|
|
What one should look for in "a Coach"? |
Post Reply | Page 12> |
Author | ||
skip3119
Premier Member Joined: 02/24/2006 Location: somewhere Status: Offline Points: 8257 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Posted: 08/29/2013 at 11:21am |
|
If one wants to get a TT "Coach" for oneself or for one's offspring, what one should look for in that "Coach"?
(It probably has been discussed long time ago. With so many new members joined since then, it just may be worthwhile to re-visit this subject.)
Thank you very much for your thoughts.
================================
Update (after seeing a few replies): Your thoughts could include but not limited to the following.
The prospective "coach's" skill level, sportsmanship, character, etc.
Edited by skip3119 - 08/29/2013 at 11:46am |
||
skip3119
|
||
Sponsored Links | ||
pingpongpaddy
Gold Member Joined: 06/27/2006 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 1286 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Knowledge
Experience ability to teach affordable committment |
||
inactive dotec carbokev
yin he galaxy 1 p ly FH moristo sp AX MAX bh moristo sp ax max |
||
BizLawProf
Super Member Joined: 07/06/2012 Location: U.S. Status: Offline Points: 277 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Yes, it's worthwhile to revisit especially in light of the flaming going on over a purported coach's attitude in another recently-closed topic here.
I've hired a coach to work with some of my boys when we make it to the big city in our state. The reason I go with him is because he's patient, was very good (albeit not world class) as a player back in his prime, still has solid fundamentals and can hand most serious players' heads to them in a match even though he may be 2 or 3X their age, and doesn't beat his students down to prove his own superiority. He's a good role model as a sportsman. I want my boys to develop as human beings as well as players. Edited by BizLawProf - 08/29/2013 at 11:36am |
||
skip3119
Premier Member Joined: 02/24/2006 Location: somewhere Status: Offline Points: 8257 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Do "knowledge & experience" imply "skill level", in that, the coach must have certain "minimum skill level"?
|
||
skip3119
|
||
pingpongpaddy
Gold Member Joined: 06/27/2006 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 1286 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
What do you think? |
||
inactive dotec carbokev
yin he galaxy 1 p ly FH moristo sp AX MAX bh moristo sp ax max |
||
jt99sf
Premier Member Joined: 04/29/2005 Location: San Francisco Status: Offline Points: 4949 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Help their students to think on their own, outside the box. So they can come back even though down 0-2 in a match.
|
||
Photino/Super Viscaria : H3 (FH)/Dr N pips(BH)
林德成 HardBat:Hock 3-Ply /Dr Evil |
||
mhnh007
Platinum Member Joined: 11/17/2009 Status: Offline Points: 2800 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Available (date and time that is convenient for me), and affordable (a few hour lesson is not going to help, so I need to be able to afford long term), after a few lessons, if I don't feel the Coach is right for me, then I move on, but any Coach I work with is good for me so far. Not every one has the luxury of playing in LA, where there are many Coaches, and rich enough to afford to hire any Coach you want, so you can not be too picky. Note: The most important part to improve is to apply yourself, instead of expecting too much from the Coach. I was told that for every hour of lesson, I need about 6 hours of practice (what I learn), and 3 hours of playing game (apply what I practice). The only problem is I normally don't have 10hrs/week to do so .
Edited by mhnh007 - 08/29/2013 at 12:10pm |
||
jt99sf
Premier Member Joined: 04/29/2005 Location: San Francisco Status: Offline Points: 4949 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
You should take videos of your training sessions so you can go over them at a later date. I always encourage my students to do that. |
||
Photino/Super Viscaria : H3 (FH)/Dr N pips(BH)
林德成 HardBat:Hock 3-Ply /Dr Evil |
||
mhnh007
Platinum Member Joined: 11/17/2009 Status: Offline Points: 2800 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Edited by mhnh007 - 08/29/2013 at 12:23pm |
||
ybok
Super Member Joined: 10/06/2004 Status: Offline Points: 108 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
A good coach should not bend to your will, should be a little scary, should watch you closely, should be action oriented and not talk a lot, should be unnervingly honest about you, should give short clear direction, should love teaching fundamentals. Pick an older coach if all other things are equal.
Most of this is from 'The Little Book of Talent' by Daniel Coyle.
|
||
BMonkey
Gold Member Joined: 11/28/2008 Status: Offline Points: 1015 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
First, you should figure out what kind of student you or your offspring are.
Are you in it for the long haul (meaning wanting to be a frequent student over a long period of time)? Are you in good health? Will you skip training for every little "important" event that comes along? Do you take direction well? Do you have realistic goals defined for yourself that your coach can bring you to? Do you know your current level? (honestly) Being honest with yourself about who you are, can make it easier to pick a coach. For example, Bojan Tokic came to the US for a training camp this summer in Atlanta. We had a 50 year old female 1100 player who only plays casually, travel halfway across the country to this and get coaching from him and I couldn't help but roll my eyes a bit. Talk about overkill. Total waste of her money and his time in my opinion. The bigger your goals, the bigger the qualifications needed for your coach, but also, the bigger the commitment needed from you the student.
|
||
skip3119
Premier Member Joined: 02/24/2006 Location: somewhere Status: Offline Points: 8257 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Do the prospective coach's "sportsmanship" & "character" count for anything beside the minimum skill level? Or, they are non-factors.
|
||
skip3119
|
||
in2spin
Silver Member Joined: 12/09/2008 Status: Offline Points: 988 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
a slightly different perspective:
do the students (if they are children) - truly want to play tt? do they have a desire to want to improve and learn? one of my big pet peeves is former or current tt parents who automatically assume their kids want to play tt also, the kids are subsequently dumped off on a teacher/coach - who is willing to teach, however the kids/students are not willing to learn. the worst thing as a coach is expectation that the students want to learn tt, when in truth all you are doing is baby sitting. a student will only improve if they themselves have the desire to want to learn and improve. some kids/students thrive at the beginning in a group setting, using peer group pressure to improve (kid A hit 20 fh's in a row, i want to try to beat that...). some kinds/students want or need one-on-one coaching. it really is about individual desire and the ability to use that desire to extract successful skills. if a kid/student doesn't want to learn - it doesn't matter how good the coach is conversely - a good coach will be able to create the enthusiasm and "spark" necessary to attract that willingness to improve and learn. the actual playing ability of the coach is not as important as recognition of what level the student is at, and how to make the student improve, and gain ability to understand, grasp concepts and improve :)
|
||
N.Cali PLayer
Member Joined: 08/08/2013 Location: Sacramento Status: Offline Points: 51 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
The most important thing in my mind is to ask people their experiences with the coaching from the coach you might be interested in hiring.
Its a business and you should treat it as such, meaning get referrals. In this case, referrals would be asking students, or parents of students what they feel are coaches strengths and weaknesses. In my area there are 3 different coaches, and various people have used them, so I can ask around in a constructive way what are there thoughts on the differences. This is a polite way of asking When you looking for help with a jr, the best situation is group instruction, its cheaper and more fun for the child. |
||
mhnh007
Platinum Member Joined: 11/17/2009 Status: Offline Points: 2800 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
|
||
mhnh007
Platinum Member Joined: 11/17/2009 Status: Offline Points: 2800 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
|
||
mhnh007
Platinum Member Joined: 11/17/2009 Status: Offline Points: 2800 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
|
||
Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14336 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Where do you live?
|
||
frogger
Premier Member Joined: 08/03/2010 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3062 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
I have coached high school kids and young club players. The problem is them not wanting to learn, the problem is they have an attention span of a rock, easily getting distracted by external things like girls, talking, boys, basketball in the next court, IPhones, electronic messages, can I go to the bathroom?, I'm tired, he is cheating, do I have to play with a girl?
The biggest attribute a coach can have coaching kids is PATIENTS! Mid Level and advanced players need experienced certified coaches but there are exceptions.
|
||
Wood Paddle
Red side Black side. |
||
stiltt
Assistant Admin Joined: 07/15/2007 Location: Location Status: Offline Points: 1011 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Find the right balance between talking and playing:
Too many coaches have a hard time to explain complex ideas about strokes and are not prepared well enough to express in a minimum amount of words what they want from their coachees so the coachee may be frustrated to stand and listen with 'respect' to long explanations that eats up too much time out of the hour of training. Those who do not talk at all don't bring the best of themselves either and the coachee keeps doing the same thing for too long without progressing as fast as (s)he could. It's all in the balance baby! |
||
Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14336 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
In some parts of the country, the biggest challenge in finding a coach is simply finding a coach -- any coach! When I was a kid growing up, after we moved back to the US, there was precious little coaching to be had where I was living. Probably still true there. Hopefully you have choices, but you may not. If you have lots of choices, maybe you could watch them coach a bit. Depends on your level, kids ages, goals, etc. No one size fits all. Maybe the best coach for your kids is not the best coach for you and vice versa. There is a person here who is an absolute genius with small kids and it's not like she's bad with adults, but with kids she is amazing. And there is a guy here who is great with under-2000 middle aged players. He really helps people get better but he pretty much refuses to coach kids.
Edited by Baal - 08/29/2013 at 6:17pm |
||
AgentHEX
Gold Member Joined: 12/14/2004 Location: Yo Mama Status: Offline Points: 1641 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
A coach like a teacher in general can only guide, not learn for the student, and teachers who aren't cognizant of this are responsible for many failures in serious teaching. They often look for "disciples" or even their protege, which can lead to worse results than you would think for the effort put in.
When the relationship is slight like in large classrooms, both the responsibility and failures are more in the students' hands, yet the product here is often just as good as private tutor. Worth thinking about for a min. |
||
AgentHEX
Gold Member Joined: 12/14/2004 Location: Yo Mama Status: Offline Points: 1641 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
More specifically, at low level it really is like baby sitting. You're looking more for and motivating basic enthusiasm. Once the student can get over the hump of doing some disciplined work (ie teachable) simple basic skills go a long way. Anyone who can read the manual can do this, which is why autodidactic types can get pretty far. The most important thing here which some experience can help is avoid bad habits. Only at higher level is some advanced understanding of the subject really necessary.
However, the way basic economics works, when the market is saturated people naturally go for better players to teach them at similar rates even when it's pretty unnecessary. More specific to TT, some play ability does matter in drilling/practice partner more than coach. Edited by AgentHEX - 08/29/2013 at 7:22pm |
||
stiltt
Assistant Admin Joined: 07/15/2007 Location: Location Status: Offline Points: 1011 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
I have introduced many people to the game as a coach and each time I was never forgetting to underline that whatever I was saying was not arguable, accepted as dogma by all coaches; that I liked to talk about the game and was just giving food for thoughts; that it was his or her responsibility to do some research and assemble all info gathered from me, other players and the web (youtube, forums...) to build his or her own game.
That way I never had any problem that comes with the master-disciple relationship; it was more like 2 new tt buddies meeting each other and enjoying time together doing what they both like a lot. They ALL came back after the introductory hour; my record is 1.5 hour/week at his home for almost 2 years. Since it works so well I keep doing it that way even though I am not motivated to coach anymore. |
||
jt99sf
Premier Member Joined: 04/29/2005 Location: San Francisco Status: Offline Points: 4949 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
So do you take PayPal ? |
||
Photino/Super Viscaria : H3 (FH)/Dr N pips(BH)
林德成 HardBat:Hock 3-Ply /Dr Evil |
||
smackman
Assistant Moderator Joined: 07/20/2009 Location: New Zealand Status: Offline Points: 3264 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
a coach must be min 2650 level and have a youtube vid of himself
well that's what most posters ask
|
||
Ulmo Duality,Donic BlueGrip C2 red max ,Yinhe Super Kim Ox Black
NZ table tennis selector, third in the World (plate Doubles)I'm Listed on the ITTF website |
||
SeeReed
Super Member Joined: 09/20/2011 Status: Offline Points: 210 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Armed with above guidelines go to your local TT tournaments. Look how the coach interact with their student(s). If you have chance, go talk to the parents, player or club member about their coach. In most cases, you will have chance talk to the coach too. If you interest in some coach and want to find out their rates. Go talk to the coach or club manager. |
||
BizLawProf
Super Member Joined: 07/06/2012 Location: U.S. Status: Offline Points: 277 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Of course they're huge factors, especially if it's a child who's being coached. If I throw my kids into the hands of some frustrated, embittered ex-playing pro who never quite got to the level he/she wanted and now has a general contempt for the world, why would I not expect that attitude to affect my kids? Anyone want this guy coaching your kids? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4kr24G8jQpM |
||
frogger
Premier Member Joined: 08/03/2010 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3062 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
LOL, in Nebraska? That one made my day!
|
||
Wood Paddle
Red side Black side. |
||
Leshxa
Gold Member Joined: 01/03/2009 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1917 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
In my mind good coach will:
1. Have knowledge of the game and the sport - must know what it takes to "build a player" 2. Understand technique and its history - including new trends and must have ideas where the next trends might be 3. Have patience 4. Be a mentor and educator - need to teach other things besides technique 5. Be a good motivator committed to driving player's development. If the player stagnates because he does not trust the coach or believe in what the coach teaches, the relationship will not work, so its best for both player and coach to part. 6. Be capable of thinking outside the box. Each player will need individualized attention with different strengths, and different methods necessary to let the player develop technical, mental, and physical skills. 7. Know how to teach material and coach in a match without negative pressure, negative emotions, but with positive objective instructions 8. Will be committed to the player during the lessons as well as outside the lesson, phone, email, etc. Players need support and input outside of the court and sometimes they are very important. 9. Will know how to keep player's interest in the game, making lessons interesting, insightful, and fun. |
||
Back to table tennis...
|
||
Post Reply | Page 12> |
Tweet
|
Forum Jump | Forum Permissions You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum |
Forum Home | Go to the Forums | Forum Help | Disclaimer
MyTableTennis.NET is the trading name of Alex Table Tennis Ltd. |