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Best 1-ply Hinoki Blade |
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Harold
Super Member Joined: 05/04/2006 Location: Singapore Status: Offline Points: 119 |
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Adib: Thanks. I'm sticking to hand shake blade now. Finally after friends telling me that it's better for backhand. I've since sold off my KTS. But I think hinoki's great for hand shake. Would recommend it for people to try. Ok fellas: Let's get this straight: Hinoki = Kiso Hinoki = cypress (small letter c to indicate type of wood)? Correct? |
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jake_my
Beginner Joined: 10/31/2005 Location: Malaysia Status: Offline Points: 76 |
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To all,
Hinoki is japanese cypress. There are other similar species known as false cypress. Kiso Hinoki is Japanese cypress that comes from that special region in central Japan. Not all cypress is hinoki and not all hinoki is kiso hinoki. |
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SDRamones
Gold Member Joined: 11/12/2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1470 |
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Yes . . . exactly. Cypress is just the name of the type of tree. The cypress we get from the US is sometimes called American Cypress, but is different from Hinoki since weather and growth patterns is much more different. And in general containes larger growth rings. In the US there is a close cousin to HINOKI, It is called PORT ORFORD CEDAR. It is not really a Cypress or a Cedar. US only exports one type of wood in the whole form rather than milled and it is HINOKI. And from the US market, Japan consumes 85% of the US supply. HINOKI is Japanese "False" Cypress. Coming from the species Chamaecyparis. And specifically the desireable one is the Kisio Hinoki coming from a specific region in Japan. It contains much smaller growth rings which is much more desireable in the making of TT racquets. On a side note. This Hinoki is also in the same species as the trees used used in making Bonsai trees. Also, in Japan Hinoki is used in making buildings, the Emperor's palace, caskets, temples and bathes. So there is a lot of competition for prime cuts of the good Hinoki.
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stefanusj
Super Member Joined: 06/18/2006 Status: Offline Points: 106 |
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SDRamones, you rules man... Very very educative to us.
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stefanusj
Super Member Joined: 06/18/2006 Status: Offline Points: 106 |
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SDRamones, you rules man... Very very educative to us.
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SDRamones
Gold Member Joined: 11/12/2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1470 |
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It's the Science major in me Before I started buying Hinoki blades I looked up the information and since someone inquired I just decided to share a little bit and share the knowledge. I always wondered why it was so sought after and revered. It is wood, but now I know why it is special and limited. |
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haggisv
Forum Moderator Dark Knight Joined: 06/28/2005 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 5110 |
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Excellent information "SDRamones"! Perhaps you can enlighten us on the different kind of Balsa wood out there as well? There is the real soft 100% Balsa blades out there, and then there's the balsa layers such as the ones used in Friednship blades, which looks different and feels a fair bit harder (but you can still push it in with a fingernail). |
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SDRamones
Gold Member Joined: 11/12/2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1470 |
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Thanks ...Haggisv and StefanusJ. Glad to contribute. I personally am trying to figure that one out now. THe more I play with my little boys Visse Balsa Blade the more I am liking it. I am able to control the shot more. And with the right rubber combination - some shots that were previously hard for me with my current setup are actually a little bit eaier for me to do with the lighter blade. I'll post if I find out anything significant. Plus this Borko blade is very interesting to me. It's fascinating the different woods and wood combinations he is using. Plus to me the UGLY blade actually looks good to me. I like the different wood grains. To me it is classically timeless. Like the old STIGA blades. |
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Adib
Super Member Joined: 02/27/2006 Location: Malaysia Status: Offline Points: 311 |
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SDRamones: Great explain. So how we wants indentify our blade is hinoki or kiso hinoki. |
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SDRamones
Gold Member Joined: 11/12/2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1470 |
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THAT is a very good question, which I have not found the answer to. THat would be interesting to know. I wonder if there is a difference.
Also, I've noticed that the Hinoki Blades I have encountered smell different. I've heard that HINOKI gives off a distictive lemon scent. Personally to me it doesn't smell like lemons, but my nose isn't that sensitive. |
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Shalashashka
Super Member Joined: 05/25/2006 Status: Offline Points: 171 |
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Kiso is just a region in Japan. It refers to hinoki originating from that region.
Yes, hinoki give off a lemon like scent. Mine does at least. |
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Extra Rorin.
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Harold
Super Member Joined: 05/04/2006 Location: Singapore Status: Offline Points: 119 |
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Now the quest to find the best 1-ply hinoki blade begins! Thanks all for the great info.
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SDRamones
Gold Member Joined: 11/12/2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1470 |
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Good luck Harold. Maybe my lemony scent isn't as distinctive since I only have multi-ply blades.
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rf20
Super Member Joined: 08/08/2005 Location: Houston Status: Offline Points: 104 |
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I have the same one from Taiwan, but I thought Cypress is Hinoki. You can find some information here at http://www.tabletennis.com.tw/index_1.htm. I also bought a Sp70 1 ply Hinoki shake hand from this company. |
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Harold
Super Member Joined: 05/04/2006 Location: Singapore Status: Offline Points: 119 |
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rf20: Well for me plain cypress is plain hinoki. But I guess that there's a lot we don't know yet. You can read SDRamones' post above. Let's just stick to straight tight grains and weight, ok? I cannot read Chinese. Your Sp70, mind my ignorance, what brand is it? How thick? Weight ? |
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rf20
Super Member Joined: 08/08/2005 Location: Houston Status: Offline Points: 104 |
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SP70 is Darker Speed 70, and the blade is at least 9mm thick. I do not know the weight, but it feels like around 90g. |
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rf20
Super Member Joined: 08/08/2005 Location: Houston Status: Offline Points: 104 |
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SP70 is Darker Speed 70, and the blade is at least 9mm thick. I do not know the weight, but it feels like around 90g. |
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aeoliah
Premier Member Joined: 11/18/2005 Location: Indonesia Status: Offline Points: 3215 |
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My Darker Speed 90 (also 9 mm) weighs 84 grams, and I selected this weight out of 4 or 5 alternatives which were heavier.
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Member of the Single Ply Hinoki Club
Viscaria Super ALC C-Pen Rasanter C48 |
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charlesj
Gold Member Joined: 06/28/2008 Location: Singapore Status: Offline Points: 1072 |
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reading malvin's posts is really entertaining!
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peter79
Premier Member Joined: 07/05/2006 Location: Indonesia Status: Offline Points: 3393 |
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First I really don't like my Kokutaku 3008 shakehand. I choose the tightest grain available from 6 blades in the stores. But I get the heaviest which is 94 gr at the store. But when I weight it at my digital scale, the real weight is 96 gr!!!!
First I thought Soft hinoki blades will match hard rubber. I put H3P 40 deg n 39 deg which weight 46 n 45 gr each. Total setup 188 gr which I found heavy. I don't feel enough vibrabtion with this setup up. It's hard to loop with H3P because it doesn't has enough dwell time for my skill at that time.
Today I try it again with the same rubber that I put on H-king which is mambo GP and Roxon 450. Before I put rubber on the blade, I weight it with the same digital scale, the weight of my 3008 decrease from 96 gr to 93,9 gr in 6 months since I bought it. My total setup now only weight 178 gr, which I found much easier to go back to stand by position after looping, blocking manuver is also faster.
Since Mambo GP and Roxon are softer than H3P, I can feel the ball penetrate deeper into the sponge. I can feel more vibration than using H3P.
I will try to play with 1 ply for several weeks to get used to it
I heard many good things from the member of Single Ply Hinoki about the superb feeling and power of 1 ply. Perhaps I haven't got the skill to use it, I'll try to explore the good thing of 1 ply, perhaps I will stick to 1 ply n never turn back, who knows
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Andro Wanokiwami AO Offensive 83 gr
H3 National Orange 40 deg 2.2 Baracuda Max 182 Gr |
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rokphish
Gold Member Joined: 11/27/2007 Location: Indonesia Status: Offline Points: 1924 |
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No you won't. I know. |
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instagram: rokphishtt
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tdragon
Platinum Member Joined: 01/26/2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2060 |
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amateur101
Super Member Joined: 03/26/2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 121 |
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What qualities makes you consider the Darker Speed 90 to be the best? |
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Stiga Clipper CR-WRB
FH/BH - TSP Spectol 21 - 2.1 mm |
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peter79
Premier Member Joined: 07/05/2006 Location: Indonesia Status: Offline Points: 3393 |
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Since I only have 1 one ply blade, I haven't tried any other brand. Is there any difference between 9 mm Kokutaku n 9 mm Darker? Is there hard hinoki or soft hinoki? Or all hinoki are soft?
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Andro Wanokiwami AO Offensive 83 gr
H3 National Orange 40 deg 2.2 Baracuda Max 182 Gr |
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tdragon
Platinum Member Joined: 01/26/2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2060 |
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megaworld
Beginner Joined: 08/23/2021 Location: PH Status: Offline Points: 5 |
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I hope this thread still works.
I was told today that "Kokutaku has changed its management structure. They are still operating in Japan, but basically unreachable. If you place an order with Kokutaku, you will receive the goods, but the delivery time will be delayed. Also, the quality seems to have gone down from before." Does anyone know when the management structure was changed? And more importantly has the quality really gone down from before? I was deciding for a 1-ply Kiso Hinoki shakehand blade between Kokutaku Weizhou No. 1 3008 (after reading this thread) or a Darker Speed 90 or a Darker Imperial Hinoki 2020. Currently using a Nittaku Septear shakehand and Xiom Hibi-O Tour Jpen. 7-ply feel is not the same as a 1-ply, hence the decision above. Thank you.
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mischasln
Super Member Joined: 09/18/2016 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 265 |
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Hi, I can recommend you buying a TSP Dynam Special. They're cheap, their quality is totally comparable to Butterfly's, and they're widely available.
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penholderxxx
Super Member Joined: 09/19/2016 Location: Asia Status: Offline Points: 451 |
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I hope this thread still works.
I was told today that "Kokutaku has changed its management structure. They are still operating in Japan, but basically unreachable. If you place an order with Kokutaku, you will receive the goods, but the delivery time will be delayed. Also, the quality seems to have gone down from before." Does anyone know when the management structure was changed? ....... - Megaworld If you are looking for a Kokutaku Jpen, you can try TT-Japan. Its web page shows the Bishu No.1 chou-super-cyoutokusen is available. Any quality/ performance issue with your Xiom Hibi-O Tour Jpen ? |
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Iloveplayingtabletennis
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megaworld
Beginner Joined: 08/23/2021 Location: PH Status: Offline Points: 5 |
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Apologies for the confusion!
I'm looking for a 1-ply shakehand, not Jpen. Hence, the 3 choices. Recently converted to using shakehand. The Xiom was a recent purchase after selling my 35-year-old Nittaku 1-ply Jpen (which the handle looks like Butterfly's Senkoh). Regretted selling it, I should have sent it back to Japan for refurbishment. The Xiom was purchased to replace the Nittaku and I was intrigued by the Xiom shape. It is my first time trying out Xiom Jpen. Am contemplating the Kokutaku Bishu No.1 chou-super-cyoutokusen. However, this means start of a new and expensive hobby collecting 1-ply hinoki blades. :-P |
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HuLimei
Super Member Joined: 07/10/2017 Location: BTY Factory Status: Offline Points: 276 |
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Quality-wise I can't tell the difference.
Tho I only have a low quality (taken from a butterfly premade) and several midgrade Hinoki (standard old 9mm black tag) bats to compare each other to. There's also the issue of the highest, top of the line Hinoki usually reserved for the 10.5mm blades. Maybe the higher quality tighter grains will be marginally faster but I don't know why you would want faster. Standard 9mm Low grade is fast enough as it is. I have no desire to play with blades above 10mm. The lowest quality 1 Hinokis will have better feel and control than your standard 5-7 ply woods and composites so if you can your hands on one of those go for it. |
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Butefly Wiscaria Cold Edition (w/Black Tag)
FH: Tee-Oh-Five Hardest BH: Tee-Oh-Five Hardur |
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