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Boosters/Tuners: Your Results!

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Rich215 View Drop Down
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    Posted: 11/14/2012 at 12:19pm
In an effort to create a useful info base for effects and results of boosters:

PLEASE DO NOT POST WITH ANYTHING ABOUT RULES, ITTF, CHEATING, TOURNAMENTS, or other such things that are not about actual physical use of a substance on a rubber/sponge  IE, NO DERAILING!

Please post your results of various boosters and tuners on various rubbers/sponges here:




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AMonteiro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/14/2012 at 12:37pm

Using Falco Tempo Booster ( all max rubbers)

- Stiga Boost TC = Fantastic results (2 layers)

- Donic Baracuda = Good result (2 layers)

- Donic Acuda S1 = Good result (2 layers)

- Xiom Omega 4 Asia = Good result (2 layers) but got bubble in 4 days.

- Tibhar Genius = Too mushy with 2 layers, better unboosted or just one light coat

- Cornilleau Target 45° =  Too mushy with 2 layers, better unboosted or one light coat 

- Cornilleau Target 47,5° = Little reaction (2 layers)

- Cornilleau Pilot Advance = Very good result (2 layers)

- Butterfly Tenergy 05 = Fantastic results (1 layer when new / 2 layers on used rubber)



Edited by AMonteiro - 11/14/2012 at 12:38pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hans Regenkurt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/14/2012 at 2:26pm
My experience shoes that Seamoon makes euro rubbers a bit rigid with two layers, if I compare it to Falco Long Booster with two layers. The latter causes rubbers to be springier and maybe a bit softer, overall better control.

Very good results:

Donic Baracuda max - 2 layers of Haifu Seamoon, however it is even better with Falco

Sigma Pro max - reasonable effect, 2 layers of Seamoon makes it noticeably faster but with two layers of Falco Long it is fantastic

Donic Acuda S2 - 2 layers of Seamoon made it faster but did not fix its grabbing and throw problems, mediocre effect only

Tibhar Aurus 2.1 - 2 layers of Seamoon had a very good effecct but it is still not to my liking. Very good spin though on loops

Joola Phenix regular max - 2 layers of Falco did not help, it made the spin stronger and the control better on blocks but did not enhance the speed so it did not affect the overall performance by much (I tore the rubber when I was taking it off my bat and it is the first rubber in years that I have torn)

Bluefire M3 max - 2 layers of Seamoon had a good effect but did not make up for its softness, now trying it with Falco

RITC 729-08 ES: 4 layers of Seamoon, it curled into a tube. It is about Bluefire M2 in terms of hardness. Good speed but the booster did not fix the throw problem and it is still unusable for me.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bayttplayer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/14/2012 at 5:45pm

Falco Tempo long Booster on H3, 12 hour each time 4-6 layer, good result (Chinese Rubber basically not playable without boost).

Try the same on calibra LT, but not as much different as chinese rubber. For sure is much better, but those rubber already good enough for me without boost, so I don’t boost them anymore.

Innerforce-ZLC FL + H3 + T80

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/14/2012 at 7:02pm
Three coats of Dandoy Bio Boost on T05 2.1 mm, 24 hr in between applications.  Turned it to mush.  I hated it, it no longer had any of the qualities of T05.  I would never do it again.  Later I spoke to a professional player who laughed and said he would never use more than a single light coat, which he allows to dry overnight.

PS.  I put that sheet in a drawer and glued it back 6 months later, and while it was better, it was still not the usual T05.  It did something strange to the topsheet. 

Edited by Baal - 11/14/2012 at 7:03pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TurboZ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/14/2012 at 7:49pm
Are the results mentioned above with booster applied to topsheet or sponge or both when new? Or used for a while and remove rubber from blade and applied booster on sponge again? Or just leave rubber on blade and applied to topsheet alone? Sorry for all the questions as I am new to all these.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roundrobin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/14/2012 at 7:52pm
Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

Three coats of Dandoy Bio Boost on T05 2.1 mm, 24 hr in between applications.  Turned it to mush.  I hated it, it no longer had any of the qualities of T05.  I would never do it again.  Later I spoke to a professional player who laughed and said he would never use more than a single light coat, which he allows to dry overnight.

PS.  I put that sheet in a drawer and glued it back 6 months later, and while it was better, it was still not the usual T05.  It did something strange to the topsheet. 


I know at least a few players locally who treat their T05 top sheet with a "secret liquid" from Europe.  It must be one of those available liquids mentioned in this forum.  Their loops are indeed spinnier than those who use regular T05.  Their topsheets are almost tacky to the touch like DHS rubbers.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/14/2012 at 10:28pm
My professional friend played in Europe in a pretty high league.  He is actually a player that some people here would recognize but I am not going to "out" him for boosting.  His secret fluid was Dandoy, but maybe there is something better now.  He never mentioned treating the top sheet, though.

Edited by Baal - 11/14/2012 at 10:30pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AMonteiro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/15/2012 at 12:24am

Originally posted by TurboZ TurboZ wrote:

Are the results mentioned above with booster applied to topsheet or sponge or both when new? Or used for a while and remove rubber from blade and applied booster on sponge again? Or just leave rubber on blade and applied to topsheet alone? Sorry for all the questions as I am new to all these.

My results are on sponge only and when new.. some rubbers I retuned after 2-3 weeks.. I took of the glue layer and aplied the booster on clean sponge..

Dynaryz AGR /Yasaka Goiabao 5 / Dynaryz AGR
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hans Regenkurt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/15/2012 at 4:10am
Tibhar Grip-S Euro: mediocre effect after 4 layers of Seamoon. The sheet was completely devoid of any tuner as it stood in my drawer for 5 months out of the package. Before tuning it was about as fast as a basic 729 sheet. After the layers were applied it became a lot faster, about the speed of a Bluefire S3. The spin did not match Xiom Sigma Pro tuned and there was still some unpredictability in its behaviour.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carryboy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/15/2012 at 10:00am
Has anyone here retuned Tibhar Q1 and Q5 with the Dandoy's Bio Booster. Was there a positive effect or not???
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bbkon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/15/2012 at 10:27am
Originally posted by bayttplayer bayttplayer wrote:

Falco Tempo long Booster on H3, 12 hour each time 4-6 layer, good result (Chinese Rubber basically not playable without boost).

Try the same on calibra LT, but not as much different as chinese rubber. For sure is much better, but those rubber already good enough for me without boost, so I don’t boost them anymore.


i heard that falco is no longer sold
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rich215 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/15/2012 at 12:12pm
Below are posts taken from the other thread recently that I think will add to this subject.  I have edited them to contain the useful info from their original postings.



Originally posted by decoi decoi wrote:


anyway ive tried Long boost and seamoon, and long boost works quite fast and is easier to work with. and it seems to have stronger effect than seamoon



Originally posted by seguso seguso wrote:

Originally posted by Speedplay Speedplay wrote:

I'm curious, don't boosters slowly lose effect, so that you never play with the "same" rubber do to this drop in effect?

Yea, but this happens with vega pro, t05, bluefire as well.



Originally posted by AcudaDave AcudaDave wrote:

My buddy that has played with S3 used to boost his with baby oil, and it did make a little difference but it didn't last and then it wore out the rubber prematurely...so I just wouldn't advise it.



Originally posted by stefashka stefashka wrote:

 
My M1 become harder and lost some control because of that in two months. A thin layer of Falco Tempo Long made it play like new. After other two months, I just repeated the routine with a similar result. About $100 saved.  
 



Originally posted by Hans Regenkurt Hans Regenkurt wrote:

Back to the original question, which booster should i use...

I tested today Sigma Pro treated with Falco Long Booster and it is a lot better than Seamoon. Although Seamoon definitely has a noticeable effect on the rubber it makes it a bit rigid (i tested with two layers).

I think one needs to put more of it to get the same effect as with Falco.

Falco Long booster seems to be stronger and in contrast to Seamoon, it makes the rubber a bit softer but more springy. It also enhances control.



Originally posted by Anderni Anderni wrote:

  I dunno if it's readily available, but there's one called Kai Lin. There's a blog of a Canadian who spent 6 months with a Chinese provincial team, their coach briefed them on boosters and said Kai Lin has a better effect and lasts 2x as long as Dian Chi.  http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=18471&start=210

He says Kai Lin makes 2.15mm rubbers go over max limit, so they use Dian Chi on their DHS forehands and Kai Lin on the thinner sponged Acudas and Tenergies on their backhands.



Originally posted by decoi decoi wrote:

so far from using seamoon vs Falco long boost on the same rubber ( 2 different sheets) . falco seems to have a much more pronounced than seamoon. although the differense isnt great , falco seems to curl the rubber more with less
 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AndySmith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/15/2012 at 12:19pm
Originally posted by bbkon bbkon wrote:

Originally posted by bayttplayer bayttplayer wrote:

Falco Tempo long Booster on H3, 12 hour each time 4-6 layer, good result (Chinese Rubber basically not playable without boost).

Try the same on calibra LT, but not as much different as chinese rubber. For sure is much better, but those rubber already good enough for me without boost, so I don’t boost them anymore.


i heard that falco is no longer sold
 
I ordered a tub of Long Booster this wekk, so it's still out there.  Do you mean it isn't produced any more?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bbkon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/15/2012 at 12:29pm
Originally posted by AndySmith AndySmith wrote:

Originally posted by bbkon bbkon wrote:

Originally posted by bayttplayer bayttplayer wrote:

Falco Tempo long Booster on H3, 12 hour each time 4-6 layer, good result (Chinese Rubber basically not playable without boost).

Try the same on calibra LT, but not as much different as chinese rubber. For sure is much better, but those rubber already good enough for me without boost, so I don’t boost them anymore.


i heard that falco is no longer sold
 
I ordered a tub of Long Booster this wekk, so it's still out there.  Do you mean it isn't produced any more?

please give me the link?? have you tested with chinese rubbers?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AndySmith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/15/2012 at 12:45pm
Originally posted by bbkon bbkon wrote:

Originally posted by AndySmith AndySmith wrote:

Originally posted by bbkon bbkon wrote:

Originally posted by bayttplayer bayttplayer wrote:

Falco Tempo long Booster on H3, 12 hour each time 4-6 layer, good result (Chinese Rubber basically not playable without boost).

Try the same on calibra LT, but not as much different as chinese rubber. For sure is much better, but those rubber already good enough for me without boost, so I don’t boost them anymore.


i heard that falco is no longer sold
 
I ordered a tub of Long Booster this wekk, so it's still out there.  Do you mean it isn't produced any more?

please give me the link?? have you tested with chinese rubbers?

Bribar, here in the UK:

http://shop.bribartt.co.uk/falco-tempo-booster-5020.html

Only received it today.  I've got it to try out on my Bluefires (although it remains to be seen if M3 will stand up to having the glue removed from the sponge).  Don't have any chinese stuff to hand, sorry.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hans Regenkurt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/15/2012 at 3:01pm
Falco is available, I guess it is just false news.

Joola Phenix 48 - I tried it with 3 different tuners, it does not work at all. It becomes uncontrollable and balls slip off it if you do a full stroke (Sigma Pro works fine with the same technique).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bayttplayer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/15/2012 at 4:31pm
[/QUOTE]

please give me the link?? have you tested with chinese rubbers?
[/QUOTE]


I got my from tabletennis11.com.


Innerforce-ZLC FL + H3 + T80

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hans Regenkurt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/16/2012 at 6:34pm
I must take back what I said about Rhyzm tuned. I will do more testing but I liked it in today's session.

H3 Neo tuned with 4 layers of Seamoon: extreme spin in attacking shots against offensive players. Speed is almost the same as Bluefire M1. To my astonishement, it was unable to cope with chopped balls. The topsheet is so soft that it was impossible to loop against chop.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hans Regenkurt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/16/2012 at 7:05pm
I meant TG3 Neo tuned
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Roger Stillabower Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/17/2012 at 6:27pm
I think most Booster's are some type of evaporating oil, like Baby Oil. I recently removed Rakza 7 from a blade and it curled up and shrunk like most Tenser's do. I put several layers of Baby Oil on the sponge and it went flat and grew in size. It now has that jelly like feel to it. I glued it to a MM blade with Haifu water base glue. It plays as good as new if not better. Been doing this for some time now and it has saved me some money. I read where the Bluefire rubber looses some after some time, just like the Tenergy's so I would bet it is some type of evaporating oil that they use.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/17/2012 at 6:30pm
I used baby oil by itself once and it did nothing.
makes it softer but that's it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote huri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/17/2012 at 6:44pm
Originally posted by Hans Regenkurt Hans Regenkurt wrote:

I must take back what I said about Rhyzm tuned. I will do more testing but I liked it in today's session.

H3 Neo tuned with 4 layers of Seamoon: extreme spin in attacking shots against offensive players. Speed is almost the same as Bluefire M1. To my astonishement, it was unable to cope with chopped balls. The topsheet is so soft that it was impossible to loop against chop.
So you've put 4 layers of seamon to rubber which is pre boosted and according to instructions you have to put only 2 layers and you are astonished that it is too soft ? :D 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hans Regenkurt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/17/2012 at 7:18pm
@huri: Seamoon is not as strong as it is advertised, the Falco has a different and stronger effect. The TG3 rested in the drawer for 5 months after I opened the wrapping, there cannot have been much of the original tuning

Test result from today:

Rhyzm 48: IT was okay with 3 layers of Falco Long but the likes of Xiom Sigma Pro or BF M1 are better tuned

TG3 Neo commercial: It is good speedwise and the topsheeet was not so soft after all. It is only the commercial version so it is not possible to get more out of it, it still had some inconsistency so the  final conclusion is that it cannot substitute more expensive tensors.

Baracuda with the harder sponge, tuned with 2 layers of Falco Long: extremely good, very good control and very useful rubber


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GoldenDragoon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/17/2012 at 11:09pm
Originally posted by huri huri wrote:


Originally posted by Hans Regenkurt Hans Regenkurt wrote:

I must take back what I said about Rhyzm tuned. I will do more testing but I liked it in today's session.H3 Neo tuned with 4 layers of Seamoon: extreme spin in attacking shots against offensive players. Speed is almost the same as Bluefire M1. To my astonishement, it was unable to cope with chopped balls. The topsheet is so soft that it was impossible to loop against chop.


So you've put 4 layers of seamon to rubber which is pre boosted and according to instructions you have to put only 2 layers and you are astonished that it is too soft ? :D 


I have used TG3 neo and H3 neo before. The pre boosted effect is not worth talking about, and is hardly worth the extra $. Better to tune it yourself for a decent effect. BTW tuned TG3 or H3 is hardly what you would call "soft".
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rich215 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/25/2012 at 2:49pm
After some minor testing on Mark V and Rakza's with Falco Long Boost:

I used just a single medium layer on Mark V and both Rakza versions in 2.0mm. Mark V has responded more than Rakza soft and regular. 

The set of Mark V red & black that i boosted were slightly domed manufacture.  Something I had not seen yet in any sheets of Yasaka rubbers I have purchased, especially any of the Mark V's.  It was like they had some tension on them or something.   So after I broke them in for a month of light use.....I used these to test the Falco long booster.  

After 24 hours of boosting these Mark V's,  they had just a slight bit of reverse dome and expanded a good bit, Id say about 3-4mm from top handle to tip to give you some idea.  After playing with them on my Extra 3DSC, they felt much more controllable and had more spin as the top sheet seemed to also be slightly softer or have more grip.  They did have the feeling of a bit more dwell too.  Speed difference from untuned to tuned......Was hard to sense but maybe slightly faster as any speed change was not something that stood out as much as the extra grip and dwell factors.



Using the same medium single layer of long booster, I have now boosted full sets of Rakza soft and reg. in 2.0mm red and black each.  The red rubbers of each Rakza version seemed to respond more than their black counter parts.  I found this slightly odd as I was expecting the soft versions (red and black) to respond more than the regular Rakza rubber sponge would.

With that single layer of long booster applied to the Rakza rubbers, the state of "domage" or curl/tension change resulted in the red rubbers to be just slightly reverse domed, and the blacks being still slightly domed.  (Reverse dome to me is when the sponge is on the outside of the curl and dome is when the rubber top is on the outside of the dome).  Please correct me if I am wrong with those 2 terms.

All 4 rubbers were fairly worn as they were my first sheets of Rakza I had ever had, and they are maybe 60-70% life left prior to boosting.  One thing that is very nice for the shrunken hard to glue tensors like this is.......they are not playable and fairly flat for easy gluing!   That alone along with some level of conditioning of a used tensor is a ++ in my book.  So even if you dont need the long boost...just using either to make a tensor "glue-able" again is nice.

I have not played yet with the 4 Razka rubbers, but also they are glued to other blades than what I normally use (Extra 3DSC and Ma Lin SC).   The Rakza's are mounted now to my Galxy E2 -reg Rakza, and Galxy Y-13 with the soft Rakza.   I will report back my thoughts after a few sessions of using each blade.  Im not sure what to expect as the top sheets of Rakza do loose their grip after a month or more of normal play.  I expect the added boost will help dwell for sure, but I will see if it brings back any grip which should be quickly seen in service shots. 

I think the boosting with the Falco Long Booster with just one single medium layer, may have added about 1-2 grams weight to each rubber and not any more if that.

 




Edited by Rich215 - 11/25/2012 at 2:55pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote danhs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/25/2012 at 5:59pm
Originally posted by Rich215 Rich215 wrote:


With that single layer of long booster applied to the Rakza rubbers, the state of "domage" or curl/tension change resulted in the red rubbers to be just slightly reverse domed, and the blacks being still slightly domed.  (Reverse dome to me is when the sponge is on the outside of the curl and dome is when the rubber top is on the outside of the dome).  Please correct me if I am wrong with those 2 terms.

You have it backward. Domed rubber has the sponge on the outside of the curl.  Back in the SG days the size of the dome was how you could tell if the rubber was glued to your liking. More glue/booster = more dome (and more speed).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rich215 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/25/2012 at 7:20pm
OK...I had domed and reversed domed backwards.....sorry.  

Here is a pic of my Mark V's just prior to application.  They actually came like that and did not change after 2 glue jobs moving from one blade to another in about 5-6 weeks use.  I have had maybe 8 other Yasaka Mark V's regular and AD versions and they were all perfectly flat when new.  The red one had much more reverse dome than the black one...and the red one was about 2 grams heavier uncut. 

So they went from that much reverse dome to just slightly domed. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Anton Chigurh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/25/2012 at 10:58pm
This is TG3 Neo with two coats of Seamoon. The first coat dried but the second coat has not yet dried (in the pic). 

Even with this "small" amount of curl I don't think I'll add more until I get a chance to play it. Honestly, I don't find TG3 Neo to be lacking in speed or spin, but some sheets are inconsistent and I wanted to see if the Seamoon affected the top sheet a bit. 




EDIT: I just removed the sticky plastic from the top sheet (since it was a new sheet) and the dome doubled. LOL Same rubber below after the plastic was removed and the tuner soaked in a bit more--this is only two relatively thin layers of Seamoon:




Edited by Anton Chigurh - 11/26/2012 at 1:25am
Neo H3 40D| Offensive S | Tenergy 80
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GoldenDragoon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/25/2012 at 11:58pm
The rubber will flatten in about 1 day with seamoon. Then it will play a little more like a tensor with more speed/spin for the same amount of effort.
Blade: Nexy Spartacus FL 84g
FH: Evolution FX-P Max Blk
BH: Evolution EL-P 1.9 Red
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