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The most spinny long pips?

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kolevtt View Drop Down
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    Posted: 08/18/2013 at 4:23am
Hello,

I'll be glad to know which brand has the most spinny long pips? I have tested many long pips during the years, but up to this moment only rubbers without the new stamp with numbers and just a few from the new. I need long pips with 1.0mm thickness sponge that will be amazing on heavy chop, easy for attack near to the table with good disturbing effect. Up to this time only Giant Dragon Meteorite is near to this kind of long pips. I tested Dr.Neubaer Allround yesterday and I found this rubber is not so dangerous. What about Tibhar Grass Flex? Anyone tried it?
Thank you!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mattythegunner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/18/2013 at 12:42pm
I have found dhs c8 to be the spinniest, you should try them out.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tt4me Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/18/2013 at 1:50pm
Why not simply get some medium pips?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ZApenholder Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/18/2013 at 1:54pm
TSP P4 Curl
I got loop with it just like using short pimple
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote IanMcg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/18/2013 at 5:42pm
Originally posted by kolevtt kolevtt wrote:

Hello,

I'll be glad to know which brand has the most spinny long pips? I have tested many long pips during the years, but up to this moment only rubbers without the new stamp with numbers and just a few from the new. I need long pips with 1.0mm thickness sponge that will be amazing on heavy chop, easy for attack near to the table with good disturbing effect. Up to this time only Giant Dragon Meteorite is near to this kind of long pips. I tested Dr.Neubaer Allround yesterday and I found this rubber is not so dangerous. What about Tibhar Grass Flex? Anyone tried it?
Thank you!
Sounds like what you're looking for is DHS Cloud and Fog III.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote beeray1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/18/2013 at 6:26pm
C-8 and CK531A are both good options. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LUCKYLOOP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/18/2013 at 6:58pm
Another option is Giant Dragon Crop circles. I get more disturbing effect than with any other LP I have used or even played against. Good attack not sure about 1.0 as I use OX.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nathanso Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/18/2013 at 7:46pm
Crop Circles. +1
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bluebucket Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/18/2013 at 8:32pm
Ck531a is actually one of the most slippery long pips. P4 and fient long 3 are spinny
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GeneralSpecific Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/18/2013 at 9:01pm
Originally posted by bluebucket bluebucket wrote:

Ck531a is actually one of the most slippery long pips. P4 and fient long 3 are spinny


+1
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote skip3119 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/18/2013 at 11:22pm
Originally posted by bluebucket bluebucket wrote:

Ck531a is actually one of the most slippery long pips. P4 and fient long 3 are spinny
======================================
 
Is CK531a OX great for blocking - spin reversal (or spin continuation)?
(Slippery means less friction or near frictionless.)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cole_ely Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/19/2013 at 12:03am
You can't have a lot of spin and disturbing effect at the same time.

I think my spiniest lp is regular 388d
Wavestone St with Illumina 1.9r, defender1.7b

Please let me know if I can be of assistance.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bluebucket Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/19/2013 at 1:42am
388d1 or d is the most spinny per dollar lp for sure and yes the red ox ck531a is a good blocking rubber for disturbing effect. Just good for the dollar like 388d1 except the opposite type of lp

Edited by bluebucket - 08/19/2013 at 1:44am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tt4me Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/19/2013 at 2:37am
I have 388D-1 0.6mm that I have mounted on my Donic Defplay.  I have tried a few different rubbers but I like 388D-1 0.6mm as a good compromise for at the table and chopping play.   I am still trying to figure out what would be a good FH rubber.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chopchopslam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/19/2013 at 10:12am
Saying you are looking for the spinniest long pips is kinda like saying, "I want the worst possible version of long pips."

If you want both disturbing behavior and spin ability, you'll have to get a thick sponge, like how Joo plays with a 1.3 or 1.4 mm. You could put Feint Long 2 or Grass Dtecs on that and I think it would do what you want.

Otherwise, I think Cloud and Fog on 1.0mm would be a good option. You won't have as much control over the spin, but it does return balls in a disturbing, floaty manner.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nikk64 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/19/2013 at 1:50pm
 chopchopslam-    "Saying you are looking for the spinniest long pips is kinda like saying, "I want the worst possible version of long pips."Thumbs UpThumbs UpClap  
      TGDtecs -1.6,
is anything but not spinniest 
rubber. The ability of LP to pay incoming rotation is different from the ability to generate their own rotation. The definition of "spinniest" and LP are two mutually exclusive concepts.
  P.S. My suggestion: MP/medium pips/, soft- elastic pips and a dense sponge -40-43 degrees- Armstrong attack 8M/1,2mm , Armstrong attack  EX-X/1,2mm -version the pips are smaller/thinner.


Edited by nikk64 - 08/19/2013 at 4:01pm
Butterfly Boll Tricarbon off , FH- Armstrong Attack 8 PZC-SP EX-X- 4.0 , RPB-Butterfly Tenergy 80-FX- max
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kolevtt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/19/2013 at 7:01pm

Yes, I need the worst long pips! You are right! 

About the thick sponge - I ordered yet Grass Flex 1.3 and also Grass Off 1.0 just today. Probably I will try and Crop Circless. All others I have tested yet.


Thank you all for the help!


Originally posted by chopchopslam chopchopslam wrote:

Saying you are looking for the spinniest long pips is kinda like saying, "I want the worst possible version of long pips."


If you want both disturbing behavior and spin ability, you'll have to get a thick sponge, like how Joo plays with a 1.3 or 1.4 mm. You could put Feint Long 2 or Grass Dtecs on that and I think it would do what you want.

Otherwise, I think Cloud and Fog on 1.0mm would be a good option. You won't have as much control over the spin, but it does return balls in a disturbing, floaty manner.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kolevtt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/20/2013 at 1:31pm
I received and tested today Tibhar Grass Flex 1.3 and Tibhar Grass OFF 1.0 - I think Grass Flex is more like pips out, but it is not standard pips-out rtubber, because it has great disturbing effect and it is not so spinny! Very easy to control in blocking and drive strokes, but little hard to use it in heavy chopping. It will be interesting to play with these pips in competition after time :)

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LUCKYLOOP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/20/2013 at 1:58pm
Originally posted by kolevtt kolevtt wrote:

Yes, I need the worst long pips! You are right! 

About the thick sponge - I ordered yet Grass Flex 1.3 and also Grass Off 1.0 just today. Probably I will try and Crop Circless. All others I have tested yet.

Thank you all for the help!

  

CropCircles are on sale now for $14.99. 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kolevtt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/22/2013 at 7:23pm
Update: I tested today these two pips with more experienced players and I found I am not enough able to make any troubles for them. The Grass Flex 1.3mm is much more faster than the speed I need and also Grass Off 1.0 mm is very good to control in heavy chopping, but for a pity my opponents take a loop after loop without any problem. Yes - chopping is extremely easy to do with Grass Off, but the spin of this rubber is not what I need. Using grass off I felt like I am playing children's game, but I am not sure that the winning strategy will be connected with just a waiting my opponents to retire after a thousand of loops in one game...
I tried these pips on my two bengtssons, three alsers, matsushita and johansson in combination with t05. The problem in the end of my test was that I am more dangerous with my T05 (looping) than chopping or blocking with these two pips out. Up to this moment Giant Dragon Meteorite is the most dangerous long pips for me. Up to the second successful chop in the partner's half of the table - the ball is going in the net after his attempt. It makes extremely good spin, it has also great "bad effect" in receiving the opponent side spin serving. It will be great if is possible this rubber to have a little more spin than disturbing effect. Probably it will be the best and most wanted from the current world class combined players.
Grass Flex is more pips-out than long or medium pips. Probably it will be good for pen style in the hand of some pen pips-out master. I heard Liu Guoliang (a.k.a Master Yoda) played with 1.3 pips out during all his career.
I am going to test another long pips right now.
Please share your experience with me. I am open for all advices.
Crop Circles comes in Ox and 1.2mm, I don't need Ox am not sure 1.2mm is the most appropriate for my idea after testing Gras Flex 1.3mm. I am limited just by myself do not buy once again long pips more than 1.0mm.
Both rubbers Grass Off and Grass Flex I tested just for a 30 minutes and put in topic for sale for 40 euro incl.shipment for Europe.

Thanks a lot in advance for your advices!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nathanso Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/22/2013 at 7:58pm
Crop Circles 1.2mm's sponge is a lightweight dampening sponge.. very different than the sponge behind Meteorite.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tt4me Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/22/2013 at 8:19pm
Originally posted by kolevtt kolevtt wrote:


I am going to test another long pips right now.
Please share your experience with me. I am open for all advices.
I am not sure what you are looking for now as you were looking for the most spinny long pips which probably means the long pips with the most friction.

If you want friction and a good chopping rubber then get 802 1.5mm or Reflectoid or Submarine. They don't cost much.   Other people have chopped with these.

Quote
Crop Circles comes in Ox and 1.2mm, I don't need Ox am not sure 1.2mm is the most appropriate for my idea after testing Gras Flex 1.3mm.
I have both Cropcircles 0X and Cropcircles 1.2mm.  I currently have the CC 0X mounted on one of my Firewall Plus paddles.  I think of it more as an at the table blocking and attacking LP but it chops well enough in a pinch.  I have GD Talon 0X on the other Firewall Plus.  It is a pure push blocker type of LP aimed more at spin reversal that Crop Circles.  Talon 0X can chop but it can't change the spin as much and it is harder to hit with Talon 0X.

I what I am really comparing is Crop Circles with Air UpUpUpUp UQ 0X.  Both are pretty good for hitting and blocking at the table.   They are the best chopping rubbers but both are easy enough to chop with close to the table.

I haven't tried my Cropcircles 1.2mm.   I was saving that for my Defplay that now has 388D-1 0.6mm on it.   I like the 388D-1  0.6mm more than I though I would.  Like all things there are tradeoffs.   I don't get the spin reversal of Talon 0X but I can hit and chop with it.

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 am limited just by myself do not buy once again long pips more than 1.0mm.
I tried 755 1mm a few times but didn't like it.  755 1mm didn't seem to be predictable. It could be that I didn't give 755 1mm a fair test because I mounted it on my Samsonov Alpha which is relatively fast and not a defensive blade.

I am not familiar with all the blades you mentioned.  If you are chopping you should get a slower blade.  I am pretty sure the mistake I have made is mounting chopping rubber on blades that are too fast.   I am going to wait until one of my defensive blades need long pips before I mount Crop Circles 1.2mm on it.

Crop Circles and 388D-1 are relatively cheap.




Edited by tt4me - 08/22/2013 at 8:19pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote crackfst Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/22/2013 at 8:20pm
why would you want spinny long pips? doesnt that defeat the purpose of using LP?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AgentHEX Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/22/2013 at 9:05pm
From my relatively recent experience w/ LP chopping, there are generally two ways LP's go about their business. One tends toward strong reversal, which is most suitable for old folks blocking people down at the table, and the other is some grip, which is better for creating spin on chops a la Joo.

Among the cheapo chinese LPs, personally I found for reversal 755 ~= 351 > 388d-1, and the opposite for spin. 755 does seem bit faster though, which might not be good to start as you'll struggle to find the touch to keep it on the table. For more grip, there's stuff like Feint 3, or TSP P4, but they might be harder to use since more like grippy rubber, or really glassy stuff you can just approximate by leaving the rubber in high heat for a while.

What I'm also told by much better player is that just like inverted, the exact characteristics generally matter less than your strokes, so it's not wise to worry too much about specific LP unless your stroke is very limited to simple chop-block or something.

Overall, if you get a thin-ish sponge 531 or 388d-1, they cover enough range to give an idea of what you want and focus on getting consistent shots to build on rather than cheap-tricking your opponent and ultimately limiting your own skills.


Edited by AgentHEX - 08/22/2013 at 9:07pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Knuckle Ball Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/22/2013 at 11:26pm
Spin reversal and disturbance seem to be inversely proportional to the long pips ability to generate spin. The spinnier an LP is, the less disturbing it is for your opponent.
 
Double Fish 1615 in Ox is the right blend of reversal, disturbance and control, works fine for me; needless to say, its not spinny at all - but that's what LPs are all about. Just sharing my thoughts
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AgentHEX Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/23/2013 at 12:01am
The problem with trying to strictly classify these chinese cheapies is that they don't always come out the same. Specifically there are at least two brands of 1615, and they sometimes come in soft/hard versions, often unmarked, and they've changed formulation at least once in the past. The 1615 I have looks like the 388d-1 in structure.

The 388d-1, CF3, maybe the 729 lp's are I think the most popular ones in china right now, though the latter maybe for historical reasons. "Expanding" the sheets (prolly exceed ittf tourney specs) for maximum weirdness is popular. They're mostly used OX on back of PH for surprise.


Edited by AgentHEX - 08/23/2013 at 12:03am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tt4me Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/23/2013 at 12:02am
Originally posted by crackfst crackfst wrote:

why would you want spinny long pips? doesnt that defeat the purpose of using LP?

Recently  I aged a sheet of 755 0X.   It was a close to playing with a mirror that one could get.  The spin reversal was very high but at the same time I couldn't generate any spin so I could hit or chop.  I was not able to do much with a dead ball.

Sometimes it is good to put a little spin on the to 'stabilize it' during flight.   No spin balls have a tendency to wobble or drop suddenly but often they just wobble, float or drop long.  Putting a little spin on the ball makes it more predictable for both you and the opponent but it is up to you to chose spin or no spin.   With a frictionless LP there is no choice.

At first I wanted maximum spin reversal ( frictionless ) but after I got better I wanted a little more friction so I could hit the no spin balls and these balls rarely come back.  I like hitting fake top spins.

A lot depends on what you want to do with the LPs and that may change.   I changed so want I wanted out of a LP changed.

I don't see the point in spinny LPs.  The OP should just buy something other than LPs.


 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote alphapong Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/23/2013 at 12:31am
Originally posted by chopchopslam chopchopslam wrote:

Saying you are looking for the spinniest long pips is kinda like saying, "I want the worst possible version of long pips."

I don't agree with this at all.

Grippy spinny pips are good for chop and attack.

Out of the long pips I have tried the grippiest were:  Globe 979, Galaxy 955, Friendship 837, and Feint Long 3.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kolevtt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/23/2013 at 3:56am
Originally posted by alphapong alphapong wrote:

Originally posted by chopchopslam chopchopslam wrote:

Saying you are looking for the spinniest long pips is kinda like saying, "I want the worst possible version of long pips."

I don't agree with this at all.

Grippy spinny pips are good for chop and attack.

Out of the long pips I have tried the grippiest were:  Globe 979, Galaxy 955, Friendship 837, and Feint Long 3.




I would like to assure you that 2400-2500 USATT players can't make their second loop on heavy chopped ball with GD Meteorite. And GD Meteorite for sure is long pips rubber with great spin. I decided do not make stupid notes, but chopchopslam's opinion is really far of my question. Thanks to alphapong for the answer to him.
I just asked for similiar rubber as GD Meteorite with little more spin in the pips, but with the same disturbing effect or near to it. My new strategy is connected with heavy bh chopping or blocking (if the situation allows it, but not with short pips, because I can't chop very well with short pips with sponge and also the disturbing effect of the short pips is not so high. I will rely on counter loops after the strong chop.
955, Feint Long 3, 837 and 979 are good pips but not on the GD Meteorite's level in the spin. Specially 979 I think is not even on the level of 955 or Feint Long 3 in chopping but it is with much more better disturbing effect.
Thank you very much!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kolevtt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/23/2013 at 4:03am
And only to add: Tibhar Grass only stops the ball, nothing more. And this rubber has no spin and the most funny thing is that I produced much more under spin with my Anti spin rubber Yasaka Anti Power max sponge!!!
Also I need to be offered only with NEW long pips with serial number stamped by the new regulations. What about Upupupup made by AIR ?
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