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Is kiso hinoki wood really good?.

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JacekGM View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote JacekGM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/01/2018 at 12:42pm
Originally posted by fmarek fmarek wrote:

My 5 cents to the subject. 

Being relatively new to TT, about 1 year of active play, I was in that "search for perfect equipment" mode for a while. I am sure experienced players know what I am talking about. Spoiler - kiso hinoki blade stopped that ej-rush :) 


Ok, what you wrote reflects very well how you feel about this equipment.
But, as I read it, it occurred to me that with each new training you were adding some good percentage of your overall club play experience (because you were relatively new). No wonder you saw improvement, and since the more expensive equipment will often "feel better in the hand" anyways, that's what you actually recorded. But I can be totally wrong here...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Matt Pimple Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/01/2018 at 12:42pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hleett Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/01/2018 at 2:41pm
Originally posted by Ranger-man Ranger-man wrote:

......
In the end, I also agree with what fmarek said about the cost of the Darker blade when you can get other Kiso Hinoki blades for less. The two will have subtle differences, but most people will not notice. The differences my guess is from the age of the trees because now there are Hinoki farms in Japan as well which grow Hinoki trees. These are younger, and are grown in controlled environments where that are not always among the different kinds of trees and ecological experiences that Kiso Hinoki trees are exposed too for centuries. The age of the tree causes changes in the wood density, etc. But as I said, subtle. You won't really lose out. 

I agree with all my heart and like to add the fact that "you get what you paid for". The quality of the wood and workmanship of the DS90 is Soooo much better than other so called "Kiso" hinoki woods. You'll see what I mean when you put them side by side. The old Chinese saying: 不怕不識貨,最怕貨比貨. Here is a photo with DS90 on top and Miyabi on the bottom. Let me know if you want to see more photo comparisons. And yes the DS90 does play better than the Miyabi IMHO.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fmarek Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/01/2018 at 5:40pm
RE: Let me know if you want to see more photo comparisons.

Yes I would like to see more photos, cause your Darker does look good, rings are so dense!

But I prefer not to compare. There is no such thing on its own as better playing. It is subjective and usually need to be viewed in the context, isn't it?  I could only compare between those I did in the post cause original thread is about Hinoki from Kiso versus other Cypress.

I personally haven't played DS90 but obviously want to try with all the respect to this piece of art.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fmarek Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/01/2018 at 5:47pm
Originally posted by JacekGM JacekGM wrote:

Originally posted by fmarek fmarek wrote:

My 5 cents to the subject. 

Being relatively new to TT, about 1 year of active play, I was in that "search for perfect equipment" mode for a while. I am sure experienced players know what I am talking about. Spoiler - kiso hinoki blade stopped that ej-rush :) 


Ok, what you wrote reflects very well how you feel about this equipment.
But, as I read it, it occurred to me that with each new training you were adding some good percentage of your overall club play experience (because you were relatively new). No wonder you saw improvement, and since the more expensive equipment will often "feel better in the hand" anyways, that's what you actually recorded. But I can be totally wrong here...

Thanks for your comment. Well it's not that expensive, just $100 USD, but it's actually on the top side what I am ready to invest into blade as TT is my hobby. When I wrote about better feeling I meant the moment of ball impacting the racket. It is somewhat unique.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote hleett Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/01/2018 at 6:58pm
I think I had posted these 2 b4 but here they are again. 
DS90


Miyabi

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fmarek Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/01/2018 at 11:48pm
Looks like a quality product indeed. I am not even attempting to count how many lines are there.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ranger-man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/02/2018 at 5:54am
The density of the grain is where it is all at. Suggests really old trees and that is where the rarity comes in. That is also one of the factors effecting how the wood plays. It becomes faster as it ages, but still retains the soft touch. It also becomes less prone to water damage, or cracking right down the middle the more it ages. 
The straightness of the grain suggests that it is perfectly quarter sawn. Quarter sawing is what makes the plate susceptible to cracking right down the middle but it is also the best way to cut it to make the blade. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hleett Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/02/2018 at 12:20pm
From the middle of the blade you can count that there are 12 annual rings per centimeter, multiply by 15cm(width of blade), you get 180 annual rings. So the whole tree would probably has at least 300 annual rings/300 year old. Just my wild guess, I stand corrected.


And talking about straight grains...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Simas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/05/2018 at 4:32am
When I read fmarek, ranger -man, hleett posts, I felt like watching a chef grilling a juicy steak while eating broccoli :)

That is a very bad thread for all recovering EJunkies :D
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DonnOlsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/05/2018 at 11:31am
Hi,

From my understanding it does not seem there is an Off- kiso hinoki shakehands blade on the market.

Thanks,
Donn
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hleett Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/05/2018 at 1:52pm
[Simas : When I read fmarek, ranger -man, hleett posts, I felt like watching a chef grilling a juicy steak while eating broccoli :)]
Don't just eat broccoli and watch. Come join the party and eat some juicy kiso hinoki kobe steak!Tongue

[DonnOlsen : Hi,
From my understanding it does not seem there is an Off- kiso hinoki shakehands blade on the market.
Thanks,]
Yes, all the hinoki blades I know are OFF to OFF+. DS90=2131Hz to 2325Hz, Miyabi=2110HZ, BBC 1 ply cypress=1872 to 2100Hz, Bishu no.1 Specialist=2045Hz.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fmarek Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/06/2018 at 7:19am
Originally posted by hleett hleett wrote:

Yes, all the hinoki blades I know are OFF to OFF+. DS90=2131Hz to 2325Hz, Miyabi=2110HZ, BBC 1 ply cypress=1872 to 2100Hz, Bishu no.1 Specialist=2045Hz.

What is the range for Off-, A+, A? 

How this is measured?


Edited by fmarek - 12/06/2018 at 8:04am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HuLimei Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/06/2018 at 8:35am
Originally posted by fmarek fmarek wrote:

What is the range for Off-, A+, A? 
How this is measured?
You bounce the ball on it and compare to other blades that have a speed label. You're never gonna get an accurate speed range anyway because:

"uhhh 85.5g blade plays so so soooooooooo different frum uh 85.62g blade"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Simas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/08/2018 at 10:38am
Originally posted by hleett hleett wrote:

Don't just eat broccoli and watch. Come join the party and eat some juicy kiso hinoki kobe steak!Tongue


I am doing my best to resist my inner EJ. (Don't know how long I can hold on, because Christmas is coming.... :)  ) I am curious how hinoki plays, so maybe it's worth buying just to try and maybe I'll find it better than my current setup with which I am pretty happy...

P.S. Anyways I won't be buying Kobe Hinoki (a.k.a darker hinoki:) ) anytime soon, but Nittaku Miyabi would sounds more reasonable for the first date


Edited by Simas - 12/08/2018 at 10:42am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ranger-man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/08/2018 at 11:49am
Originally posted by Simas Simas wrote:

Originally posted by hleett hleett wrote:

Don't just eat broccoli and watch. Come join the party and eat some juicy kiso hinoki kobe steak!Tongue


I am doing my best to resist my inner EJ. (Don't know how long I can hold on, because Christmas is coming.... :)  ) I am curious how hinoki plays, so maybe it's worth buying just to try and maybe I'll find it better than my current setup with which I am pretty happy...

P.S. Anyways I won't be buying Kobe Hinoki (a.k.a darker hinoki:) ) anytime soon, but Nittaku Miyabi would sounds more reasonable for the first date

Simas, if you can only ever buy one Hinoki blade ever, and to buy it you need to wait, by Darker. You won't know how it plays, by using any other Hinoki blade. It is hard to describe in words how every shot just works when I use that blade, compared to everything else that I have.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fmarek Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/08/2018 at 6:21pm
Originally posted by Simas Simas wrote:

I am doing my best to resist my inner EJ. 

Does it need to be like that? I mean what could be wrong in getting few blades a year to support our TT hobby? When I think about costs of other activities it makes me smile. For example, my friend and neighbour likes cycling. These days "proper" carbon frame for bicycle costs like 10 Darker blades and then set of wheels like 10 Miyabis or so.

In my case I settled down on Miyabi and do not want to change blade at all. But I am still curious how other blades play, for example, I never tried any of balsa blades. I read about balsa wood (there are few very good blogs about it) but never had a chance to try. Also I am currently in conversation with coach and blade maker from "i love ping pong" cause I want to order customised cpen hinoki blade gift for my all time TT opponent.


Edited by fmarek - 12/08/2018 at 7:15pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vanjr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/08/2018 at 9:56pm
If I lived in, or was from Oklahoma, I would always sing:
"I'm proud to be an Okie who plays with hinoki"

Edited by vanjr - 12/08/2018 at 9:57pm
Gambler Hinoki Vector blade; Double inverted.I can't seem to commit....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Simas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/10/2018 at 6:31am
Originally posted by fmarek fmarek wrote:

Originally posted by Simas Simas wrote:

I am doing my best to resist my inner EJ. 

Does it need to be like that? I mean what could be wrong in getting few blades a year to support our TT hobby? When I think about costs of other activities it makes me smile. For example, my friend and neighbour likes cycling. These days "proper" carbon frame for bicycle costs like 10 Darker blades and then set of wheels like 10 Miyabis or so.

In my case I settled down on Miyabi and do not want to change blade at all. But I am still curious how other blades play, for example, I never tried any of balsa blades. I read about balsa wood (there are few very good blogs about it) but never had a chance to try. Also I am currently in conversation with coach and blade maker from "i love ping pong" cause I want to order customised cpen hinoki blade gift for my all time TT opponent.

Couldn't agree more. Table tennis is a cheap sport for sure. You don't need to rent a court, buy a car and so on... so we are lucky about that... 

And I am also very curious about different setups and I like buying TT stuff too :D That's why Hinoki is next in line on my list although I don't really need it at the moment, as I am ok with my current setup. (As Balsta too, as Xiomi, which released a hybrid blade and I wonder how does it feel to play with such a blade... and the list goes on). 

Also too much of EJ doesn't help your game... and once you start looking for your next best blade it's hard to stop....


Edited by Simas - 12/10/2018 at 6:33am
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