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Defender Set Up |
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NBSR
Super Member Joined: 01/12/2013 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 185 |
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Posted: 03/01/2013 at 5:28pm |
I first played table tennis using hardbats and never really developed a backhand loop and instead chopped. When playing double inverted with Yinhe W-6, 729-5 FH, and Palio CJ8000 BH I then often find myself chopping on the backhand side instead of looping. Thus, I believe it's better for me to become a defender instead as I do enjoy chopping with the backhand and going in for the kill with the forehand when the time is right. What would be a good starting set up that could be a keeper for a while? Hopefully a blade that's well made / high of quality.
I'm thinking of Donic Defplay Senso, Tackiness Chop II, and not sure about the backhand. Would Tackiness Chop II + Donic Defplay Senso be too slow when performing a forehand loop? I don't necessarily play at a tournament level, just for recreational, been playing for approximately a year and a half.
Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated, (preferably short pimple or long pimple set ups on backhand and inverted on forehand), thanks!
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chopchopslam
Silver Member Joined: 09/28/2011 Location: Iowa Status: Offline Points: 703 |
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see sig
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Butterfly Grubba Pro
Tenergy 80 National Team Pogo LP .6mm |
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bluebucket
Platinum Member Joined: 02/20/2011 Location: 16 Status: Offline Points: 2882 |
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Nothing wrong with tacky chop BH and tacky drive fh. For inverted classic defence.
For a modern defence in SP, 802 BH and one of the DHS Tackys. Don't go above 1.5mm on the BH in both setups, you would enjoy the 802 more in .5 to 1.0mm if you are only chopping. Maybe also use 1.5 on the FH of the first setup. Second setup is for looping on FH so use max sponge there, the defplay is a good choice |
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NBSR
Super Member Joined: 01/12/2013 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 185 |
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@chopchopslam: I'm not really a big fan of CJ8000 on the forehand side as it does feel quite high in throw.
@bluebucket: Would 802 1.5mm work quite well with Defplay Senso on counterlooping? I feel like SP would be more useful in hard, stiff blades as opposed to flexible, soft ones. |
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bluebucket
Platinum Member Joined: 02/20/2011 Location: 16 Status: Offline Points: 2882 |
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1.5mm 802 isn't suitable for looping or counter looping. 802-40 is better. 802 is more a chopping and hitting rubber, 1.5mm is more for alround play with chopping. For chopping only you want thinner.
For an aggressive hitting game 802 in thick sponge on a hard blade is good. For defence a soft blade and thin sponge is what you want. Many many professional defenders use the defplay with 802 on the backhand, it works
Edited by bluebucket - 03/01/2013 at 8:06pm |
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NBSR
Super Member Joined: 01/12/2013 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 185 |
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I see, thanks. Would you recommend sealing the Defplay Senso? By how much will its playing characteristics change if it had been sealed (like if I had it sealed by Megaspin, etc.)?
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bluebucket
Platinum Member Joined: 02/20/2011 Location: 16 Status: Offline Points: 2882 |
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Its a soft blade and technically does need sealing because the top ply is not strong, in the defplays case it does make the blade noticeably harder on a bare blade but doesn't change its character much if at all during play, that's a pity but you don't have much option about the sealing. You understand there are two different defplays? http://www.megaspin.net/store/default.asp?pid=d-defplay-s this is the one I'm talking about. The other one is slower and more for chopping both sides
Edited by bluebucket - 03/01/2013 at 8:55pm |
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NBSR
Super Member Joined: 01/12/2013 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 185 |
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Yep, I do understand that and I found that the non-Classic one is what I'm leaning more towards. Thanks for your input, I appreciate it. Although I still am not sure of what to put on the forehand, something that has both offensive and defensive capabilities. I thought of Tackiness Chop II because of its medium-low throw angle and about medium hardness. I think medium to hard rubbers would suit the Defplay Senso more. Also looking for something that is very durable. Not a huge fan of DHS Neo H3 - again, because of its throw. DHS Skyline Tg2 Neo seems to fit my descriptions, not sure of its chopping capabilities, however. Which of the DHS rubbers you were mentioning that may fit what I'm looking for? Or even non-DHS ones are open for suggestion.
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bluebucket
Platinum Member Joined: 02/20/2011 Location: 16 Status: Offline Points: 2882 |
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The defplay is flexible enough and high throwing enough a blade to support Hurricane 2. It plays well with those kind of rubbers. Hurricane 3 throws too high to be of any use.
Low to high. H2-TG3-H3/=/TG2 H2 is the best of those for chopping, Tg3 also chops well and is the best allround. I still don't know what H3 is good for? nothing?, The two DHS rubbers do work well on the defplay on the forehand. Globe 999 is a good rubber, I haven't tried it on a defplay so can't recommend it in this case. It really only depends on how close to the table you plan on attacking from and where abouts you plan on being when ending the point. Very close then H2, mid then TG3. The defplay produces enormous amounts of spin so no matter what rubber you put on it the loops will be _heavy_ with a capital heavy. So you might as well use a rubber that has good spin potential to make the most of the blades attacking capability. I dont know how far your loop could have come along in a year and a half and I'm sure you would find tg3 easier to play with while looping than H2. On the other hand for players that have no loop H2 is the better rubber.. tough choice
Edited by bluebucket - 03/02/2013 at 3:33am |
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Speedplay
Premier Member Joined: 07/11/2006 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 3405 |
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Agree, even though I think that even 1.5 might be to thick. I would rather suggest starting out with 1.0. I have chopped with LP' and anti's and then tried to learn to chop with SP. Tried it with a 0.5 sponge, and even that felt a bit hard to control, compared to LP or anti. As for sealing the blade, I have sealed all my blades and I haven't been able to feel any difference between a sealed and a unsealed blade. Might depend on how heavy you seal it. I usually use 2-3 very thin layers. |
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The holy grail
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gnopgnipster
Silver Member Joined: 07/22/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 877 |
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If you grew up playing hardbat but now enjoy your modern forehand, why not still use a Hardbat rubber on your backhand that you can chop with at close range or away from the table, block and hit close to the table? Check Valor Premier rubber. It is a classic Hardbat rubber ITTF approved. For your Forehand Apollo II 2.1mm. You can chop with it easily, hit with it and loop with it. For a blade check out my website's selection of hadmade blades. I have from modern fiber and carbon blades to classic-style hardbat blades.
CHEERS! www.ValorTableTennis.com |
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Hardbat: Valor Champion/FH/BH-Valor Premier-OX
Regular:Valor Big Stick FH-Apollo II & BH-Globe 979 OX |
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bluebucket
Platinum Member Joined: 02/20/2011 Location: 16 Status: Offline Points: 2882 |
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Speedplay, to be fair your blades may as well be steel. The defplay is a much more delicate machine. I've rubbed the finest coat of sealer you will ever see and then rubbed all the excess off the wood. Even that is enough to noticeably harden the outer ply.
Switching from inverted to short pips for chopping is very natural and instinctive, only takes moments to adjust. Going from anti to lp probably works in a similar way. Inverted to lp is much more a problem and takes most people two years to adjust fully. Continuing with hard bat is an option, might be a bit boring on the forehand thats all Edited by bluebucket - 03/02/2013 at 8:04am |
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Speedplay
Premier Member Joined: 07/11/2006 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 3405 |
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LOL! No, my blades aren't steel hard, far from it. I have tried using even less, but then there is no protection and the top layer splinters when I remove the rubbers. I apply it with a sponge and whipes it of very carefully, so one layer is hardly noticable. I once got a blade that Haggisv sealed for me, now, that was HEAVY sealing compared to how I do it. Then again, that blade almost demanded such heavy sealing since it was extremly fragile. I agree that going from inverted to lp takes time, but I thought he had played with hardbat before? So, he should be used to SP in ox? That's why I suggested a very thin sponge to begin with. But, I'm certainly not an expert with sp, the only rubber type I've never been able to play well with. Not that I'm good with the others, but at least I can reach a similar level with them, but not with sp... |
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The holy grail
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bluebucket
Platinum Member Joined: 02/20/2011 Location: 16 Status: Offline Points: 2882 |
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Yes well for chopping sp is better in 1.0mm or less even if you haven't used hardbat. Sp and inverted are nearly the same for chopping only sp is easier. The control on 1.5mm 802 is so great its almost no point going thinner but 1.0 is just a little better control wise
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NBSR
Super Member Joined: 01/12/2013 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 185 |
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This TG3 you are talking about, bluebucket, it's the non-Neo one? Not sure about the similarity of the H2 on a premade bat but my first "ITTF approved" bat was DHS x4002 which had H2 on the forehand. Not sure I'd be able to counter from mid-distance with that if necessary due to the low throw.
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firetack
Silver Member Joined: 10/18/2006 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 950 |
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Defplay is a great choice for a balance between loop attack/chop and block,although it`s difficult to gauge where your at without a little more info,but I can tell you for intermeddiate players this blade works very well.6 years ago when I started with this blade I too was an inverted bh chopper using tackiness c 1.1 which was great till we moved up a couple of diivisions then it was a struggle especially on serve return,enter long pips and an immediate improvement in everything and again I was competing but still searching for a more competitive f/h rubber.You are considering tack c 2 but I suspect that will not be strong enough and a tensor or high tension rubber is needed to loop effectively,the one that does it all for me is Tenergy 05fx spin and control/looparc is better than anything I have tried(at least 50 rubbers)and it chops as wel and dosn`t feel like a 32 degree rubberl,the thin sponged feint 3 makes a lot of backspin with a lot of control but does take time to master.The anigre top plies are very smooth and sealing them won`t really help imo,the problem is if you get a ding in the side the plies can lift when pealing a rubber off,solution?peal from a different side
The straight handle is too thin,best to get a flared and reduce it to straight much better feel in the hand. if you need any other info please ask ps the h2 played like crap for me but I like high throw on f/h
Edited by firetack - 03/02/2013 at 3:37pm |
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Black Balsa 3.0 fh/tenergy 05 1.9 388d ox
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NBSR
Super Member Joined: 01/12/2013 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 185 |
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So what would you recommend as a forehand rubber? (Non-tensor ones as I am sure I'm not ready for those). I'm unlikely to "move up a couple of divisions" as I only play for recreational, playing other people in a school lounge (but where others DO play in tournaments).
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NBSR
Super Member Joined: 01/12/2013 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 185 |
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I'm also wondering what if instead of an inverted rubber I stick 802-40 2.2mm on the forehand instead? Any idea on how that would play?
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bluebucket
Platinum Member Joined: 02/20/2011 Location: 16 Status: Offline Points: 2882 |
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The entire idea of chopping on the backhand is to setup a powerful forehand so you should really concentrate on learning that if possible rather than hitting with 802-40. If you dont think your forehand powers can work h2 yet they probably won't deal with tg3 (neo) either. If that's the case and you don't want something really fast or expensive you could try Mars ii in 34 degree. Firetack must be making a lot of spin with t05fx on the defplay but that would be very bouncy for a player learning the game.
Edited by bluebucket - 03/03/2013 at 5:59am |
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pingpongpaul
Super Member Joined: 12/15/2008 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 234 |
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My friend uses joola k5 with stiga chop and drive for bh and normal magna fh.
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Blade: Stiga OFF NCT (Penhold)
Forehand: DHS Hurricane 3 NEO 2.15 Backhand Coppa X1 turbo hard GLUE: COPYDEX YEY SOO CHEAP DIY TT ftw the win:) |
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ckhirnigs113
Super Member Joined: 09/23/2010 Location: Alabama Status: Offline Points: 327 |
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I recently got a Defplay Senso and my setup is Palio CJ8000 Japanese Sponge 36-38 on the FH and Feint Long III 0.5mm on the BH. I am really liking this setup. Have you ever tried the "Japanese Sponge" version of CJ8000? I find it loops, chops, and hits pretty well. FLIII is my first long pip, so I am still learning it. I went for the grippiest LP since I wanted a smooth transition from an inverted BH game.
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Blade: Victas Koji Matsushita FL
FH: Xiom Vega Japan MAX BH: TSP P-1R 1.0mm USATT Rating: 1947 |
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chopchopslam
Silver Member Joined: 09/28/2011 Location: Iowa Status: Offline Points: 703 |
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I tried 802 short pips on the FH for a little while. It's fine if you want to play mostly a blocking/chopping game, but I found I have a lot more success with the huge contrast between the spin I can generate on the inverted side vs. the long pips on the BH.
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Butterfly Grubba Pro
Tenergy 80 National Team Pogo LP .6mm |
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chris.b40
Platinum Member Joined: 03/12/2009 Status: Offline Points: 2505 |
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I'm using defplay now and it is great.
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AVALOX BLUE THUNDER
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ttvet86
Super Member Joined: 01/29/2008 Location: Ohio USA Status: Offline Points: 148 |
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I use Victas VS 401 on my forehand coupled with Curl P1R on backhand. Excellent chopping ability, good attack properties (I use 1.5 mm).
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asifgunz
Gold Member Joined: 09/15/2013 Location: Queens NY Status: Offline Points: 1448 |
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Tvet. I forget. Is it p1r or p4 that is grippy and has loopability similar to inverted?
How does victas compare to your p1r? |
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"I do not have any idols. I am my own idol." - Zhang Jike Feedback: http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=71761&PN=1#905629 |
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ttvet86
Super Member Joined: 01/29/2008 Location: Ohio USA Status: Offline Points: 148 |
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Not to get too off topic to the OP's original questions, I have these rubbers on a BTY Grubba Pro, which has a similar top ply as the Defplay, if not the same construction. The Victas VS 401 does well for me on this blade. The VS 401 is inverted, so I can't compare it to P1R but I can say that for me they complement each other quite well. |
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