TIBHAR MX-P review

NextLevel wrote: I can see that Haggisv. That's a different dynamic. But what I would really like to see are people using these rubbers side by side when making these claims and doing it on video so that we can understand what they mean.

Yes that would be good to see.

It would also be interesting to hear how different people judge how much spin is on the ball. You can judge it by the trajectory, the kick off the table, the block off your opponents bats, etc. What appears to be higher or lower spin, may possibly be explained by other factors.

When I slapped on FX-P on the Arirang (had Aurus on it before) my Div 1 opponent/partner told me my loops troubled him a LOT more (with FX-P) (Loops dropped earlier and were spinnier).

NextLevel wrote: Matt Pimple, I get your point. I am aware of it. If someone can show me the stroke speed required to get an ESN rubber to outspin Tenergy, it would be nice. If not, I stand by my statement. I doubt anyone who looped to a blocker would have their blocker saying that MX-P was spinnier than Tenergy 05. It shows up in looping, driving and counterlooping. There are other MX-P benefits but its not pure spin. I am just tired of people saying that ESN has caught up. It's not true.

It depends on the shot. For example, on powerloops, T05 spins less than M1 turbo. that is due to the much harder sponge of M1 turbo. So in this sense ESN has cought up on spin. But then you get less spin in other situations (m1 turbo for example does not have the mechanical spin that T05 has).


Edited by seguso - 06/10/2015 at 4:02am

NextLevel wrote: Tenergy 05 tends to mess up the timing of loopers/blockers because of its arc. That's not necessarily the same thing as ball rotation, though there are ways to show it is very closely related.

Hmmm...  I wonder how this might be true.  Can you give us a situation in which arc is not directly related to ball rotation (I assume you mean spin)?

@nextlevel

this is my experience... I was the a blocker, not the looper; the looper was the guy in my video, a big guy with a lot of power. He had been using t05 on fh for years, but I saw clearly that he was bottoming it out consistently. as result, against backspin, he could either brush loop or powerloop; if he brushlooped he only got spin (huge spin) but little speed. if he powerlooped he got big speed but poor spin and poor arc. This is saw when blocking. So I told him: t05 is too soft for you; try my m1 turbo, and you will be able to get both spin and speed at the same time. He did, he stuck m1 turbo on his nittaku redshank, and instantly I saw the improvement: that kind of powerloop which you see in tv, which is both fast and dips violently, and accelerates towards you suddenly. He too felt this immediately. (Of course to obtain this he also had to impact the ball a bit more tangentially, like chinese rubbers). This was one year ago, and he has kept m1 turbo since, and his level has improved a lot (reaching #130 Italy). Now he laughs when he talks about t05. He had worked around the problems of t05 by brush looping more than usual, because if he powerlooped he would get only speed but no spin and arc.

In the meantime I did the reverse: I took off m1 turbo because I have less power than him, and can't always hit with enough power ; I am better with m1 or mx-p. That's the story.

my question too you is: have you tried powerlooping against underspin with m1 turbo?


Edited by seguso - 06/10/2015 at 8:44am

I don't hold grudges, if that helps...

well after read this , i quickly back home to open up  so call " pro player version" of evo FX-P , the cover was written  " made in germany " with small ittf  logo  , mean while the top sheet does not have anything ..only a few japanese word which i dont understand 

Tassie52 wrote: NextLevel wrote: Tenergy 05 tends to mess up the timing of loopers/blockers because of its arc. That's not necessarily the same thing as ball rotation, though thetre are ways to show it is very closely related. Hmmm...  I wonder how this might be true.  Can you give us a situation in which arc is not directly related to ball rotation (I assume you mean spin)?

Throw a ball in a parabola without spin. The arc is caused by gravity.

You can also get significant spin on a drive. It's the spin to speed ratio that might be different. In fact, when most people say spin, what we really mean is spin to speed.

seguso wrote: NextLevel wrote: seguso wrote: @nextlevel this is my experience... I was the a blocker, not the looper; the looper was the guy in my video, a big guy with a lot of power. He had been using t05 on fh for years, but I saw clearly that he was bottoming it out consistently. as result, against backspin, he could either brush loop or powerloop; if he brushlooped he only got spin (huge spin) but little speed. if he powerlooped he got big speed but poor spin and poor arc. This is saw when blocking. So I told him: t05 is too soft for you; try my m1 turbo, and you will be able to get both spin and speed at the same time. He did, he stuck m1 turbo on his nittaku redshank, and instantly I saw the improvement: that kind of powerloop which you see in tv, which is both fast and dips violently, and accelerates towards you suddenly. He too felt this immediately. (Of course to obtain this he also had to impact the ball a bit more tangentially, like chinese rubbers). This was one year ago, and he has kept m1 turbo since, and his level has improved a lot (reaching #130 Italy). Now he laughs when he talks about t05. He had worked around the problems of t05 by brush looping more than usual, because if he powerlooped he would get only speed but no spin and arc. In the meantime I did the reverse: I took off m1 turbo because I have less power than him, and can't always hit with enough power ; I am better with m1 or mx-p. That's the story. my question too you is: have you tried powerlooping against underspin with m1 turbo? Did you friend boost his Tenergy or the M1 Turbo?  Just curious. I haven't used M1 Turbo but I know this - M1 Turbo has a hard sponge.  Powerlooping underspin always feels better with a harder sponge.  Whether that means it is spinnier is an open question.  Tack and surface grip have to be looked at as well. I just asked him... he says he did not boost t05 (but everybody else did), and does not boost M1 turbo now. I think after a certain power, spin depends mostly on hardness. Though I haven't tried them, I conjecture that any modern 50deg esn rubber will spin more than t05 on powerloops.

Edited by NextLevel - 06/10/2015 at 3:05pm

It should not be forgotten that the arc is largely due to how the ball leaves the racquet - spin simply dictates how that arc changes over time as the ball floats through the air. A rubber with more friction will throw the ball in a higher arc, given an upward-directed topspin stroke.

Olio wrote: I don't hold grudges, if that helps... As a reference regarding spin, the Vega Pro is already supposed to be a very spinny rubber, not up to T05 but not far. Well the MX-P is way spinnier. Easy to see as well, on the same topspin to bloc exercise, very few mistakes by my partner is I play with VP, many mistakes (blocked off the table) when I play with MX-P.

seguso wrote: @nextlevel this is my experience... I was the a blocker, not the looper; the looper was the guy in my video, a big guy with a lot of power. He had been using t05 on fh for years, but I saw clearly that he was bottoming it out consistently. as result, against backspin, he could either brush loop or powerloop; if he brushlooped he only got spin (huge spin) but little speed. if he powerlooped he got big speed but poor spin and poor arc. This is saw when blocking. So I told him: t05 is too soft for you; try my m1 turbo, and you will be able to get both spin and speed at the same time. He did, he stuck m1 turbo on his nittaku redshank, and instantly I saw the improvement: that kind of powerloop which you see in tv, which is both fast and dips violently, and accelerates towards you suddenly. He too felt this immediately. (Of course to obtain this he also had to impact the ball a bit more tangentially, like chinese rubbers). This was one year ago, and he has kept m1 turbo since, and his level has improved a lot (reaching #130 Italy). Now he laughs when he talks about t05. He had worked around the problems of t05 by brush looping more than usual, because if he powerlooped he would get only speed but no spin and arc. In the meantime I did the reverse: I took off m1 turbo because I have less power than him, and can't always hit with enough power ; I am better with m1 or mx-p. That's the story. my question too you is: have you tried powerlooping against underspin with m1 turbo?

This post really helped me make sense of all this.

ttping85 wrote: Interesting discussions here. The amount of spin a player can produce with a rubber really depends on his technique. Personally I have my best performances in terms of spin and speed with medium to medium - hard rubbers. With everything softer than 42 degrees or harder than 45 degrees my performances will be lower.