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H3 with Tenergy sponge

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    Posted: 02/23/2013 at 10:19pm
Has anyone tried gluing H3 topsheet onto Tenergy sponge?

I imagine it's just as good if not better than the best DHS can produce (national) considering they're still using older rubber production technology compared to ESN.

Does it work well? 
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slowman View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote slowman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/23/2013 at 10:36pm
Not sure about tenergy sponge but Nittaku got this:
http://www.tabletennis11.com/other_eng/tt-rubber-nittaku-hurricane-iii-nt50type
H3 top sheet on Japanese sponge. I have never tried it. Tongue
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GeneralSpecific Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/24/2013 at 12:07am
The Nittaku Hurricane's are nothing too special. I also imagine that H3 topsheet on tenergy's spring sponge would probably be the world's greatest forehand rubber LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zach Moy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/24/2013 at 12:48am
Ive had this idea ever since tenergy came out. Only problem is that who is going to special order tenergy sponge for like $200 and find some way to get h3 topsheet because dhs doesnt just sell topsheets.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote davidwhang Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/24/2013 at 2:40am
Wouldn't that be a slower rubber compared to a normal H3 commercial? A harder sponge is what gives the speed in the H3 commercial..correct me if i'm wrong though..
Blade: Yasaka Gatien Extra (Penhold)

FH: DHS Hurricane 3 Neo (Black - 2.15mm - 41 deg)

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GeneralSpecific Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/24/2013 at 2:44am
Originally posted by davidwhang davidwhang wrote:

Wouldn't that be a slower rubber compared to a normal H3 commercial? A harder sponge is what gives the speed in the H3 commercial..correct me if i'm wrong though..


You are wrong.

Hardness of a sponge is not necessarily indicative of speed. There is no law that states degree of sponge hardness = degree of speed.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Imago Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/24/2013 at 2:53am

Yet in the case with H3, there is such pronounced correlation. On the other side, there are 8 degrees real difference between the T05 sponge and a H3 40 d sponge. So, if you put a T05 sponge to H3 rubber, DHS would probably measure it as 32 d. And this would be slow and powerless.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote davidwhang Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/24/2013 at 3:01am
Originally posted by GeneralSpecific GeneralSpecific wrote:

Originally posted by davidwhang davidwhang wrote:

Wouldn't that be a slower rubber compared to a normal H3 commercial? A harder sponge is what gives the speed in the H3 commercial..correct me if i'm wrong though..


You are wrong.

Hardness of a sponge is not necessarily indicative of speed. There is no law that states degree of sponge hardness = degree of speed.



Not necessarily equal..but let's say...correlates (?) to..or generally..if those are better terms..
Here, see this:
http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=53793&PID=661137

softer sponge usually translates to slower speed among other things
Blade: Yasaka Gatien Extra (Penhold)

FH: DHS Hurricane 3 Neo (Black - 2.15mm - 41 deg)

BH: 729 Focus III Snipe (Red - 2.10mm - 42 deg)

Weight: 168.57g
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote davidwhang Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/24/2013 at 3:02am
Originally posted by Imago Imago wrote:

Yet in the case with H3, there is such pronounced correlation. On the other side, there are 8 degrees real difference between the T05 sponge and a H3 40 d sponge. So, if you put a T05 sponge to H3 rubber, DHS would probably measure it as 32 d. And this would be slow and powerless.



+1
Blade: Yasaka Gatien Extra (Penhold)

FH: DHS Hurricane 3 Neo (Black - 2.15mm - 41 deg)

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bluebucket Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/24/2013 at 3:07am
The sponge is the best thing about h3 the topsheet is nothing special. Change the sponge to a tenergy sponge and you would be left with a decent sponge and average top sheet.

If you put the t05 topsheet on the dhs sponge perhaps, just perhaps you would have something good

Edited by bluebucket - 02/24/2013 at 3:08am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GeneralSpecific Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/24/2013 at 3:17am
Originally posted by davidwhang davidwhang wrote:

Originally posted by GeneralSpecific GeneralSpecific wrote:

Originally posted by davidwhang davidwhang wrote:

Wouldn't that be a slower rubber compared to a normal H3 commercial? A harder sponge is what gives the speed in the H3 commercial..correct me if i'm wrong though..


You are wrong.

Hardness of a sponge is not necessarily indicative of speed. There is no law that states degree of sponge hardness = degree of speed.



Not necessarily equal..but let's say...correlates (?) to..or generally..if those are better terms..
Here, see this:
http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=53793&PID=661137

softer sponge usually translates to slower speed among other things


Ok yes, when you explain it that way I can agree.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote davidwhang Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/24/2013 at 3:21am
Sorry, wrong phrasing in the first post then! Cheers! :)
Blade: Yasaka Gatien Extra (Penhold)

FH: DHS Hurricane 3 Neo (Black - 2.15mm - 41 deg)

BH: 729 Focus III Snipe (Red - 2.10mm - 42 deg)

Weight: 168.57g
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brayden Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/24/2013 at 5:55am
The hard sponge is to have more power because of the tacky topsheet of h3. Tenergy sponge with h3 topsheet, i dont think it wil have a desirable effect.

Edited by brayden - 02/24/2013 at 5:56am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GSOM_GSOM11 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/24/2013 at 6:55am
I tried to make such hybrids, nothing special. An easy way to get H3 topsheet is to steam it off the sponge with help of an old-style non-automatic kettle. Then you take a dead T05 or 64 and steam it again. Then glue the topsheet and sponge together with WBG and put it under pressure for 24h to bond stronger.
The resulting rubber is tacky, springy and rather soft => VERY vulnerable to incoming spin. It also loses the ability to execute chinese-style powerloop "right into the ball and forward", T05 sponge often sends it long. You need a harder and more "dead" sponge for it.

A spring-sponge for a "tacky 05" should be harder by 4-5 degrees, then it is worth trying. Palio Thors for instance, I wish it was just a little more tacky to enhance short returns.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote decoi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/24/2013 at 8:57am
get xiom vega china,, its basically a tuned skyline. and far better than thors

Edited by decoi - 02/24/2013 at 9:23am
Blade: DHS Hurricane Hao
FH: TG3 BS
BH: Xiom Omega 4 Aisa

Blade: Hurricane Hao 2 (656)
Fh: Dhs Gold Arc 3
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AndySmith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/24/2013 at 10:07am
You want H3 top sheet on a Spinart sponge. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GSOM_GSOM11 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/24/2013 at 12:06pm
Originally posted by decoi decoi wrote:

get xiom vega china,, its basically a tuned skyline. and far better than thors

I doubt it. Used both on Barwell, Thors is far better in powerlooping. Maybe on other blades the situation will differ.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kurokami Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/24/2013 at 7:31pm
Originally posted by GSOM_GSOM11 GSOM_GSOM11 wrote:

I tried to make such hybrids, nothing special. An easy way to get H3 topsheet is to steam it off the sponge with help of an old-style non-automatic kettle. Then you take a dead T05 or 64 and steam it again. Then glue the topsheet and sponge together with WBG and put it under pressure for 24h to bond stronger.
The resulting rubber is tacky, springy and rather soft => VERY vulnerable to incoming spin. It also loses the ability to execute chinese-style powerloop "right into the ball and forward", T05 sponge often sends it long. You need a harder and more "dead" sponge for it.

A spring-sponge for a "tacky 05" should be harder by 4-5 degrees, then it is worth trying. Palio Thors for instance, I wish it was just a little more tacky to enhance short returns.

alright thanks. there is a difference between speed overall and high tension. what i was looking for was whether it'd be worth it to glue h3 topsheet on tenergy sponge rather than buying these magic "neo nationals". but then again, if it made such a difference, ppl buying them wouldn't still be U2000. I just imagined they might be similar because I was tempted to shell out $80 to buy a #22 blue sponge one. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bluebucket Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/24/2013 at 8:43pm
The national hurricanes are exactly the same as the commercials other than being a nicer sheet with a softer rubber, no big deal. The softer grade doesn't turn them into tenergy
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kurokami Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/24/2013 at 9:44pm
on another note, i just saw a youtube video from someone posting national h3 review lol. it was an ~800 using all sorts of glue, boosters, expensive equipment. then i thought of a lot of ex-provincial players that went to other countries switching to tenergy. so i guess h3 isn't all that it's cracked up to be. anyway, i have some cheap commercial h3 coming in if i decide to test it again. the last time i tried it was almost 2 yrs ago when i was 1400 lol.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BeaverMD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/25/2013 at 12:08am
Originally posted by kurokami kurokami wrote:

Has anyone tried gluing H3 topsheet onto Tenergy sponge?
 
Does it work well? 
 
One guy tried it before.
 
 
In my opinion, the H3 topsheet would be too firm for the Tenergy sponge.  The sponge was designed to extremely absorb the ball before kicking the ball out.  Same reason why Spinart never really caught on.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote beeray1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/25/2013 at 12:13am
Players that move to other countries and switch to tenergy due so usually because of availability I would guess. Nothing else. 

A tenergy sponge under H3 topsheet sounds like a bad idea. The appeal is good to the players who misunderstand the kind of shot that you should play with H3. Just like the Thor's and the Vega China. Those are probably only ever successful in america. The sponge under H3 works in harmony with the topsheet. A tenergy sponge under H3 top are two halves of two different wholes and shouldn't be paired up together
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Anton Chigurh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/25/2013 at 12:45am
Originally posted by beeray1 beeray1 wrote:

Players that move to other countries and switch to tenergy due so usually because of availability I would guess. Nothing else. 

A tenergy sponge under H3 topsheet sounds like a bad idea. The appeal is good to the players who misunderstand the kind of shot that you should play with H3. Just like the Thor's and the Vega China. Those are probably only ever successful in america. The sponge under H3 works in harmony with the topsheet. A tenergy sponge under H3 top are two halves of two different wholes and shouldn't be paired up together


I agree 100%, though I will confess I've made a few investigations into the new ESN attempts at a hard, tacky rubber. Embarrassed But they are all failures (for me). As you (and more than a few others) mentioned, the sponge and top sheet do not seem to work together on such rubbers.

There is some kind of... je ne sais quoi... trait of authentic hard, tacky Chinese rubbers like H3. I would guess that those who wish for an H3 top sheet on a softer Tenergy sponge simply don't know how to exploit H3 with their current technique. I mean no offense by that. I say it because I was making the exact same speculations well over a year ago when my technique was geared toward very different equipment and I had no idea how to use hard, tacky rubber.

The thing is, this is by no means a new idea. The fact that no company has attempted this should be quite telling. There is a reason there is a "theme" going on (softer sponges with grippy top sheets and harder sponges with tacky top sheets). It is because, through trial and error, certain combinations, parameters, etc., are what work ideally, while others simply do not.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ttvet86 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/25/2013 at 11:56am
Isn't the classic DHS PF4 a tacky top sheet on a hard as rock sponge?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote speedy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/25/2013 at 1:18pm
Originally posted by beeray1 beeray1 wrote:

Players that move to other countries and switch to tenergy due so usually because of availability I would guess. Nothing else. 

A tenergy sponge under H3 topsheet sounds like a bad idea. The appeal is good to the players who misunderstand the kind of shot that you should play with H3. Just like the Thor's and the Vega China. Those are probably only ever successful in america. The sponge under H3 works in harmony with the topsheet. A tenergy sponge under H3 top are two halves of two different wholes and shouldn't be paired up together


I tend to agree with beeray1.  You are one smart guy Wink  Manufacturers did what they did for a reason.  This statement is debatable, but let's not.

On other note, I have tried Sword Maze rubber.  It was built from this idea; however, the topsheet of Sword Maze is a little bit softer than H3 (not by much) and the sponge is a little bit less bouncy than T05 (but not by much).  Sword Maze is a good rubber on Michael Maze and Yasaka Soft Carbon. 

But, is Sword Maze is equivalent to H3 on T05 sponge?  Of course, NOT.  However, Sword Maze has some features that some of us looking for:  (1) tacky topsheet (2) more responsive sponge than H3 (3) soft feel (4) faster than H3 but slower than T05

In summary, if you don't like H3 or T05, then look for another rubber.  Combining them is just too much time... (unless you have time)Smile


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kickass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/25/2013 at 1:32pm
Isn't this just Tin Arc?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote assiduous Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/25/2013 at 2:12pm
whatever you get out of this creepy breed, it will for sure be worse that both Tenergy and Hurricane.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chopchopslam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/25/2013 at 2:17pm
Wouldn't the result be somewhat similar to Barracuda Big Slam? Grippy topsheet, soft springy sponge?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kickass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/25/2013 at 2:38pm
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