water base glue affecting speed

A friend of mine who is a very high level player (top 20 in the U.S., and was national team for his country) insists that a certain major brand of water base glue makes the rubber play much faster than other similar looking glues. In my opinions the glue is the same as that from a couple other manufactures, as it comes in identical packaging, just a different label.

He say everyone in his country knows that brand X make your rubber play faster while brand Y gives better control.

I told him I think it is all in his head, that water glue is water glue. Since there is no VOC the speed should all be very much the same.

Have you noticed any performance difference (not adhesion) between different water based glues from the major manufacturers?

It's not likely to be noticable with a single layer though. DHS used to recommend 10 layers for their #15 glue, for a 'speed glue effect'. If you did apply multiple layers you  could indeed feel it to be more bouncy and faster, but with a single layer (unless it's very thick) perhaps only a professional could feel the very minor difference.

beeray1 wrote: This is probably why Nittaku Finezip is so popular with professional players. Super elastic.

I am very skeptical about this.

vutiendat1337 wrote: beeray1 wrote: This is probably why Nittaku Finezip is so popular with professional players. Super elastic.  What about Tear Mender? I usually put around 4 - 5 layers tops. I am not even sure if it helps, lol

Haifu WBG in the big bottles is too thin - that's why 8-10 layers are needed. I guess, Bty is the slower one.

I've used both Donic Vario Clean and BTY Free Chack.  I didn't notice much difference in terms of speed/performance, but I did notice that the BTY glue had more of a citrus smell.

but then, with most WBGs, it's a HUGE pain in the butt to remove the glue residue. Granted, I only have experience with Free Chack and Donic Formula. Rubber cement is easy to use, cheap, quite easy to remove residue but I don't like how it peels off quickly. Tear Mender is the best glue I have used so far, the trick is to use a COSMETIC FOAM, best ever.
However, the last time I tried to put more layers using TM, I accidentally poured too much glue and after it dried up, the rubber surface is slightly uneven. If you can maintain thin layer after thin layer, it's great. Can't say I noticed any speed glue effect but whatevs

alphapong wrote: He does not put many layers, so I am skeptical that such a thin layer would make a difference, unless there is some other ingredient that affects the sponge. Some of you who put 10 layers, are likely making things faster mostly from an extra 10 grams of mass. I will give you 2 of the glues that he commented on. 1 was Butterfly Free Chack and the other was Donic Vario Clean. They both come in the same packaging, appear identical and seem to come from the same factory. He says one is much faster that the other. Anyone ever compared these 2?

Superballs made from a good wbg glue do bounce (a lot). Especially balls made from Haifu glue.... Try it

I have not experimented enough with WBG yet (just started with copydex and I glued 4 setups). What I remember with paper cement is the following: with a very thick coat of glue, we can experience a sling shot effect from the bottom of the sponge; let's talk about that sling shot effect: it can come from the tender topsheet --> at contact. the ball grabs the rubber and a piece of the topsheet is elongated and acts like a sling shot when the stored energy is released. With a very thick coat of paper cement the whole base may move and move back, acting like a sling shot as well.

The person who gave me a bottle of Copydex reports a catapult effect that is considerable; "lots of elasticity" is the exact quote and, right or wrong, I interpreted it as the sling shot effect. I have not tried yet and I am curious.

Did somebody try to apply -say- 12 to 20 coats of WBG and observe the difference at play?

I would be very cautious at using any more of a WBG than is necessary for adhesion at least on the sponge.  On the blade it doesn't matter.  Thus is especially with large-pored sponges like Tenergy.  In my opinion, the WBG glue seeps into the pores, then solidifies, and this degrades performance, both speed and spin.  This is less of a problem with the more viscous glues, like Donic Blue Thunder, for example.  It may be less of a problem with Tearmender because it dries so fast, but I would still avoid it because Tearmender is also quite liquid when you first apply it.  This is my experience, anyway.   

As for one WBG being faster than another, the chances are almost all of the ones sold by European TT companies are made in the same factory and are essentially the same, only about two variants available -- a viscous version recently introduced and the original version.  I have used most of them and have never seen any difference at all.  I'm not a 2500 player or anything like that, but I'm good enough to be able to tell the difference if there was one.  For Chinese glues though, could be true for all I know, I have not tried any of them.  But I am very skeptical.  The way old speed glues worked was by expanding topsheet and sponge to different degrees, thereby producing a tension on the top sheet.  I have never seen a WBG do that.  Adding a "bouncy" layer between the blade and rubber just doesn't seem like it could possibly have enough effect relative to the sponge to be noticeable.

Edit:  I forgot I have a bottle of Haifu WBG in a large blue bottle that I bought on advice of someone here.  It is so runny it is a true pain to use.  You need a hairdryer.  It had no noticeable change in performance.  I haven't used it in a couple of years. 

Makes some sense too.

 ..." WBG does not get solid when dried, it is elastic....".
  Depends on glue and time.

Edited by viktorovich - 12/25/2013 at 5:11am

I notice adding more layers of water based glue, makes the dwell time longer, ball become slower...