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TIBHAR Evolution rubber FX-P, EL-P, MX-S, MX-P |
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slevin
Premier Member Joined: 03/15/2012 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 3602 |
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thanks Debraj. Is Aurus similar to Rakza 7 in anyway or is it very different?
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debraj
Premier Member Joined: 06/04/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3369 |
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i liked playing aurus more than playing rakza 7.
Aurus has more power spin on loopdrives....also better behaved over the table. Actually aurus shines in all departments...the only issue i had was that after a few weeks aurus is not as easy to open loops with. you need a perfect forward stroke contact.. and since you are not always perfect in a game.. i ended up losing 1 or 2 opening loops while not best position. you can always argue on practice and all... but i can argue that rakza 9 allows me to do that even with same level from practice. :) And our clubs best player is kicking it bigtime with 1Q-XD, replacing his H3N Prov.. sorry i don't want to distract this thread further from evolution. i'm also interested to know more about evolution (even though i feel that most of it is what i heard about bluefire). |
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Walee76
Member Joined: 11/03/2012 Status: Offline Points: 32 |
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I had cannot accept your posting. You are damaging my reputation. (1) I never claimed, that I am a professional player. I only wrote, that my son is a talented young player. And to call me a pro-spammer is an abuse! (2) I got the information about weights from a table tennis shop and shared this information with other table tennis players here! (3) I am proud about my review with good picture! If all forum members would make such good review postings, the forum would be much better. (4) I dissapeared for a few weeks? Is it a duty, to be every week here? I have a real life, sorry! And I am more active in ooakforum and I did write postings in that forum during this time and not here, amongst other things because the people are more friendly there! You can watch my profile there: http://ooakforum.com/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=8968 (5) "Have a good sales"? I am not a shop and I don´t make promotion for Tibhar or shops like nexy.com. Anybody can read my other postings in this forum. I am a neutral member and I am writing in all threads, where I can help with my experiences and knowledge, independent of all table tennis brands. And I newer made a secret out of it, that my son is sponsered by Tibhar since this year, I even wrote it by myself! I am very dissapointed and angry about this. This is not fair. Please look at my postings in ooak forum: http://ooakforum.com/search.php?author_id=8968&sr=posts And then you can again think about your posting. kind regards, Walee |
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ttping85
Gold Member Joined: 04/09/2012 Location: France Status: Offline Points: 1061 |
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Having tested MX-P and M2 both in max and both in black I can that they are quite similar but I can tell you that biggest differences between both are -hardness> MX-P is much harder than M2 so maybe it is similar in hardness with M1 -dwell-time> M2 is bouncier so dwell time on the MX-P is much longer. -sensitivity to incoming spin> MX-P is less sensitive to incoming spin so you have more control in blocking, counter-looping and returning serves. -weight> MX-P is heavier than M2 about 3-4gr for the same cut (of course that can vary depending on the sheet you get If somebody could compare MX-P with M1 it would be great. From what I remember the differences would the same as with the M2 except maybe hardness.
About the whole question whether Evolution is making an end to Tenergy supremacy or not.
I believe it might be adopted by quite a few Pro Players or half-pro Players because when you have the physical and technical skills than MX-P (the only one I tried personally) is really a great rubber with great speed, spin and control. But amateur players will have harder time to use its speed and especially its spin if you compare to Tenergy but might be seduced by its control and insensitivity to incoming spin.
A French pro-player playing in the 1st French Pro-League (Pro A) sponsored by Butterfly and playing with T05 tested the MX-P and had the wow-effect!!! He really liked the MX-P. I was not surprised because he is the kind of player who almost always plays full strokes and has an amazing arm speed. He felt he could put more spin in his top spins (strong full strokes). He also felt he could put more spin in his serve because of longer dwell-time but again the way he hits the ball at his serve is really fast and his serves are anyway extremely spinny. I believe that with gentle stroke serves with Tenergy will be spinnier than the MX-P. What he didn't like is the hardness, the weight (his bat with one T05 on the other side was heavier than usual and unbalanced) and he actually didn't like the insensitivity to incoming spin in blocking. He also found the MX-P in blocking less regular in the way it reacts to the ball compared to Tenergy so he didnt feel secure with it. But maybe it's just because he is used to T05. But he found that backhand block-spin was easier and better than with T05.
Anyway the feel and the spin of Evolution is not Tenergy-like but the way its speed is slow in passive strokes and gets faster and full strokes is somehow Tenergy-like.
About the question whether Evolution is better than all the other rubbers released recently?
I read on the German tt forum that a whole 3rd/4th division team playing either with T05 or T64 so far switched to either to MX-P or EL-P. Because of financial restriction of their club they have been trying to find alternatives to Tenergy amongst all the new rubbers (Rasant, Bluefire, 1Q-XD…) but the only ones they were actually satisfied with were the Evolution which they found not only to be a good alternative to Tenergy but also better in many aspects.
Again this is only showing the possible great potential of Evolution rubbers amongst Pro or half-pro players. For amateur players it would be interesting to see how many will start to adopt Evolution as soon as it will be available in all the tt stores.
In France Bluefire starts to be widespred among amateur players but also half-pro players playing in 3rd division but I don't know about the two highest Professional leagues. |
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My list of blades for sale https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1wYci9423byd3X43DhSsaXOmysNKMfK-RnPWSo3UfpkQ/edit?usp=drivesdk
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jonyer1980
Gold Member Joined: 07/30/2008 Location: Spain Status: Offline Points: 1600 |
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I feel so sorry if i ever hurt you, it wasn´t my intention, but i felt kinda dodgy you post with all that info. We´re quite used to those typicall cavern trolls that visit us rather ofter to post loads and tons of unuseless spam&crap. Best wishes, Jonyer.
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Rosewood V FL
Nittaku Fastarc G1-FH Stiga DNA Pro-S MAX BH Avoid any Butterfly stuff... at abusive prices. Raw power without control means nothing |
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Walee76
Member Joined: 11/03/2012 Status: Offline Points: 32 |
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I like it, to test all kind of rubbers and blades. We have a table tennis competiton table in our house and if I cannot play together with my son, I have a good robot to test rackets. This is my passion I have one question to you: Can you compare the Evolution MX-P with the Grip-S Europe what you are using? Thank you! |
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jonyer1980
Gold Member Joined: 07/30/2008 Location: Spain Status: Offline Points: 1600 |
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[/QUOTE]Thank you, Jonyer.
I accept your excuse and I hope it was a real apology, without irony or a hint of sarcasm. I think if you did read my other postings in mytabletennis.net and ooakforum.com discussion forums, you will see, that I try to give good recommendations to all users when ever I know something about the blades and rubbers.
[/QUOTE]I like it, to test all kind of rubbers and blades. We have a table tennis competiton table in our house and if I cannot play together with my son, I have a good robot to test rackets. This is my passion I have one question to you: Can you compare the Evolution MX-P with the Grip-S Europe what you are using? Thank you! I haven´t tried yet any of the Evolution series, it hasn´t arrived to Spain yet so it´s hard to me to make an extensive comparison. So far, hhe only one who has tried is Vladi who lives and owns a TT shop with a TT friend of him, a former national champion, but obviously they aren´t given commercial versions, off-the shelves, just best quality selected premium sheets for him. Honestly i am going to quit playing GSE because of QC´S . It´s like going to a Casino, you can get a good one, but also theres a big chance to get a BAD sheet. I could forgive this on crappy cheap chinese rubber, but i can´t tolerate this quality issues on a 40€ sheet relabelled by Thibar. I hope this helps :) |
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Rosewood V FL
Nittaku Fastarc G1-FH Stiga DNA Pro-S MAX BH Avoid any Butterfly stuff... at abusive prices. Raw power without control means nothing |
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Mickael
Silver Member Joined: 10/30/2011 Location: World Status: Offline Points: 794 |
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Guys there so much spin in tenergy in all kind of strokes. About its price, I buy it for 130 usd , play two months and resell it for 40 usd the pair, it makes it cheaper than any tensor out there and play with the best rubber ever created in table tennis history, even better than any speed glued high end rubber ten years ago. We play for the sport, the enjoyement, the competition that is what a good rubber coming from a great manufacturer with the highest quality control in the business of table tennis can really give you. Hope some day the competition would make a better rubber, but I doubt it.
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Butterfly Fransizka ZLC FL
Butterfly Dignics 05 2.1 FH Butterfly Tenergy 05 1.9 BH |
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ttping85
Gold Member Joined: 04/09/2012 Location: France Status: Offline Points: 1061 |
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Sorry but I don't think he wants to.
Link to te forum: http://forum.tt-news.de/ Link to the Evolution Rubber discussion: http://forum.tt-news.de/showthread.php?s=620e1cfdf55740d1a97f8dbf2bd6297a&t=129731 Link to the post about the team that switched: http://forum.tt-news.de/showthread.php?s=620e1cfdf55740d1a97f8dbf2bd6297a&t=129731&page=20
I like it, to test all kind of rubbers and blades. We have a table tennis competiton table in our house and if I cannot play together with my son, I have a good robot to test rackets. This is my passion I have one question to you: Can you compare the Evolution MX-P with the Grip-S Europe what you are using? Thank you!
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My list of blades for sale https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1wYci9423byd3X43DhSsaXOmysNKMfK-RnPWSo3UfpkQ/edit?usp=drivesdk
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dashmista
Super Member Joined: 12/19/2010 Location: US Status: Offline Points: 411 |
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I ordered FX-P and EL-P and have been testing it recently. I find EL-P to be a sort of 64 05 hybrid and FX-P to be similar to Sriver, perhaps even more insensitive to incoming spin.
If you guys want more pictures, I gathered some here: Edited by dashmista - 12/13/2012 at 9:37pm |
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Table Tennis Equipment Review FB EJ4LYFE at powerpingpong.com for
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right2niru
Silver Member Joined: 11/10/2011 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 820 |
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I can tell you this much - playing against somebody who has MX-P on FH or BH it is just like playing anybody against Tenergy series of rubbers; The MX-P version produces amazing spin even on short strokes like a push / chop ... i do not know if these rubbers are just tuned in which case they may not behave consistently over a period of time once the tuning wears out ..
Edited by right2niru - 12/14/2012 at 1:56am |
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ZJK SZLC |5Q+
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Carbon TT
Gold Member Joined: 06/20/2005 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 1115 |
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Could you (or anyone for that matter) compare the hardness to the ESN scale? The hardness's listed on Paddle Palace are very unusual and since it is made in Japan it might be nice to know how they relate.
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Primorac Carbon
MX-P | EL-P |
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speaquinox
Gold Member Joined: 03/19/2007 Location: Turkey Status: Offline Points: 1742 |
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Who says it's made in Japan?
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Innerforce ALC, Glayzer / Rozena
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ttping85
Gold Member Joined: 04/09/2012 Location: France Status: Offline Points: 1061 |
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It is said on the package like any othe product
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My list of blades for sale https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1wYci9423byd3X43DhSsaXOmysNKMfK-RnPWSo3UfpkQ/edit?usp=drivesdk
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AMonteiro
Platinum Member Joined: 01/30/2007 Location: Brazil Status: Offline Points: 2042 |
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There's no Made in Japan on package, sponge or topsheet..
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Dynaryz AGR /Yasaka Goiabao 5 / Dynaryz AGR
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Anton Chigurh
Premier Member Joined: 09/15/2009 Status: Offline Points: 3962 |
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I've been curious about this for a while, too.
It looks suspiciously like a Tensor sponge but others are claiming it's Japanese in origin. If anyone could legitimately verify (i.e., not speculation or hearsay, but some sort of label, marking, or official statement from a Tibhar representative, etc.) one way or another the origin of this rubber, that would be super. I'm not interested in investing any more money on Tensors but I'd be happy to try this rubber if it is indeed of Japanese origin. |
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Neo H3 40D| Offensive S | Tenergy 80
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danhs
Super Member Joined: 07/04/2005 Status: Offline Points: 445 |
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That's a significant statement. It appears that ESN's repeated failures to produce a rubber that equals Tenergy (I know it's debatable) are basically free advertising for Butterfly. All the tensors are so hyped with each new one being the greatest thing since sliced bread, but T05 still rules. At some point (soon) ESN is gonna need to deliver or risk losing respect. Hmmm, maybe it really did take Butterfly 10 years to develop Tenergy.... |
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Anton Chigurh
Premier Member Joined: 09/15/2009 Status: Offline Points: 3962 |
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Since I'm pretty much a middling TT player, at best, I'm not sure how significant my opinion is in the scheme of things. I think the Bluefire series is the best Tensor put forth so far, but even then it tends to be somewhat erratic in its behavior much like (but to a lesser extent than) all the Tensors prior to it. Yes, Tenergy has some "catapult" to it. It can make a subpar shot look terrible and it can make a mediocre shot look excellent... but it is still, in my opinion, a more honest rubber than any of the Tensors. My reason for the above statement is that I find Japanese rubbers in general to be more honest and intuitive than Tensors. Of course, hard, tacky Chinese rubbers are the most honest but I (and apparently most people) don't like them on my backhand. Edited by Anton Chigurh - 12/14/2012 at 6:17pm |
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Neo H3 40D| Offensive S | Tenergy 80
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danhs
Super Member Joined: 07/04/2005 Status: Offline Points: 445 |
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BH-Man
Premier Member Joined: 02/05/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5042 |
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Anton, you have articulated your point very well.
Over time, I see you seem to do this exceptionally more than the rest of us. I used to like those tacky Chinese rubbers on BH and I can still make just about anything work on BH wing. Most of the stuff close that category simply feels and sounds like a brick at impact, which I absolutely do not like. I use a very controlable Allround OFF rubber on BH that does everything good, but nothing exceptional. I use Dawei XP 2008 Super Power 40 degree 2.2 on BH wing. Heaps of control. I can use a rocket, but I can make very fast and sudden shots on BH wing with this rubber and land it moar often still with heavy spin, even if it is not T05 level, it is more than enough. T05 is so great at coping with topspin and producing your own topspin from underspin balls, nothing rivals T05 in counterlooping ease at its throw angle, calibra is king at low throw. T05 priced itself out of my ballpark so Aurus it is for Fh play. T05 gives a player a disproportionate level of spin for a slow to medium stroke and shines best on 3/4 to full swings. I have never gotton on the Tensor wave, although i slapped a tensor from Cole on my Achuma OX LP test bat and even last night enjoyed a few matches with it as a defender/blocker suddenly flipping the switch to atack, which is sometimes a blast. |
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Korea Foreign Table Tennis Club
Search for us on Facebook: koreaforeignttc |
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debraj
Premier Member Joined: 06/04/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3369 |
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anton... i played with bluefire m1 , m2... and while i liked the speed and dwell.. i too thought they have some directionality problem... making them a little inconsisten or unpredicatble in some shots...
but i think that problem is well addressed addressed now... rakza 9 has same feeling but crisp and predictable ball throw... exactly mimics tenergy feeling... but faster. i think evolution should be in same category... i.e they DONT chew the ball so much that while spitting it out they forget which direction they came from. ;)
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ttping85
Gold Member Joined: 04/09/2012 Location: France Status: Offline Points: 1061 |
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True there is just Japanese as the main language everywhere and hardness, spin and speed are indicated according to Japanese Standards. The question is: would Tibhar dare to pretend through all this Japanese stuff on the package that Evolution is made in Japan while it is actually not?
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My list of blades for sale https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1wYci9423byd3X43DhSsaXOmysNKMfK-RnPWSo3UfpkQ/edit?usp=drivesdk
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batt
Super Member Joined: 10/08/2011 Status: Offline Points: 138 |
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But you use Aurus which is a Tensor itself...
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AMonteiro
Platinum Member Joined: 01/30/2007 Location: Brazil Status: Offline Points: 2042 |
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On table tennis, any Japanese Made product means quality. When a company has a Made in Japan product they indicate it with a "Made in Japan" mark.. not japanese names all over the package.. In a persuit of Tenergy, Tibhar copied the sponge color, thickness golden sticker, put japanese hardness scale but forgot to make the rubber in Japan!! Ask them why... |
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Dynaryz AGR /Yasaka Goiabao 5 / Dynaryz AGR
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batt
Super Member Joined: 10/08/2011 Status: Offline Points: 138 |
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You've put forth a convincing argument. I studied the packaging and the pictures of the rubber. If Evolution really is made in Japan, it would have a "Made in Japan" label on its packaging and the rubber itself like all Japanese rubbers.
BTW, do you know why Tibhar doesn't make Evolution in Japan? Is it due to cost? Is it because ESN has a lot of experience copying Tenergy? I really don't know.
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AMonteiro
Platinum Member Joined: 01/30/2007 Location: Brazil Status: Offline Points: 2042 |
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I would like to know! Don't get me wrong... this Evolution line can be even better than any other rubber in th world.. I really don't care. I also think that if the consumers have a cheaper alternative, with same quality, to the leading rubber on market, that's great.. My only question is about where is it made.. On this case I don't buy all this japanese letters on cover and all that stuff.. |
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Dynaryz AGR /Yasaka Goiabao 5 / Dynaryz AGR
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jonyer1980
Gold Member Joined: 07/30/2008 Location: Spain Status: Offline Points: 1600 |
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The point is: At the beginning, you could only get it from Nexy.com (Korea) a few months before their releasing date. But now it´s coming close to the worldwide release, the first place were you can get commercial sheet apart from from NEXY Korea, is just a german website. Suspicious?
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Rosewood V FL
Nittaku Fastarc G1-FH Stiga DNA Pro-S MAX BH Avoid any Butterfly stuff... at abusive prices. Raw power without control means nothing |
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NextLevel
Forum Moderator Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14844 |
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Debraj, The way you switch rubber affiliations (a honeymoon period followed by a bad breakup) makes you a very unreliable source of information for opinionated rubber performance characteristics. |
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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Mickael
Silver Member Joined: 10/30/2011 Location: World Status: Offline Points: 794 |
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Guys I was mislead by Walee76 like all of us . I read his post here and ooakforum a copy paste of course, he claims it is made in Japan, he misled us we owe him a big apology. Of course no one would trust his posts anymore. He lost his credibility. Read this post
http://www.tabletennisdaily.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?4067-Tibhar-Evolution-A-Twin-of-Donic-Bluefire! Then read his claims !!! "The rubbers are now on the way from Japan to Europe and USA by sea freight. It could maybe took 2 months, until the rubbers will arrive there and will be on stock in the shops in Europe and USA. Maybe Tibhar will also order some Evolution rubbers in Japan by air cargo, then some Evolutions would be available earlier, but this can not be a large amount." Very misleading! |
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Butterfly Fransizka ZLC FL
Butterfly Dignics 05 2.1 FH Butterfly Tenergy 05 1.9 BH |
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ttping85
Gold Member Joined: 04/09/2012 Location: France Status: Offline Points: 1061 |
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and I think at one moment that german website censored all comments that were about doubts on Evolution being made in Japan :)
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My list of blades for sale https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1wYci9423byd3X43DhSsaXOmysNKMfK-RnPWSo3UfpkQ/edit?usp=drivesdk
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