4. Serves: I think T05 is a bit better at it (rubber bites vs that liquidy feel of M2). But I've only used M2 for a couple of weeks and I might become better at serving with it
5. M2 is better at receiving serves (slightly less susceptible to spin) and smashing (more linear)
6. Slow loops: T05 is better
7. Driving: M2 is better

I would characterize M2 as a very good control rubber. Way better than S2. Very close to T05. I agree with High_Arc: if most players tried out T05 and M2 for the 1st time, I think they'd prefer M2.

Now regarding the difference between M2 and M1:
If I can characterize M2 as a cross between T05 and T05FX (though mostly with T05 charactistics), I'd classify M1 as a cross between T05 and S1: it has S1's speed with T05's spin & throw angle.

They satisfy different demands: 

A lot of players wanted a rubber that plays like T05 (in terms of throw angle & spin) but has a harder sponge and is faster (supposedly like the T05 version some pros use). M1 is for them albeit at half the price.
M2 satisfies those who want T05's characteristics at at a cheaper price.

Another important item of note: red vs black. I can confirm that red M1 is very similar in grip as the black M1 (contrary to reports that the black version is much better than the red).

My M1 2.0 and M2 max rubbers weighed the same (both 68g uncut).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LOOPMEISTER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/14/2012 at 12:30pm
Nice review Slevin.

Generally speaking, though, Blufire is not half the price of Tenergy... $60 v $80.

Half the price would be Vega Pro. $38 v $80

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hookumsnivy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/14/2012 at 12:32pm
Originally posted by LOOPMEISTER LOOPMEISTER wrote:

Nice review Slevin.

Generally speaking, though, Blufire is not half the price of Tenergy... $60 v $80.

Half the price would be Vega Pro. $38 v $80


It is if you're getting from the guy on the forum asking 50euros for any 2 donic rubbers
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Anton Chigurh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/14/2012 at 12:34pm
Originally posted by hookumsnivy hookumsnivy wrote:

Originally posted by LOOPMEISTER LOOPMEISTER wrote:

Nice review Slevin.

Generally speaking, though, Blufire is not half the price of Tenergy... $60 v $80.

Half the price would be Vega Pro. $38 v $80


It is if you're getting from the guy on the forum asking 50euros for any 2 donic rubbers

Also, TTNPP: Bluefire M1 and M2 = $38


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LOOPMEISTER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/14/2012 at 12:36pm
Originally posted by hookumsnivy hookumsnivy wrote:

It is if you're getting from the guy on the forum asking 50euros for any 2 donic rubbers

No idea how trustworthy, legitimate, temporary, etc. that source is, and hence why I said generally speakingTongue
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LOOPMEISTER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/14/2012 at 12:38pm
TTNPP is LOLZ to me, sorry.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Anton Chigurh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/14/2012 at 12:39pm
Originally posted by LOOPMEISTER LOOPMEISTER wrote:

TTNPP is LOLZ to me, sorry.

No need to be sorry. I don't run it. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote slevin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/14/2012 at 12:46pm
I've bought Bluefires from both TTNPP and Tibike without any issues.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote j-bo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/14/2012 at 1:08pm
Grrrr.......after reading the thread... I want to try the M2 for forehand.

I am using Vega Pro now in 2.0, any comparisons?

And....how about BH bluefire? I am using Vega Europe 2.0 and really like it. Would the M2 or M3 be a good bh rubber that is comparable to the Europe, or?

I am not sure if I want to change the BH rubber, but for the price of 2 donic rubbers from tibike, it's hard to pass up.

These are on a Donic Epox Powerallaround blade.


Edited by j-bo - 11/14/2012 at 1:09pm
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