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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote emihet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/11/2013 at 6:27pm
the list is great: 
the fastest bubbles came from: Tuttle beijing 2, Haifu whale 2 black sponge, Gambler outlaw, then other chinese rubbers
German: Xiom Vega Europe bubled quickly 
the others took longer to bubble or tear/damage to sponge or topseet...can't give you a list since i must have tuned over 50 different rubbers
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mertus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/11/2013 at 7:41pm
That's a lot of rubber you have tuned!LOL

Have you tried boosting the latest haifu whale 2 red sponge? By the way, how many layers do you apply for the first initial boost? Mine is 2 layer on bare sponge and then one layer after 2 months for falco long boost and one layer as well after a month for seamoon.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote t64t64t64 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/12/2013 at 1:25am
i know people who destroy tenergys for around 2 weeks,using dandoy bio booster (2400-2500US)

so 3 months is a lot for someone,


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mertus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/12/2013 at 1:48am
Originally posted by t64t64t64 t64t64t64 wrote:

i know people who destroy tenergys for around 2 weeks,using dandoy bio booster (2400-2500US)

so 3 months is a lot for someone,


 
I reckon they must have over tuned their tenergy. tenergy has an elastic topsheet which can help neutralize/ease the tension caused by the booster. As oposed to lots of chinese rubber (like DHS H3)which has a tougher topsheet that keeps on resisting to the expansion of the sponge which in return creates a lot of tension to the rubber.
 
I reckon 1 to 2 thin layer is enough for tenergy after the factory tension is almost gone. Have done this to 2 used tenergy sheet of a friend and have not heard any problem from him yet after some months.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote emihet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/12/2013 at 3:13am
Originally posted by t64t64t64 t64t64t64 wrote:

i know people who destroy tenergys for around 2 weeks,using dandoy bio booster (2400-2500US)

so 3 months is a lot for someone,


yes...tuned tenergy is only good for about 4 weeks for me but you can use longer if you don't mind some dead spots and loss of spin
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote emihet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/12/2013 at 3:14am
Originally posted by mertus mertus wrote:

That's a lot of rubber you have tuned!LOL

Have you tried boosting the latest haifu whale 2 red sponge? By the way, how many layers do you apply for the first initial boost? Mine is 2 layer on bare sponge and then one layer after 2 months for falco long boost and one layer as well after a month for seamoon.
i tried  a lot of different layer combinations...
now i do about 2-3 initial ones and then one more after 3-4 weeks or so and this rubber gets moved to a back up blade
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mertus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/12/2013 at 3:51am
Originally posted by emihet emihet wrote:

Originally posted by mertus mertus wrote:

That's a lot of rubber you have tuned!LOL

Have you tried boosting the latest haifu whale 2 red sponge? By the way, how many layers do you apply for the first initial boost? Mine is 2 layer on bare sponge and then one layer after 2 months for falco long boost and one layer as well after a month for seamoon.
i tried  a lot of different layer combinations...
now i do about 2-3 initial ones and then one more after 3-4 weeks or so and this rubber gets moved to a back up blade
 
I reckon your method is ok either on chinese or euro/jap rubber.
Probably next time for the initial I will try 1 layer of falco long on the bare sponge and then apply 1 layer of glue and finally another layer on top of the glue. Also I will ready another back-up sheet whenever the other has almost lost its tension and then use these 2 rubbers one after the other sparingly. The point is that the rubbers got a sufficient time to rest (atleast a month) and shrink to their almost original form. Will see if these method will extend the life of the rubber.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cole_ely Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/12/2013 at 9:02am
Back in the real glue days I loved to glue.  Loved the process, loved the feel of the rubbers.  It add spin, speed AND control at the same time.
 
Beginning with that terrible bananna-smelling 3day tibhar tuner, I quickly learned that other tuners added speed but no spin and they were terrible on control.
 
I don't use anything and haven't in years, but if I was going to, parifin oil is the best choice.  I still have some old tuner too.  Sometimes people used to pay me to tune their rubbers but I haven't been asked in years.
 
Yes, there is a double standard with factories being allowed to tune rubber.  Remember the rule is that players can't do anything to chance the factory play of a rubber.  This doesn't mean factories can't do it.  Also, factories (I think) tune the sponge before attaching to the topsheet.  If you tune it after, you're stretching the topsheet which is illegal.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote assiduous Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/12/2013 at 10:17am
Since 'tuning' or 'boosting' means only and only stretching of the rubber, no factory really 'tunes', since they create the rubber. They have nothing to stretch. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cole_ely Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/12/2013 at 1:15pm
personally i define tuning as adding some liquid to the sponge, whether pre or post production 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote emihet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/12/2013 at 2:36pm
Originally posted by cole_ely cole_ely wrote:

Back in the real glue days I loved to glue.  Loved the process, loved the feel of the rubbers.  It add spin, speed AND control at the same time.
 
Beginning with that terrible bananna-smelling 3day tibhar tuner, I quickly learned that other tuners added speed but no spin and they were terrible on control.
 
I don't use anything and haven't in years, but if I was going to, parifin oil is the best choice.  I still have some old tuner too.  Sometimes people used to pay me to tune their rubbers but I haven't been asked in years.
 
Yes, there is a double standard with factories being allowed to tune rubber.  Remember the rule is that players can't do anything to chance the factory play of a rubber.  This doesn't mean factories can't do it.  Also, factories (I think) tune the sponge before attaching to the topsheet.  If you tune it after, you're stretching the topsheet which is illegal.
very true...the new boosters only add speed...not spin and control like the old speed glue...but the waikidi stuff adds a bit of spin and control on med to soft german sponges
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote emihet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/12/2013 at 2:37pm
Originally posted by cole_ely cole_ely wrote:

personally i define tuning as adding some liquid to the sponge, whether pre or post production 
yes...
take a brand new sheet of butterfly place it with the sponge on an old rubber and wait one day...you will see how the old sheet bubbles by sucking a liquid from the tenergy sponge
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote emihet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/12/2013 at 2:37pm
Originally posted by emihet emihet wrote:

Originally posted by cole_ely cole_ely wrote:

personally i define tuning as adding some liquid to the sponge, whether pre or post production 
yes...
take a brand new sheet of butterfly place it with the sponge on an old rubber and wait one day...you will see how the old sheet bubbles by sucking a liquid from the tenergy sponge
true of bluefire and many other sponges as well
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tt4me Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/12/2013 at 3:08pm
Originally posted by assiduous assiduous wrote:

Since 'tuning' or 'boosting' means only and only stretching of the rubber, no factory really 'tunes', since they create the rubber. They have nothing to stretch. 
The sponge will stretch or swell if paraffin oil is applied.  I have put paraffin oil on a sheet of T05 to stretch it out because it had shrunk over time.  Later that day I played with the T05 and it didn't seem any different from usual.    Paraffin oil dissipates rapidly.   I don't see why one would want a liquid in their sponge.  Liquids add weight and most don't compress much.  Unless the liquid quickly turns into a gas or evaporates it would be detrimental to play.

I do agree that the term boosting by the factory makes no sense.   If the rubber is pre-boosted then what happens when it shrinks or the boosting material evaporates?   The top sheet isn't going to expand.  If the sponge were expanding or contracting relative to the top sheet we would see the rubber curl or dome.  When I take a rubber out of the wrapper it is usually pretty flat.  There may be only a slight curve to it.  The real test would be to buy a rubber and take it out of the wrapper and let it sit just to see if its shape changes.  
 
I don't like the word tuning.  One tunes each note of a piano or stringed instrument to a precise frequency.  In control tuning means adjusting gains to control something to a set point.
"Tuning" is table tennis seems like a hit or miss affair.  Boosting is a much better term.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LUCKYLOOP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/12/2013 at 4:14pm
A rubber does not have to arc up to play faster. Oil can rejuvenate old rubber without arc-ing it up. Sometimes the rubber will soften too much from oil making it play like a pillow. The cure is to let it dry out which may take up to a week in some instances. The rubber will then play normal again.
 
Lack of moisture or drying out over time ages the rubber. The manufacturer adds a moisture preservative to make sure this doesn't happen too soon.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Roger Stillabower Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/12/2013 at 4:21pm
I have bought ESN type rubber that when I remove it from the package it curls up and wont lay flat. I take that the rubber has been on the shelf and unsold for a long period of time and the oils in the sponge has dried up. No one else experience this ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote emihet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/12/2013 at 4:23pm
yes...but not just esn...happens to japanese rubbers as well...neos, almana, boost...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Roger Stillabower Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/12/2013 at 4:27pm
Put a light layer of Baby oil on the sponge and it will lay flat again, this tells me something.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pdotec Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/12/2013 at 5:06pm
Originally posted by emihet emihet wrote:

falco lasts longest...for german/japanese rubbers i like waikidi's tuner


what is waikidi tuner??
Are you referring to the old asti booster OR
something new???
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mertus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/20/2013 at 3:32pm
Originally posted by Roger Stillabower Roger Stillabower wrote:

Put a light layer of Baby oil on the sponge and it will lay flat again, this tells me something.
Yeah I know what you mean. Manufacturers definitely boost their rubbers and ITTF is ok with it but not the players. Yeah right...Confused
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote assiduous Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/20/2013 at 4:15pm
Originally posted by tt4me tt4me wrote:

Originally posted by assiduous assiduous wrote:

Since 'tuning' or 'boosting' means only and only stretching of the rubber, no factory really 'tunes', since they create the rubber. They have nothing to stretch. 
The sponge will stretch or swell if paraffin oil is applied.  I have put paraffin oil on a sheet of T05 to stretch it out because it had shrunk over time.  Later that day I played with the T05 and it didn't seem any different from usual.    Paraffin oil dissipates rapidly.   I don't see why one would want a liquid in their sponge.  Liquids add weight and most don't compress much.  Unless the liquid quickly turns into a gas or evaporates it would be detrimental to play.

I do agree that the term boosting by the factory makes no sense.   If the rubber is pre-boosted then what happens when it shrinks or the boosting material evaporates?   The top sheet isn't going to expand.  If the sponge were expanding or contracting relative to the top sheet we would see the rubber curl or dome.  When I take a rubber out of the wrapper it is usually pretty flat.  There may be only a slight curve to it.  The real test would be to buy a rubber and take it out of the wrapper and let it sit just to see if its shape changes.  
 
I don't like the word tuning.  One tunes each note of a piano or stringed instrument to a precise frequency.  In control tuning means adjusting gains to control something to a set point.
"Tuning" is table tennis seems like a hit or miss affair.  Boosting is a much better term.

I have been making the same arguments as above ^^. Even rubbers that tend are known to shrink, like tenergy or bluefire, really don't show the physical properties of something boosted by any commercial booster. It is immediately obvious that commercial rubber arrives in very STABLE state of physical properties. You can open it and lay it out on the table and nothing will happen to it. I don't know why but shrinking occurs once the rubber has been installed and removed.

Does anybody here believe that the factories first create the rubber, and THEN add liquid to 'boost' it? There is no way. They just create quality that cannot be reproduced by dipping your sponge into horse urine. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote assiduous Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/20/2013 at 4:19pm
a few more notes:

 Paraffin oil is ridiculously volatile -- dont bother with it. Your rubber will play worse by the time you get to use it. 

Baby Oil is almost completely inert and nonreactive - don't bother with that either. The only change that is easy to observe after application is the extra weight.

Even if you start with a beat up rubber, no matter what 'booster' you apply, after the stretch effect expires you will be left with a WORSE rubber than the beat-up rubber you started with. Rubber that is stretched and held on to the paddle merely by the glue plays like crap. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote slevin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/20/2013 at 4:31pm
Originally posted by assiduous assiduous wrote:

 When I take a rubber out of the wrapper it is usually pretty flat.  There may be only a slight curve to it.  The real test would be to buy a rubber and take it out of the wrapper and let it sit just to see if its shape changes.  

OK, I don't know the answer to this and haven't tested but:

A possibility could be that the new sheet has everything in it for boosting to take place except the water (or any other substance in the WBG (or RC)) for some reaction to occur.

I read in one post (that I can't locate) that to avoid shrinking of his Tenergies (on his blade), the poster first puts WBG on his new sheet and lets it lie for a few days. Perhaps, this shrinks his sheet before he puts it on his blade?

Regarding factory tuning: anyone who's used Bluefire and has Dandoy Bioboost at home can confirm that the stuff in the blue sponge smells exactly the same and they don't smell like anything else. There must be something to this.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fatt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/20/2013 at 4:42pm
Originally posted by assiduous assiduous wrote:

...
Even rubbers that tend are known to shrink, like tenergy or bluefire, really don't show the physical properties of something boosted by any commercial booster.
...
among the rubbers that shrink after being removed from the blade, what causes the strong smell of the sponge when unwrapping them from their factory package?

Originally posted by tt4me tt4me wrote:

...
If the rubber is pre-boosted then what happens when it shrinks or the boosting material evaporates?   The top sheet isn't going to expand.  If the sponge were expanding or contracting relative to the top sheet we would see the rubber curl or dome.  When I take a rubber out of the wrapper it is usually pretty flat.  There may be only a slight curve to it.  The real test would be to buy a rubber and take it out of the wrapper and let it sit just to see if its shape changes.
...
is it possible that the sponge is boosted before being glued to the tensed topsheet? then no dome would occur when shrinking happens since both sponge and topsheet would shrink together.

Originally posted by assiduous assiduous wrote:

...
It is immediately obvious that commercial rubber arrives in very STABLE state of physical properties. You can open it and lay it out on the table and nothing will happen to it.
...
the shrinking does not happen overnight; for example, PO boosting will let a rubber expanded for days before shrinking back to original size occurs --> I experienced this last week: after a test boosting of a 729 Origin, the rubber gained 1.5mm all around (3ml PO) and I left it out unprotected in the basement for more than a week; now it's still slightly bigger than the blade it was cut for. We can safely bet factories are more subtle in their boosting process so their rubbers will show the same shrinking much later than what we experience with basic and brutal PO boosting.
How long did you wait before arriving at the conclusion no shrinking occurs if upon its opening from its factory packaging the rubber is left airing out?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote igorponger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/20/2013 at 4:48pm
   TUNED = TRASHY.

"Factory tuned" is some pain in the arse.
The Oily applications, as some chinese manufacturers would now use, will cause rubber sheet overweighed as much as by 10 -15g, quite unplayable to my own taste.

So, the "tuned" marking on a rubber envelope would always leasten like "trashy" to me.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mertus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/20/2013 at 5:36pm
Originally posted by slevin slevin wrote:

Originally posted by assiduous assiduous wrote:

 When I take a rubber out of the wrapper it is usually pretty flat.  There may be only a slight curve to it.  The real test would be to buy a rubber and take it out of the wrapper and let it sit just to see if its shape changes.  

OK, I don't know the answer to this and haven't tested but:

A possibility could be that the new sheet has everything in it for boosting to take place except the water (or any other substance in the WBG (or RC)) for some reaction to occur.

I read in one post (that I can't locate) that to avoid shrinking of his Tenergies (on his blade), the poster first puts WBG on his new sheet and lets it lie for a few days. Perhaps, this shrinks his sheet before he puts it on his blade?

Regarding factory tuning: anyone who's used Bluefire and has Dandoy Bioboost at home can confirm that the stuff in the blue sponge smells exactly the same and they don't smell like anything else. There must be something to this.
 
Same here, I noticed that "phenomenon" as well. Brand new factory tensioned ESN rubbers seem to be flat out from the package until glued with water based glue to the blade. But when you peel the rubber from the blade I noticed that it has domed considerably. This doming effect is definitely the same when compared to factory boosted Chinese rubbers which are vacum packed.
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote m123456 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/17/2017 at 11:43pm
vegetable oil, olive oil, castor oil, almodnd oil are all pointless. they take soooooo long to sink into sponge. They also don't even ahave a strong effect or even a lasting effect on the performance. best it does it soften up, but other than that gives no speed glue. you need something that is more volatile but not too volatile. something too volatile would be naptha or paint thinner, n-heptane, or most rubber solvents, those will kill ur sponge and rubber. baby oil just gives off the doem, nothing much, use flaoc or haifu, or dian chi. other stuff is futile
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