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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LoopsALot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/24/2013 at 3:12pm
Originally posted by DeIgado DeIgado wrote:


Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Delgado,
By the way, I'm fairly sure you are relatively young if not very much so.  It is usually youth that bolsters such ambitions.  Don't however be surprised if you don't get much higher than the blocker's rating after years of practice.

After 4 years of self learning I hit 2025.


Bam!

I believe at this point NextLevel has to say what's his rating and years of experience. :)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/24/2013 at 3:25pm
Originally posted by LoopsALot LoopsALot wrote:

Originally posted by DeIgado DeIgado wrote:


Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Delgado,
By the way, I'm fairly sure you are relatively young if not very much so.  It is usually youth that bolsters such ambitions.  Don't however be surprised if you don't get much higher than the blocker's rating after years of practice.

After 4 years of self learning I hit 2025.


Bam!

I believe at this point NextLevel has to say what's his rating and years of experience. :)
 
No, I don't.  But most people already know that I'm in the 1700s, and in my late 30s, and most people don't know that I am seriously arthritic and have terrible knees, and fewer people know that in July, I would have played seriously for two years with periods of a few months off in between for personal reasons.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pondus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/24/2013 at 3:28pm
Reaching a rating of 2025 in just 4 years is awesome, Delgado... way to go. :)

I'll have to get at you next time I come to Florida to hit a few.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pondus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/24/2013 at 3:31pm
Sorry to hear about your knees and arthoritis, NextLevel... I'm 39 myself and it's hard to witness the slow "deterioration" of my body due to aging. I imagine the even older folks rolling their eyes saying: "pfwww... late 30s... wait till you're 60... then you'll know how horrible your body can really feel." :)

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/24/2013 at 3:49pm
Originally posted by Pondus Pondus wrote:

Sorry to hear about your knees and arthoritis, NextLevel... I'm 39 myself and it's hard to witness the slow "deterioration" of my body due to aging. I imagine the even older folks rolling their eyes saying: "pfwww... late 30s... wait till you're 60... then you'll know how horrible your body can really feel." :)

 
Thanks man, but I have no mercy on the opponent even if they come in with a walking stick, so I really don't make it an issue.   I wish I had the body of someone my age with the care I have taken - would have played like a looper and made some people really scared.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DeIgado Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/24/2013 at 6:23pm
Originally posted by Pondus Pondus wrote:

Reaching a rating of 2025 in just 4 years is awesome, Delgado... way to go. :)

I'll have to get at you next time I come to Florida to hit a few.


Yea let me know. I play at the clubs in central florida.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pongfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/24/2013 at 6:52pm
Table Tennis Fanatics,
Thanks for watching my video and commenting.
I found one of my videos from 15 months ago with the same competitors. I actually have about a dozen videos of Martin because he is such a pleasure to watch. He is a gentleman and a sportsman and he keeps the ball in play over and over. Everton cause a bit of a stir with his mini Mohawk!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote assiduous Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/25/2013 at 2:27am
Wow, I am really terrible at guessing ratings. I would have bet my house the blocker is 1750. He has nothing, really nothing, i do not understand. We used to have a chinese penhold blocker at the club that was just over 2000, his block were low and punched  into corners every time and he really jams you, blocks were so fast. He also had a full open arm swing to kill high balls. I can never imagine the guy on the video is close to him. I really can't believe this. Same like when I first saw Pushblocker and found he was 2200. I thought it was a prank.

Edited by assiduous - 06/25/2013 at 2:27am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote benfb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/25/2013 at 2:51am
Originally posted by DeIgado DeIgado wrote:

Yea let me know. I play at the clubs in central florida.


After the Open next week, I'm flying out to the Ft. Walton Beach airport in Florida for a couple of days to meet up with family.  I have no idea what actual town I'll be staying at, but what clubs might be around in that area?

Thanks.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/25/2013 at 6:25am
It seems that too many people are watching the highlights video of this match and aren't even watching Martin's other matches, where he shows he can do third ball attacks.  Highlight reels give the wrong impression.

I looked at Martin's history on USATT Ratings website and he once took a game off a 2500 player.   People should just stop acting as if because they don't see him outloop people in highlights that he is a scrub.   Table tennis is about much more than dancing around and spinning the ball hard.  He is not a looper so his game looks weird to people who only think about looping.  But hitters and blockers understand his game.  Blocking loops early off the bounce over and over is not as easy as it looks.  Having looked at his game, I'm fairly sure that if he finds the right opposition, he will start hitting some of those loops.


Edited by NextLevel - 06/25/2013 at 6:38am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote assiduous Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/25/2013 at 11:41am
He is doing everything wrong. I guess it is possible to go even higher - look at Pushblocker. That changes nothing. He's doing everything wrong. Here is a rule of thumb that I have found very reliable - if it looks ugly, he is doing something wrong. The correct strokes look very harmonic cooperation between all parts of the body, everything looks natural. Even if he wants to block and defend, he is still doing it wrong. If he wants to be a blocker just watch the entire japanese national team, bar Mizutani. They live off blocking. 

I have to give him one thing though, that does deserve respect - his rating. No matter what you think of his strokes, that rating is hard to achieve. I am very proud of my strokes but I am yet to touch 1800. I know how hard it is. And I imagine it's even harder to compete with strokes like this. You must compensate with extra focus and consistency. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bonggoy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/25/2013 at 12:12pm
Originally posted by assiduous assiduous wrote:


I have to give him one thing though, that does deserve respect - his rating. No matter what you think of his strokes, that rating is hard to achieve. I am very proud of my strokes but I am yet to touch 1800. I know how hard it is. And I imagine it's even harder to compete with strokes like this. You must compensate with extra focus and consistency. 


Touch, anticipation, great use of angle and reads spin really well. He attacks when he needs to. I am one of those 2000 looper with beautiful strokes (or so I been told). He will beat me like Ike beats Tina.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote JimT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/25/2013 at 1:08pm
Originally posted by assiduous assiduous wrote:

Wow, I am really terrible at guessing ratings. I would have bet my house the blocker is 1750. He has nothing, really nothing, i do not understand. We used to have a chinese penhold blocker at the club that was just over 2000, his block were low and punched  into corners every time and he really jams you, blocks were so fast. He also had a full open arm swing to kill high balls. I can never imagine the guy on the video is close to him. I really can't believe this. Same like when I first saw Pushblocker and found he was 2200. I thought it was a prank.


I played a 1800-rated girl last year who (lots of respect to her for that) after the tournament came up to me and asked what she was doing wrong. It seemed to her that she was on the offensive, doing the right strokes, always in control - the games were all relatively close, like 11-8 (in my favor).

And I wasn't really doing anything (in your parlance, I "had nothing"). At the same time she clearly understood (especially after watching me play other guys) that she had no chance against me - the ball was always coming back to her (well, not always but you know what I mean), going where she didn't expect it, forcing her off balance or simply coming back too fast off my blocks or with deceptive spin off my pushes and rolls.

So I had a short talk with her about control, deception, thinking ahead one move more than your opponent, making sure you are balanced, etc etc. She basically defeated herself by following my scenario - I forced her to go for riskier shots, to attack even when she was not ready or when I was already in good position to counterattack etc.

So if it seems to you that this guy "has nothing", think again. He's got plenty. He just plays to his strengths which are different from what you think are common strengths in table tennis game.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pongfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/25/2013 at 1:12pm
Originally posted by chunyenliu chunyenliu wrote:

I was at this tournament also.
Obviously not from the U2200 final, but a great shot of you!
Hope you like.


Edited by pongfan - 06/25/2013 at 2:48pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bogeyhunter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/25/2013 at 3:29pm
Originally posted by JimT JimT wrote:



So if it seems to you that this guy "has nothing", think again. He's got plenty. He just plays to his strengths which are different from what you think are common strengths in table tennis game.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote assiduous Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/25/2013 at 6:37pm
well I guess not nothing. He has one thing - the ability to return the ball back to the other half of the table even via an ugly shot. But that's it. He sits like a statue in the middle of the table, no footwork, receives everything with BH, zero loop, poor serve, poor serve receive, even his chops are too damm high. The only points he won were opponent error or smack of occasional pop-up. I don't remember a single occasion where he takes initiative and actually earns a point. Black dude was doing all the work every single point and he deserved the win. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roundrobin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/25/2013 at 6:49pm
Originally posted by assiduous assiduous wrote:

well I guess not nothing. He has one thing - the ability to return the ball back to the other half of the table even via an ugly shot. But that's it. He sits like a statue in the middle of the table, no footwork, receives everything with BH, zero loop, poor serve, poor serve receive, even his chops are too damm high. The only points he won were opponent error or smack of occasional pop-up. I don't remember a single occasion where he takes initiative and actually earns a point. Black dude was doing all the work every single point and he deserved the win. 


Man you crack me up... The other dude did "all the work" but was unable to penetrate this blocker's defence to score points...but he still deserves the win?  Wink  Is this rhythm gymnastics where the judges give you points for being stylish?  LOL




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote assiduous Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/25/2013 at 7:51pm
no, what I meant was that in order for this whole paddle-ball-table-paddle business to qualify for table tennis one of the participants needs to play table tennis. Black dude did. The other dude played some ninja basement ping-pong kung-fu, not exactly sure what the hell he thinks he is doing, but obviously it has nothing in common with the beautiful olympic sport of Table Tennis. They should make a separate sport, perhaps name it Basement Ping-Pong JUDO, and have roundrobin, JimT, that dude from the video, and everyone else who has an excuse to learn to play proper table tennis compete there.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JacekGM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/25/2013 at 8:56pm
assiduous... strange,  but I wholeheartedly agree with you. I still need to think why, but I do... 
Maybe because this is not about winning but rather about playing? I think the blocker guy over the years has specialized in playing against people with normal, attacking styles. 
I guess this is a mutated defensive style. He is good at scoring though... we have to live with that.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roundrobin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/25/2013 at 10:29pm
Originally posted by JacekGM JacekGM wrote:

assiduous... strange,  but I wholeheartedly agree with you. I still need to think why, but I do... 
Maybe because this is not about winning but rather about playing? I think the blocker guy over the years has specialized in playing against people with normal, attacking styles. 
I guess this is a mutated defensive style. He is good at scoring though... we have to live with that.


This is one strange post.  What the heck is a "normal" style?  Some people love to loop everything, thinking they can just blow people away from the table, and they love the feeling of invincibility.  Hey, nothing wrong with that.  Smile  Other players, however, like to block these not-so-accomplished attackers to death, but that to you is not "normal" but "mutated"?  Wink 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote smackman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/25/2013 at 10:52pm
I thought every table tennis player blocks at times regardless of level
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LUCKYLOOP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/25/2013 at 11:11pm
Waldner, when he was in his prime, basically played a blocking game first then finesse and hitting, whatever was needed to win.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BH-Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/26/2013 at 12:52am
I know RR knows how to attack, and ditto for JimT. The dude in the vid, yes he did primarily block, but I believe it was because that is what he decided gave him higher percentage chances to control the rally and win points. I already said and will say again, I bet lunch that dude from the vid could play as an attacker (effectively) if he chose to do so. Heck, anyone accusing defensive minded Bogeyhunter of not knowing how to attack would be plumb of their mind, even if his first choice is to defend if an easy chance doesn't present itself. It's about playing within one's capabilities, confidence and percentages.
What made his style look "Basement Judo" (Haha, I simply LOVE that term. Gunna add it to my slang database!), what made that dude's plying style look unconventional and comic basement was his jumping antics right after the block. I think I called it something like Donkey Kong Hop or something like that. dude obviously had a plan and stuck to what was earing him points.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Everton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/26/2013 at 12:55am
Thanks for the compliments on the video and my backhand ;)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tt4me Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/26/2013 at 1:16am
Originally posted by Everton Everton wrote:

Thanks for the compliments on the video and my backhand ;)
Your serves were definitely superior.
Good play.  I know it is hard to look good against a blocker-hitter like your opponent.  I am a blocker-hitter too.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Imago Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/26/2013 at 1:18am
So, basically, more experienced and well ranked players say that no matter how screwed up and twisted your footwork and strokes are, the results vindicate all your clownade. I'll ask these highly esteemed community members again - would you allow your children to learn table tennis from such otherweise successful players?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Everton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/26/2013 at 1:48am
Thanks tt4me about the compliment on the serves. 

Interesting discussion on the match, 
Some facts that watching cannot tell about the game.
Those pushes are really heavy backspin and the blocks play like antispin sometimes

As the saying goes, hindsight is 20/20 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bonggoy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/26/2013 at 9:13am
Originally posted by assiduous assiduous wrote:

no, what I meant was that in order for this whole paddle-ball-table-paddle business to qualify for table tennis one of the participants needs to play table tennis. Black dude did. The other dude played some ninja basement ping-pong kung-fu, not exactly sure what the hell he thinks he is doing, but obviously it has nothing in common with the beautiful olympic sport of Table Tennis. They should make a separate sport, perhaps name it Basement Ping-Pong JUDO, and have roundrobin, JimT, that dude from the video, and everyone else who has an excuse to learn to play proper table tennis compete there.


Like this dude?



He does the same jerking motion when blocking. Very tall yet stands upright. Only uses one side. What a joke.


;)

Edited by bonggoy - 06/26/2013 at 9:14am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JimT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/26/2013 at 9:27am
Originally posted by Imago Imago wrote:

So, basically, more experienced and well ranked players say that no matter how screwed up and twisted your footwork and strokes are, the results vindicate all your clownade. I'll ask these highly esteemed community members again - would you allow your children to learn table tennis from such otherweise successful players?


Huh... here is the thing. While I absolutely agree that it is their prerogative to use whatever style they like most, I would prefer my kids to learn basic technique and strokes from a coach with a more mainstream standards. Later on in life they surely will develop their own styles, acquire their own quirks etc. but in the beginning they need to try to get the solid basic technique with two inverted and regular SH grip.

As I said, they will shift into their own style anyway.

Also - if these theoretical high-ranked but non-standard players were coaching, I am pretty sure they would bring up their students with the standard technique and grip anyway. At least, at first. I know some former pro LP choppers - they do not start teaching kids by putting pips on their BH.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pondus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/26/2013 at 9:57am
Here's a more recent video of Eric Boggan, who still has a US Rating of 2500 – playing Chen Zihao (2537):



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