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Anton Chigurh View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Anton Chigurh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/26/2012 at 1:55am
I am also compelled to add that I don't think it's a coincidence that Seamoon sounds very close to another word. The colors are obviously not similar, but beyond that Seamoon is some slimy, sticky stuff. 

If I find out some Chinese dudes sold me some dirty baby batter I'm going to be very upset.  Nuke Sick Dead

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stavros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/26/2012 at 3:05am
Do you think that Falco Long booster is much better than Falco Tempo booster ?
I see that the first is much more expensive.


Edited by Stavros - 11/26/2012 at 3:09am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GoldenDragoon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/26/2012 at 6:31am
I didn't even know there was more than one version. Mine has both names in its title.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stavros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/26/2012 at 6:54am
Originally posted by GoldenDragoon GoldenDragoon wrote:

I didn't even know there was more than one version. Mine has both names in its title.

1. Falco TEMPO booster
2. Falco TEMPO Long booster

So, I suppose yours is the second one.

What's your impression of the booster ?
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Anton Chigurh View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Anton Chigurh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/27/2012 at 1:43am
Ummm... over 24 hours now and the rubber is still curled nearly in half. 

Any idea when it may begin to flatten out a bit so I can glue it?


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Hans Regenkurt View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hans Regenkurt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/27/2012 at 2:45am
Around 5 days. They may not be fully flat though.

Maybe you get better control when you put the sheet on when it does not dome anymore.
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Anton Chigurh View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Anton Chigurh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/27/2012 at 2:57am
Originally posted by Hans Regenkurt Hans Regenkurt wrote:

Around 5 days. They may not be fully flat though.

Maybe you get better control when you put the sheet on when it does not dome anymore.

5 days?! Yikes... Thanks for the input.

I only put two applications of Seamoon on two different sheets. I wanted to see if the boosting "evened out" the inconsistencies between DHS top sheets. So far it does feel like it did the job. However, I wasn't anticipating waiting 5 days for the dome to go down. I may try to glue a sheet before then and put it under some text books overnight and hope it sticks.

In the future--assuming I like the outcome--I'll only apply one layer.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Imago Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/27/2012 at 3:32am
What if we boost both the sponge and the topsheet? Would they expand simultaneously without curving? The idea of waiting 5 or 10 days for the dome to disappear negates the meaning of boosting, esp., if the effect lasts 10 or 15 days.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Anton Chigurh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/27/2012 at 3:41am
Believe it or not, I don't really care about the sponge. I find TG3 Neo to be plenty fast. However, as I mentioned above, the top sheet from sheet to sheet varies. Some are very tacky, some are almost slick. 

I noticed in the past that when I tried tuning and super priming the surface of the top sheet changed too, to a more consistent semi-tackiness that played nicely. I was experimenting with a couple sheets of commercial TG3 Neo (whose top sheets vary in just the way I mentioned) to see if by tuning them their top sheets would even out a bit.

So even if I have to wait 5 days for a sponge effect that only lasts 10 days total, it's still worth it for me if I've found a reliable way to tune the top sheet just how I want it... if that makes sense. 

(Or... I could just stick with my TopENERGY Soft that is consistent and performs very well... but where is the fun in that? Tongue)


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Imago Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/27/2012 at 3:47am
Treating the topsheet with baby oil (daily for two weeks) will give you the same effect. Probably you have an old rubber to try with the booster applied topsheetely. Wink One layer should do the trick.

Edited by Imago - 11/27/2012 at 3:49am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote strongpong Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/27/2012 at 6:09am
After getting frustrated with the short life span of the factory tuning in Tenergy, I tried to restore the tuning once it wore off.
 
I first tried Falco Tempo Unlimited which is the long life water based speed glue. One thick thick layer did the trick, it played pretty much as new. However, being a water based product affected the sponge in some way such that once the it wore off, the sponge went very dry and brittle as was as good as dead.
 
Next I tried the Falco Long Booster. To restore the original tuning of Tenrgy 05 and 64 one thin layer was perfect and it lasted the life of the top sheet (about 5-6 weeks for me). I have tried 2 very thin layers and it is still very good but just starting to get a hint of being soft. I expect 2 thick layers would be too much and make it mushy.
 
I have tried the Long Booster on Mark V. It did increase the power but didn't add much to the spin making for a very flat trajectory. I think the older rubbers need the VOC's to make them really spin the ball well.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote simon_xuan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/27/2012 at 6:14am
I got an accident when using Paraffin oil to treat my 39 degree H3 pro, it leaked over to half of the topsheet. I thought it was ruined since I saw uneven surface and swollen dots showed up. But somehow they went away most of it in a week and the new "treated" surface appears more suple and lightly tackier than before. I  thought PO and Baby Oil have similar ingredients, but that accident may have some new result than unexpected.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote strongpong Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/27/2012 at 6:18am
Originally posted by simon_xuan simon_xuan wrote:

I got an accident when using Paraffin oil to treat my 39 degree H3 pro, it leaked over to half of the topsheet. I thought it was ruined since I saw uneven surface and swollen dots showed up. But somehow they went away most of it in a week and the new "treated" surface appears more suple and lightly tackier than before. I  thought PO and Baby Oil have similar ingredients, but that accident may have some new result than unexpected.
 
Isn't this how most scientific breakthroughs are made?  LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Imago Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/27/2012 at 7:24am
Baby Oil is at least 60% PO.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GoldenDragoon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/27/2012 at 8:26am
Originally posted by Stavros Stavros wrote:


Originally posted by GoldenDragoon GoldenDragoon wrote:

I didn't even know there was more than one version. Mine has both names in its title.

1. Falco TEMPO booster
2. Falco TEMPO Long booster
So, I suppose yours is the second one.
What's your impression of the booster ?


I just checked and yes it is Tempo Long Booster.

Compared to seamoon it gives very similar performance however it is less "bouncy". I definatley prefer it to seamoon as you can use more speed in your stroke when you lightly brush balls without the tenergy effect of the ball flying long but I might try using less of both and seeing how it goes.

Both last at full strength (same as when you glue the sheet on) for at least one week.

Best point about Falco though is how loud it makes M3. You almost need earplugs. Best indicator there is for a quality shot (aside from you opponent not getting anywhere near the ball).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rich215 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/27/2012 at 1:39pm
Originally posted by Imago Imago wrote:

What if we boost both the sponge and the topsheet? Would they expand simultaneously without curving? The idea of waiting 5 or 10 days for the dome to disappear negates the meaning of boosting, esp., if the effect lasts 10 or 15 days.


Imago,  i think it really depends on specific rubber compounds.  I noticed with the long boost that the Mark V topsheet seemed to change and expand more than the Rakza's did.  If a rubber top ply is thicker or has different amount of natural rubber in it....may be why some do not expand as much as the sponge in percentage.  This might be why you see such large domes on the H3's and various other rubbers with thicker top sheets?   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rich215 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/27/2012 at 1:42pm
Originally posted by GoldenDragoon GoldenDragoon wrote:

 
Best point about Falco though is how loud it makes M3. You almost need earplugs. Best indicator there is for a quality shot (aside from you opponent not getting anywhere near the ball).


Even my 2.0 Mark V's got louder with Falco Long B. 

Also one thing I really like with using the Falco product.....it is very easy to work with.....spreads out nice and smooth and also doesn't smell at all. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote simon_xuan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/27/2012 at 11:16pm
I actually summarized it down that Paraffin Oil (baby oil) is good for Hard sponge (Chinese) tuning, but the softened sponge may lose bounciness over time. That's poor man's Ferrari if I don't want to buy Seamoon. Falco Booster is great for cake-sponge rubbers, maybe some traditional ones as well, but not as effective for ESN High density ones, such is Sinus and Nimbus VIP. Neither is it good for Carbo cake-sponge, such as for XIOM Omega ones. I heard Dandoy is the only effective one for such rubbers. I tried hard to flatten these reverse dome but not successful yet. Maybe that's the end of the life span for these rubbers I can tune or rescue.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote swampthing Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/27/2012 at 11:28pm
Originally posted by Imago Imago wrote:

What if we boost both the sponge and the topsheet? Would they expand simultaneously without curving? The idea of waiting 5 or 10 days for the dome to disappear negates the meaning of boosting, esp., if the effect lasts 10 or 15 days.

I thought that the dome is a desired part of the two major aspects of boosting.  The first being the affect of the booster on the sponge resulting in a better tangential effect and the second is the dome which results in a light tension in the top sheet when glued flat resulting in an increase in speed.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Anton Chigurh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/28/2012 at 1:36am
Checking in with my progress with Seamoon and TG3 Neo:

TG3 Neo, 39 degrees, with two layers of Haifu Seamoon booster. It curled notably (see my previous pictures) I let it rest for about 30 hours before gluing it. After gluing, I placed the blade under some heavy text books overnight to keep the edges from curling away from the blade too much. It worked.

The next day (today) I played with it. I glued it to my XIOM Offensive S. This is not the blade I normally use, but it is a blade I like a lot and am quite familiar with. The top sheet of the tuned rubber became notably tackier and grippier. The sponge played faster, but only in big shots. It was no bouncier in the short game, which is very nice. It is much spinnier all around. 

Unfortunately, the tuning lowered the throw of the rubber considerably (presumably by making it softer). The untuned TG3 Neo is not as dangerous (i.e., not as fast or as spinny) as the tuned TG3 Neo, but it's actually a bit easier to control and is easier to loop backspin with. 

There were pros and cons (faster, spinnier, and all around more dangerous, BUT lower throw, a little too soft in feel, and more prone to kill shots going long due to increased speed). To me, the cons outweigh the pros at this point. 

I think one way to remedy this is to try boosting a harder sheet (40 or 41 degrees) with slightly less booster. This will hopefully leave it feeling harder and throwing higher, but still provide the excellent spin and speed. 

I may try this in the future but for now I'll stick with my more controllable (but admittedly less dangerous) TopENERGY Soft. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stavros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/28/2012 at 2:10am
Japanese rubbers reacts better on boosters than German rubbers.
Boost TC especially, behaves very well because it doesn't shrink after some weeks, like most rubbers do.



Edited by Stavros - 11/28/2012 at 3:29am
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which rubbers have cake-sponge?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jobaumi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/28/2012 at 2:07pm
Originally posted by simon_xuan simon_xuan wrote:

I actually summarized it down that Paraffin Oil (baby oil) is good for Hard sponge (Chinese) tuning, but the softened sponge may lose bounciness over time. That's poor man's Ferrari if I don't want to buy Seamoon. Falco Booster is great for cake-sponge rubbers, maybe some traditional ones as well, but not as effective for ESN High density ones, such is Sinus and Nimbus VIP. Neither is it good for Carbo cake-sponge, such as for XIOM Omega ones. I heard Dandoy is the only effective one for such rubbers. I tried hard to flatten these reverse dome but not successful yet. Maybe that's the end of the life span for these rubbers I can tune or rescue.




which rubbers have cake sponge?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rich215 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/28/2012 at 3:01pm
Anton.....maybe just 1 layer of SM  would of been better on the TG3?    There could be a point of too much chemical addition all at once which causes to drastic of a change.   Almost like the way if you boost Tenergy too much it turns to mush and wont come back.  

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Anton Chigurh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/28/2012 at 3:19pm
Originally posted by Rich215 Rich215 wrote:

Anton.....maybe just 1 layer of SM  would of been better on the TG3?    There could be a point of too much chemical addition all at once which causes to drastic of a change.   Almost like the way if you boost Tenergy too much it turns to mush and wont come back.  



That may be the case. I boosted two sheets at once and the second one I haven't glued yet. I'll wait for the booster to evaporate a week or so and see how the rubber plays. Maybe if the effect wears off a bit the play will improve.

If not, I may experiment with another 39D with less booster and a 40 or 41D with slightly less booster.

I'm interested to find something that works because, despite some of the drawbacks, the rubber's play was quite promising. Just need to find that magical recipe. ;)

Also, H3 instead of TG3 might be the answer too. I have a friend visiting China who said he might be able to pick up a couple sheets of national H3 for a reasonable price.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hans Regenkurt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/28/2012 at 5:08pm
H3 should be a better option in every aspect.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote simon_xuan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/28/2012 at 5:42pm
Originally posted by jobaumi jobaumi wrote:

Originally posted by simon_xuan simon_xuan wrote:

I actually summarized it down that Paraffin Oil (baby oil) is good for Hard sponge (Chinese) tuning, but the softened sponge may lose bounciness over time. That's poor man's Ferrari if I don't want to buy Seamoon. Falco Booster is great for cake-sponge rubbers, maybe some traditional ones as well, but not as effective for ESN High density ones, such is Sinus and Nimbus VIP. Neither is it good for Carbo cake-sponge, such as for XIOM Omega ones. I heard Dandoy is the only effective one for such rubbers. I tried hard to flatten these reverse dome but not successful yet. Maybe that's the end of the life span for these rubbers I can tune or rescue.




which rubbers have cake sponge?
I nick-named those with pores, such as Tenergy, Acuda S1, Barracuda, etc. Tongue
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote simon_xuan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/28/2012 at 5:48pm
Originally posted by Anton Chigurh Anton Chigurh wrote:

Originally posted by Rich215 Rich215 wrote:

Anton.....maybe just 1 layer of SM  would of been better on the TG3?    There could be a point of too much chemical addition all at once which causes to drastic of a change.   Almost like the way if you boost Tenergy too much it turns to mush and wont come back.  



That may be the case. I boosted two sheets at once and the second one I haven't glued yet. I'll wait for the booster to evaporate a week or so and see how the rubber plays. Maybe if the effect wears off a bit the play will improve.

If not, I may experiment with another 39D with less booster and a 40 or 41D with slightly less booster.

I'm interested to find something that works because, despite some of the drawbacks, the rubber's play was quite promising. Just need to find that magical recipe. ;)

Also, H3 instead of TG3 might be the answer too. I have a friend visiting China who said he might be able to pick up a couple sheets of national H3 for a reasonable price.
I have similar experience that I don't like PO tuned H3 Pro 39 degree, but love the commercial H3 40 degree tuned. I suppose SM is better than PO. I feel the offset effect is the key to determine how you settle at the certain hardness level. If 1 degree less by applying 3 layers works, than that could be a rule of thumb. For those hard hitter and looper with H3, 41 degree may be a better starting point. Somehow, a couple of months down the road, I found the sponge kind of softened out, turn flabby.


Edited by simon_xuan - 11/28/2012 at 11:43pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote danhs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/29/2012 at 11:26am
Originally posted by Anton Chigurh Anton Chigurh wrote:

TG3 Neo, 39 degrees, with two layers of Haifu Seamoon booster. It curled notably (see my previous pictures) I let it rest for about 30 hours before gluing it. After gluing, I placed the blade under some heavy text books overnight to keep the edges from curling away from the blade too much. It worked...
Unfortunately, the tuning lowered the throw of the rubber considerably (presumably by making it softer). The untuned TG3 Neo is not as dangerous (i.e., not as fast or as spinny) as the tuned TG3 Neo, but it's actually a bit easier to control and is easier to loop backspin with...
There were pros and cons (faster, spinnier, and all around more dangerous, BUT lower throw, a little too soft in feel, and more prone to kill shots going long due to increased speed). To me, the cons outweigh the pros at this point. 

 My experience has been that the negative effects you describe (lowered throw especially), are much less extreme when you let the rubber flatten out before gluing it on. It will still be faster though, that's half the point of boosting in the first placeWink If you boost the rubber multiple times and let it flatten between each application, it ends up like a tensor. Insane speed but you need to loop using the sponge, the topsheet becomes so stretched that it only grips on solid contact. Incidentally, you do realize that the doming and eventual flattening is because the sponge expands much faster than the topsheet right? If you have a previously cut sheet of rubber that you boost and let sit till it flattens, the flat sheet will be quite a bit larger than the blade face. I've boosted sheets so much that after I took them off the blade and let them air out for a few months, they were a half inch too small all the way around! It takes about a month of boosting and waiting in between applications for this much effect though. The increase in speed is ridiculous though. 729 SST on a med speed blade played much faster than T05 on a Primorac carbon. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Anton Chigurh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/30/2012 at 1:19am
Problem solved, for the most part. All I had to do was wait a few days before applying the rubber. This second sheet, though faster and consequently a tad bit harder for me to control, doesn't have the same low throw issues the previous sheet did. It still feels a little bit too soft but nothing too bad. 

I still may try a 40D sheet but I'm very happy with this TG3 Neo/Seamoon combo now. 


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