Need advice from high level players on stance

There's a bad habit of mine that I started to notice during my games and that is that I have the tendency to loop more than I loop drive.  What I found out is that I am probably not spreading my legs enough.  I always thought I did, but now I'm starting to doubt myself.  I need advice from those power loopers out there, how far do you need to spread your legs in order to get shots to be a little more consistent in terms of power and do you stay like that for most shots including short games.

When I do spread my leg even more (imagine how Oh Sang Eun spreads his legs during a game) during a training session, I feel like I can move better and best part is that I can now make faster shots rather than spinny loops.  I also feel like my upper body is a lot lower than usual with even more space between my legs. 

My other problem is that when I game, my body cannot seem to remember the stance or how wide apart my legs should be, so I get extremely frustrated when that happens because I can't play my game.  I also feel like I'm having trouble transitioning to my lower stance from the service position. 

I actually want to play a more forehand oriented game, but with more aggressive shots and good recovery.  I can move, but.....my shots lack that consistency of power. 

I do play a lot of choppers by the way.  I do learn a lot from them, but I always feel like that kinda carries over to the next opponent who is not a chopper.  Do you guys have any tip on how to step away from it once you are done playing against a chopper?


Edited by O! Ju Qian - 09/18/2013 at 5:11am

i'm not a high level player but you the way you spread your legs its supposed to be wider than your shoulders. also, having a wide stance lowers your center of gravity enabling you to have better balance and stability which equals to better movement. and yes timing is the key to stronger shots, taking the ball early off the bounce is faster compared to taking it on the peak or late. also, how is your weight transfer or shifting when doing a forehand? how does your body pivot together with your shoulders and waist? also if you want to hit harder build a lil bit more muscles and develop muscle endurance for your strokes.

I'm not high level, but here is my two cents:

You are penholder and FH oriented player. You also experience that spreading stance can extend the comfort zone by swapping body between two legs. It means you don't have to move much, in comparison to high stance.

When you've finished the serve, quickly spread your legs in FH stance and cover the left table (if you are right hand player). U are CP player, so you only need one step moving to the right and back to the left, that's all. Then you can play FH oriented game easily.

After playing with a chopper, then ask someone play counter loop with you for a while, then you can get away that feeling.

I'm also not a high level player.

I think your approach is totally wrong. Sounds like you think having the body low will solve your problem.

Similar to what Yogi_bear stated.
If you want more consistency in terms of power, then you must not just hit with your arm or your stance, but hit with the whole body.

The moment your body is moving as a whole, one foot to another. Weight transfer from one side to another, swing from one side of your body to another, then your problem will be solved.

In terms of consistency, then maybe you should train with multiball and go for 100 ~ 150 ball drills to just 2 or 3 placements. Get your body to be able to handle work load, then in match situation 10 balls in a row with high consistency of power is easy.

Whats your level of play?

yogi_bear wrote: also, how is your swing? is it a snapping swing or a long straight arm swing ? it also affects your power

Edited by jt99sf - 09/18/2013 at 12:28pm

It is recommended that you are in lower stance when receiving. Also, whenever you have a few microseconds to spare, check if your legs are too straight and if necessary bend them a little. Maintain softness and spring in your legs/knees/hips.

Also remember - when your stance is low, you have to make sure you are not "dropping your butt". That is you need to maintain a slight forward body angle. Otherwise, if your legs are spread and your body is leaning backward, you are screwed - it is next to impossible to quickly move from that position. You need to work on that so that you adjust your body immediately if you find yourself anywhere near that posture.

ZApenholder wrote: I'm also not a high level player. I think your approach is totally wrong. Sounds like you think having the body low will solve your problem. Similar to what Yogi_bear stated. If you want more consistency in terms of power, then you must not just hit with your arm or your stance, but hit with the whole body. The moment your body is moving as a whole, one foot to another. Weight transfer from one side to another, swing from one side of your body to another, then your problem will be solved. In terms of consistency, then maybe you should train with multiball and go for 100 ~ 150 ball drills to just 2 or 3 placements. Get your body to be able to handle work load, then in match situation 10 balls in a row with high consistency of power is easy. Whats your level of play?

I'm about 1700.  I normally don't have trouble playing against tougher players, but if you catch me on a day/night where my shots are not working, then I can loose mainly because my shots don't pose any threat.  There will be times when my shots are fast, then it sort of disappears on a random day and for a long time. 

I used to do this kind of drills with a mentor of mine for hours at his club where I focused more on adding power on forehands from backhand corner to the middle, but he moved away years ago and he closed down the club.  yea, kinda sucks. 

Now, going back to the lower stance, I guess I'm a little conflicted now.  All I can say is that I can move my whole body when my stance is lower.  I do not feel like I'm only using my arm only if that's what you are asking, but I rely a lot on weight transfer from one leg to another and waist movement.  When I try doing that on different stance, which is more of relaxed stance with knees bent kinda like when you are just hitting forehand and backhands for warm up only, I simply feel less balanced during the game.  Maybe I bring my legs too close w/o realizing it.  I can also tell you that I'm not "squatting" just to get low.

JimT wrote: It is recommended that you are in lower stance when receiving. Also, whenever you have a few microseconds to spare, check if your legs are too straight and if necessary bend them a little. Maintain softness and spring in your legs/knees/hips. Also remember - when your stance is low, you have to make sure you are not "dropping your butt". That is you need to maintain a slight forward body angle. Otherwise, if your legs are spread and your body is leaning backward, you are screwed - it is next to impossible to quickly move from that position. You need to work on that so that you adjust your body immediately if you find yourself anywhere near that posture.

I'm not dropping my rear, but I feel some stretch around my thigh area.  After a little while, they do become rather loose.  My upper body leaning forward with knees bent.  Not squatting.

O! Ju Qian wrote: jt99sf wrote: O! Ju Qian wrote: I'm about 1700.  I normally don't have trouble playing against tougher players, but if you catch me on a day/night where my shots are not working, then I can loose mainly because my shots don't pose any threat.  There will be times when my shots are fast, then it sort of disappears on a random day and for a long time.  I used to do this kind of drills with a mentor of mine for hours at his club where I focused more on adding power on forehands from backhand corner to the middle, but he moved away years ago and he closed down the club.  yea, kinda sucks.  Now, going back to the lower stance, I guess I'm a little conflicted now.  All I can say is that I can move my whole body when my stance is lower.  I do not feel like I'm only using my arm only if that's what you are asking, but I rely a lot on weight transfer from one leg to another and waist movement.  When I try doing that on different stance, which is more of relaxed stance with knees bent kinda like when you are just hitting forehand and backhands for warm up only, I simply feel less balanced during the game.  Maybe I bring my legs too close w/o realizing it.  I can also tell you that I'm not "squatting" just to get low. I think you need to work on your footwork, take bigger steps getting to the ball.   Since you're in CA, get some coaching and video the session for future reference. See the problem, I can move around the table and cover good distance, but my loops/stroke are just not synchronized with the footwork.  You can move, but you are not hitting it right or visa versa.

Again.  Multiball drills.  Only way to fix this.

ZApenholder wrote: O! Ju Qian, Are you moving like this? If not then that is the problem I was refering to. Feet 1st Knee 2nd Waist 3rd Arm/swing 4th Wrist 5th https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=165282920301605&set=vb.443481379036123&type=3&video_source=pages_video_set  - up to 1 min, you can ignore the rest https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=205954799567750&set=vb.443481379036123&type=3&video_source=pages_video_set This 17 year old lady is still not perfect. Her footwork is really lazy, and I have been trying to jump start it. But if you are not young like her then you don't need to move as quickly. Very important for your FH looping, is to put more pressure on your right foot (if you are right handed). Also by using a half step - steping towards the ball and put pressure on the knee will help your swing. I don't think I have a clear video on this to show you.

You know how she consistently keeps the v shape stance, that is what I mean by spreading the legs enough to feel the center of gravity.  Thanks to your video I think I know what I'm doing wrong.  I have the tendency of bringing the legs together sometimes and this is probably the "lazy" footwork I have.  

What I need to do is try to keep those legs spread out most of the time to be balanced or at least immediately come back to it.  It isn't about having a "low stance," but more about having a consistent stance for every stroke.  Also, the coach was commenting on the girl's movement/footwork something about being "under your toes" on your shots.  What did he mean by that?  I really appreciate the video and the help Zapendholder.

I also like your explanation about using the half step and knees.


Edited by O! Ju Qian - 09/18/2013 at 7:46pm

O! Ju Qian wrote: What I need to do is try to keep those legs spread out most of the time to be balanced or at least immediately come back to it.  It isn't about having a "low stance," but more about having a consistent stance for every stroke.  Also, the coach was commenting on the girl's movement/footwork something about being "under your toes" on your shots.  What did he mean by that?  I really appreciate the video and the help Zapendholder. I also like your explanation about using the half step and knees.

Stand ready by the front half of your feet and not the heel. This way your motion will be forward.

AgentHEX wrote: Take advice from the highest level of players: Your shots lack consistency of power because you lack consistency of timing in both footwork and stroke, no matter your own self-assessment. This isn't rocket science once you learn the stroke: focus on the ball, see where it's going, shuffle there, same position/stroke every time. Biggest reason I see for failure in this is people get lazy and just hope for the same shot to come back while standing still. O! Ju Qian wrote: There's a bad habit of mine that I started to notice during my games and that is that I have the tendency to loop more than I loop drive.  What I found out is that I am probably not spreading my legs enough.  I always thought I did, but now I'm starting to doubt myself.  I need advice from those power loopers out there, how far do you need to spread your legs in order to get shots to be a little more consistent in terms of power and do you stay like that for most shots including short games. When I do spread my leg even more (imagine how Oh Sang Eun spreads his legs during a game) during a training session, I feel like I can move better and best part is that I can now make faster shots rather than spinny loops.  I also feel like my upper body is a lot lower than usual with even more space between my legs.  My other problem is that when I game, my body cannot seem to remember the stance or how wide apart my legs should be, so I get extremely frustrated when that happens because I can't play my game.  I also feel like I'm having trouble transitioning to my lower stance from the service position.  I actually want to play a more forehand oriented game, but with more aggressive shots and good recovery.  I can move, but.....my shots lack that consistency of power.  I do play a lot of choppers by the way.  I do learn a lot from them, but I always feel like that kinda carries over to the next opponent who is not a chopper.  Do you guys have any tip on how to step away from it once you are done playing against a chopper?

Yea, I've seen those videos in the past.  They really help.

Yea, I will focus more on improving and fixing my footwork.  Thanks guys.

On the broader issue raised by this thread:

To help illustrate just how important footwork is to "power", hit some hard-ish shots against a robot that puts the ball to same place. Now move just 6-8in in either direction from the natural stroke position and try the same thing. Now move 12in+ away and do the same. Now look at how wide the table is and the all space the opponent has to place the ball.

The next thing to try is bit harder to grasp: slow down the time between shots adequately and give yourself an indeterminant awkward pause before or after the shots. See how much your timing can be off by before seriously effecting power.

Everyone has a "sweet spot" in both space and time where the shot is most effective. With a lot of training high level player can increase the size of that spot slightly, but by far the largest diff between pros and amateurs is their ability to get to that spot and placing the ball so their opponent can't. On this second point, recall this spot is in both time or space. A more powerful shot pushes the former, and well-positioned one the latter.


Edited by AgentHEX - 09/18/2013 at 9:13pm