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Butterfly ZJK super ZLC

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bbkon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/21/2016 at 9:54am
Originally posted by bard romance bard romance wrote:

Originally posted by bbkon bbkon wrote:

Originally posted by slevin slevin wrote:

Adding to the list of young users: Adriana Diaz (current US open women's champion) - ZJK Super ZLC


You gotta highlight the players that like the blade not the ones that play with szlc cos they get paid for it


Lmao, Butterfly doesn't force a blade on any of their sponsored players, they can choose whatever you want. I've seen you say this before though so it's pretty clear you're just an extreme case of one of those anti-Butterfly people.


Not true i played with flarestorm2 pips and I had like 5 sheets and one primorac carbon, the local butterfly dealer agrees about that the most users playing with SZLC are sponsored unlike tbs and mizutani
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bard romance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/21/2016 at 10:04am
Originally posted by bbkon bbkon wrote:

Originally posted by bard romance bard romance wrote:

Originally posted by bbkon bbkon wrote:

Originally posted by slevin slevin wrote:

Adding to the list of young users: Adriana Diaz (current US open women's champion) - ZJK Super ZLC


You gotta highlight the players that like the blade not the ones that play with szlc cos they get paid for it


Lmao, Butterfly doesn't force a blade on any of their sponsored players, they can choose whatever you want. I've seen you say this before though so it's pretty clear you're just an extreme case of one of those anti-Butterfly people.


Not true i played with flarestorm2 pips and I had like 5 sheets and one primorac carbon, the local butterfly dealer agrees about that the most users playing with SZLC are sponsored unlike tbs and mizutani

Obviously most people using a 400 dollar blade are gonna be the ones that can get it for free. That doesn't mean that Butterfly forces their sponsored players to use SZLC (they don't) which is what you implied in your original post. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bbkon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/21/2016 at 10:14am
Originally posted by bard romance bard romance wrote:

Originally posted by bbkon bbkon wrote:

Originally posted by bard romance bard romance wrote:

Originally posted by bbkon bbkon wrote:

Originally posted by slevin slevin wrote:

Adding to the list of young users: Adriana Diaz (current US open women's champion) - ZJK Super ZLC


You gotta highlight the players that like the blade not the ones that play with szlc cos they get paid for it


Lmao, Butterfly doesn't force a blade on any of their sponsored players, they can choose whatever you want. I've seen you say this before though so it's pretty clear you're just an extreme case of one of those anti-Butterfly people.


Not true i played with flarestorm2 pips and I had like 5 sheets and one primorac carbon, the local butterfly dealer agrees about that the most users playing with SZLC are sponsored unlike tbs and mizutani


Obviously most people using a 400 dollar blade are gonna be the ones that can get it for free. That doesn't mean that Butterfly forces their sponsored players to use SZLC (they don't) which is what you implied in your original post. 


Well I know a junior and an engineer that bought the blade and didnt liked and the 3rd player is an amateurish doctor who is playing with the szlc cos he likes expensive gear and the junior is 2400 coming from klhs and eventually returned to his old blade
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bard romance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/21/2016 at 10:26am
Never mind, lost brain cells

Edited by bard romance - 12/21/2016 at 10:27am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/22/2016 at 6:02pm
I think they are nice blades. Not sure i would be much influenced by fact that kids use them.

Most people wont buy them on impulse because of price, unlike other blades. I'm still amazed at how often people sell them here. For the price you might think people would hang on to them.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fatt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/22/2016 at 9:48pm
Each time I play somebody between 1400 and 1800 using a zjk szlc I like to underline the qualities of my blade and since like a lot of people I can be consistent when I know where the ball will land, they think my blade is cool and they are right but for the wrong reason.

Last time it was with my Vega Pro with M2 fh and T80fx bh (now I have Baracuda on the bh and I find it more predictable on that wing) and the person was suddenly better with my setup; AND I ENJOYED HERS MUCH BETTER THAN MINE (T05/T64 of course); so there is an hypnotic thing about the price; I am sure the same logic applies with expensive cars or steak houses: it's all about the money you spend and the satisfaction to belong to some "elite"; will I drive better with a mclaren 570s than a toyota supra from the 90's? or even capable to exploit the difference going from one to another? nope, BUT IT DOES FEEL BETTER. The touch of a ZJK SZLC is so true! I had pleasure hitting with it each time I used it but when I owned one I played matches like crap; unforced errors all the way; same with MJ SZLC.

I remain convinced the high price of those 2 blades is only about justifying the increase in price of all other popular blades: the Amultart used to cost $140; same for the MJ; what is the justification of such a difference in price for those 2 blades between 2009 and now? 

The idea of having the MJ SZLC and a ZJK SZLC was marketing mastery: they did not make much money out of the few suckers who bought them but they made a lot from all other blades pulled upwards in price by the 2 superstar blades.

rl gear ( •_•)O¯`·.¸.·´¯`°Q(•_•) feedback
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/23/2016 at 2:41am
Originally posted by fatt fatt wrote:

I remain convinced the high price of those 2 blades is only about justifying the increase in price of all other popular blades: the Amultart used to cost $140; same for the MJ; what is the justification of such a difference in price for those 2 blades between 2009 and now? The idea of having the MJ SZLC and a ZJK SZLC was marketing mastery


I cant imagine the materials cost much more now.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Victor_the_cleaner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/23/2016 at 8:53am
Again, most of this could be explained with the last years rise of the yen from 120 to 100. All Japanese products rose similarly. I am into fishing and I can tell you Daiwa and Shimano rose similarly and people were bitter in fishing forums as well. I am saying 'most of it' because i myself see that the US price in particular is higher than the market price, due to the FUCCCCCKKKING North America monopoly that Butterfly sold to one party, and later reinforced by stopping shipping from overseas. But you have to separate that from currency swings.
As for the latter, since the great day for America of electing the noble Mr. Trump, the dollar has just shot up in the air, up 15-20% against everything, even gold, and the yen in particular is almost back to 120. So look forward to a drop in Bty prices. It will come, even with the monopoly, I just dont know if it will come back as much as it went up.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote slevin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/23/2016 at 9:28am
VTC: I think that the main argument presented here is that the 2 SZLC blades were simply massively overpriced from the start (which I agree with).

I remember reading BTY's argument regarding their prices: that the SZLC fiber was so stiff and hard that they had to buy new and very expensive cutting machines just for them. Don't buy that.

Originally posted by fatt fatt wrote:

The touch of a ZJK SZLC is so true! I had pleasure hitting with it each time I used it but when I owned one I played matches like crap; unforced errors all the way; same with MJ SZLC.

This is a very common comment regarding both of these blades. IMHO,
  • the rebound of the incoming blades (as a function of incoming ball velocity) is very even throughout the face of the blade and very predictable / learnable
  • the above function is different from that of many common blades (like the Viscaria)
  • it takes a bit of time to completely learn and put to memory that rebound function (wrt incoming velocity)
  • once that is done, though; the extra stiffness combined with the extra large sweet spot make them high control blades.

Basically, you have to give it time (at least 2 months). After I have got used to MJ-SZLC, I tried adopting Donic Ovtcharov True Carbon (a slower blade). However, I often kept shooting the ball off the table with the DOTC. That does not happen when I go back to the MJ-SZLC. I have to give DOTC up. Perhaps now, flex = lack of control for me.

To me, the only disadvantage of these blades is slightly slower FH-BH transition due to stiffness.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/23/2016 at 9:34am
400 bucks for an sZLC predated currency swings.  it is a marketing strategy along the lines fatt suggested.  As long as people still buy their stuff, why shouldn't they do it?  They are probably wondering now high they can get away with.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote notgooord Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/23/2016 at 11:22am
I think Jiang tianyi was using it.
Now using ebenholz.
Also maybe Feng tianwri used it.
Now with viscaria.

I know a guy who uses it.
He's ok, like 2300 US.
I dont think its such a bad investment.
A blade can last for your whole life.
He bought it maybe 3 years ago?
It's 100$ a year, for something you do many days a week.

The problem is for ejs who buy many blades, use them once and throw them in the closet.

Edited by notgooord - 12/23/2016 at 11:40am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Victor_the_cleaner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/23/2016 at 11:41am
I bought my ZJK SZLC for $274 from ttjapan. I assume ttjapan made profit.  I ended up selling it here for $250, which i thought was a good deal, to lose only 24 buck for testing expensive blade, but now I wish I kept it... : ) 
20% on 274 blade is $55. ANd it costs more than that to buy from here. 
Cutting on the overseas shipping really hurt. 
But as bitter as I am, and believe me, I really wish all the worst for Christmas for whoever owns the BTY NA monopoly, the ugly fact is that Butterfly blades are worth even this outrageous price. This is the REAL DEFINITION OF VALUE. Not what a blade is made of or how much it costs to produce. The only definition of value is how much others are willing (voluntarily) to exchange for it. There are thousands and thousands of much cheaper blades on the market with, honestly, very similar characteristics, and yet people keep buying Butterfly. Until that changes, until the  competition is perceived as similar in value to BTY, I am afraid not much can be done, but weeping in these forums


Edited by Victor_the_cleaner - 12/23/2016 at 11:42am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SmackDAT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/23/2016 at 4:18pm
Originally posted by bard romance bard romance wrote:

Never mind, lost brain cells
LOL post of the year
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bbkon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/24/2016 at 10:43pm
Originally posted by SmackDAT SmackDAT wrote:

Originally posted by bard romance bard romance wrote:

Never mind, lost brain cells

LOL post of the year


Headline news "Bty fanboi shots to death user who bashed a butterfly blade"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bard romance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/24/2016 at 10:51pm
Originally posted by bbkon bbkon wrote:

Originally posted by SmackDAT SmackDAT wrote:

Originally posted by bard romance bard romance wrote:

Never mind, lost brain cells

LOL post of the year


Headline news "Bty fanboi shots to death user who bashed a butterfly blade"


You're right man some doctor didn't like szlc therefore butterfly forces their players to use szlc. You right man. Guess I was lied to by my butterfly sponsored friends over the years.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/24/2016 at 11:07pm
bard romance,

I hope you read my earlier post on this issue, it is not worth it.  There are times I have made posts about something and had an extremely weird comment from bbkon out of now where addressing something else and quoting me as if I said what he was addressing.

Unless you get some value out of this, don't do it.
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
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BH: Vega Pro 2.0 R
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No train, no gain.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bard romance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/24/2016 at 11:09pm
Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

bard romance,

I hope you read my earlier post on this issue, it is not worth it.  There are times I have made posts about something and had an extremely weird comment from bbkon out of now where addressing something else and quoting me as if I said what he was addressing.

Unless you get some value out of this, don't do it.

Guess it's a habitual thing then. Moving on...lol Wacko
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bbkon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/25/2016 at 7:55am
Originally posted by bard romance bard romance wrote:

Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

bard romance,

I hope you read my earlier post on this issue, it is not worth it.  There are times I have made posts about something and had an extremely weird comment from bbkon out of now where addressing something else and quoting me as if I said what he was addressing.

Unless you get some value out of this, don't do it.


Guess it's a habitual thing then. Moving on...lol Wacko


Yeh right i m butthurt by your infinite wisdom bard romance

Edited by bbkon - 12/25/2016 at 7:57am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bbkon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/25/2016 at 8:02am
Originally posted by bard romance bard romance wrote:

Originally posted by bbkon bbkon wrote:

Originally posted by SmackDAT SmackDAT wrote:

Originally posted by bard romance bard romance wrote:

Never mind, lost brain cells

LOL post of the year


Headline news "Bty fanboi shots to death user who bashed a butterfly blade"


You're right man some doctor didn't like szlc therefore butterfly forces their players to use szlc. You right man. Guess I was lied to by my butterfly sponsored friends over the years.


I never said butterfly should force you to buy the szlc and Not praising slzc blades its a sin for you..cheers for your top20 friends
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote slevin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/10/2017 at 3:50pm
So, the partial list to see if the ZLC / SZLC blades caught on with young players on our side of the pond is amended (with amendments in red):

Girls:
Adriana Diaz: ZJK-SZLC
Crystal Wang: ZJK-SZLC (prior, she used ZJK-ZLC. Prior to that, she used MJ-ZLC)
Anqi Luo: ZJK-SZLC
Jianqi Zheng: Amultart ZLC
Yadira Silva: IF-ZLC
Rachel Sung: MJ-ZLC
Mo Zhang: ZJK-SZLC

Boys:
Jack Wang: TB-ZLC
Nikhil Kumar: ZJK-ZLC
Victor Liu: ZJK-SZLC
Brian Afanador: IF-ZLC
Daniel Gonzalez: IF-ZLC
Alexander BU: IF-ZLC



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote piligrim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/10/2017 at 5:47pm
wow. looks like blades with zylon much more popular then with arilat ...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sunny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/11/2017 at 10:17am
Originally posted by SmackDAT SmackDAT wrote:

Originally posted by bard romance bard romance wrote:

Never mind, lost brain cells
LOL post of the year

I bought my JM SZLC from TTJapan especially they are one of the rare ones who sell straight handle but now they don't offer anything in Butterfly to other countries. Can't see Butterfly on their website. Butterfly turned them too to only sell in local market.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/11/2017 at 10:28am
Originally posted by piligrim piligrim wrote:

wow. looks like blades with zylon much more popular then with arilat ...


Among a subset of North American kids.  (Mo Zhang is not a kid though).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote slevin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/11/2017 at 11:17am
Added back Filip.

Girls:
Adriana Diaz: ZJK-SZLC
Crystal Wang: ZJK-SZLC (prior, she used ZJK-ZLC. Prior to that, she used MJ-ZLC)
Anqi Luo: ZJK-SZLC
Jianqi Zheng: Amultart ZLC
Yadira Silva: IF-ZLC
Rachel Sung: MJ-ZLC
Mo Zhang: ZJK-SZLC

Boys:
Jack Wang: TB-ZLC
Nikhil Kumar: ZJK-ZLC
Victor Liu: ZJK-SZLC
Brian Afanador: IF-ZLC
Daniel Gonzalez: IF-ZLC
Alexander BU: IF-ZLC
Filip Ilijevski: MJ-ZLC
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/11/2017 at 11:27am
Originally posted by sunny sunny wrote:

Originally posted by SmackDAT SmackDAT wrote:

Originally posted by bard romance bard romance wrote:

Never mind, lost brain cells
LOL post of the year

I bought my JM SZLC from TTJapan especially they are one of the rare ones who sell straight handle but now they don't offer anything in Butterfly to other countries. Can't see Butterfly on their website. Butterfly turned them too to only sell in local market.

I hate Butterfly as a business
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/11/2017 at 1:52pm
Btfly definitely does not care about making friends among their customers.  It would help if the people they chose to be their distributors in various places were....     better at their job.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/11/2017 at 2:28pm
Butterfly is doing everything within its power to alleviate...[cough]facilitate[/cough] your brand withdrawal symptom, as well as "looking after" fellow brands.

Edited by zeio - 01/11/2017 at 2:31pm
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bard romance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/11/2017 at 2:33pm
Originally posted by zeio zeio wrote:

Butterfly is doing everything within its power to alleviate...[cough]facilitate[/cough] your brand withdrawal symptom, as well as "looking after" fellow brands.

Details?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/11/2017 at 2:52pm
I for one am delighted to see many very nice ALC blades from Donic, Tibhar and Yasaka, among others.  I can personally vouch for the True Carbon.  And since it is nice, to hell with Btfly.

By the way, one thing about blade choices with cadets and juniors is that it will be interesting to see what they might be using a bit later on, when they are bigger and stronger.  Will they stick with the same thing because they are comfortable with it?  Or maybe will they go with something different?  (Of course, since we are talking about North American juniors, we may never find out because in a lot of cases these kids will stop playing at 18 to focus on their studies at elite American universities.  This is not an altogether bad thing.)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BMonkey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/11/2017 at 3:37pm
Originally posted by sunny sunny wrote:

Originally posted by SmackDAT SmackDAT wrote:

Originally posted by bard romance bard romance wrote:

Never mind, lost brain cells
LOL post of the year

I bought my JM SZLC from TTJapan especially they are one of the rare ones who sell straight handle but now they don't offer anything in Butterfly to other countries. Can't see Butterfly on their website. Butterfly turned them too to only sell in local market.
As I understood it, Butterfly said they'd revoke distributor status if a distributor didn't comply with Butterfly's policy. I find it highly questionable.

I wish that other manufacturers would increase their presence at US tournaments with equipment booths. For example, it'd be awesome if Paddle Palace acted as a sponsor of the JOOLA tour one year and had a booth at all the JOOLA dates. I'd love to try before I buy and find equivalents to butterfly blades.
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