Lily Yip TTC Team Event Oct 2013

Hey, thanks NextLevel: I was bummed I couldn't go to watch. BTW: if you drove all the way to see this, you should have arrived the previous night: the club has a good Friday league that goes from 8pm till about midnight. You'll play more players of your level than you could in a tournament for a fraction of the price ($13 including pizza for a non-member). I did see some of these players strolling around on Friday and I'm pretty sure I mistook Ariel for just another underrated kid training there 

Ariel really had to work hard to finally win a point on his serve... 18-16 !!?

I added the names of the players and uploaded the 3rd Set of Adam vs. the chopper.

jrscatman wrote: NextLevel wrote: I added the names of the players and uploaded the 3rd Set of Adam vs. the chopper. Thanks for uploading the videos. I am not able to see the third set yet - only see the first two. So I take it Adam H. lost in 3. I thought he played this guy in Toronto - last week.

It's my most recent upload.  So if you look at all my videos, it is the very last.

Thanks NextLevel - found the video. Did anyone beat the chopper?

jrscatman wrote: NextLevel wrote: I added the names of the players and uploaded the 3rd Set of Adam vs. the chopper. Thanks for uploading the videos. I am not able to see the third set yet - only see the first two. So I take it Adam H. lost in 3. I thought he played this guy in Toronto - last week.

What were the Toronto results?

bogeyhunter wrote: NextLevel wrote: Ariel Hsing vs. Provincial Player 1st set http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNYF-cuOLjo Not sure which was more amazing 1. 1st point - ball didn't even hit the net first!!!! 2. Ariel downed 0-5 but won the set. 3. 8-minutes long set. Deuce at 4 minute mark. 4. Number of points Ariel just return to the net? And still won. Chopper vs Adam - likely a SP chopper.

Love the smile on Ariel's face after the 3rd point. lol

benfb wrote: JimT wrote: Ariel really had to work hard to finally win a point on his serve... 18-16 !!? I just rewatched the video of Ariel while I was stuck on hold on the phone. I was really struck by how much trouble she had returning his serves.  There's no reason for someone of her level to have that much trouble.  I would bet that he was hiding his serves with his body, given that's he's left-handed.

The serve was short, and she need to reach-in to return, it looks like she was afraid he would pushed long to her body on her reach-in, so she was rushed getting back into play.  She was under pressure, and make careless mistake.

mhnh007 wrote: benfb wrote: JimT wrote: Ariel really had to work hard to finally win a point on his serve... 18-16 !!? I just rewatched the video of Ariel while I was stuck on hold on the phone. I was really struck by how much trouble she had returning his serves.  There's no reason for someone of her level to have that much trouble.  I would bet that he was hiding his serves with his body, given that's he's left-handed. The serve was short, and she need to reach-in to return, it looks like she was afraid he would pushed long to her body on her reach-in, so she was rushed getting back into play.  She was under pressure, and make careless mistake.

I don't buy it.  Anyone at her level spends a lot of time learning how to get in and out real quick.  She could be careless, but those kinds of mistakes would only happen once a game, not repeatedly.  And this match should be no more pressure than playing the Worlds, or the US Championship, etc.  I think she was misreading the serves and my guess, given how easy it is for people to shield their serves when playing righty versus lefty, is that he was shielding his serves.

BMonkey wrote: At that level, shielding slightly shouldn't matter. It's not like he was serving from under his arm. She was doing the same service action as he was too.

Even at world elite level, hidden serves can be very difficult to return. Just look at any world or Olympic championship from the 1990s.  So if the serves are hidden, Ariel would still have a hard time.

Body shielding isn't like holding the arm in the way. It's a timing matter: do they toss the ball backwards and hit it behind the body or not? I'm left-handed and I've seen a great many righties whose serve would be visible to another righty (because they stand at opposite corners) but which are completely hidden to me (because I stand down the line from them).  Unfortunately, you can't really tell from the sidelines (hence, the reluctance of umpires to call it) or from any angle except where the receiver is standing. 

If the video had been two 1600 players, or maybe a 2000 versus 1800, I would have assumed that it was a lack of skill on their part.  And I know that a 2800 player can make a 2500 player mis-read a serve, even without hiding it -- I've seen Fan Yiyong do it many times.  However, in  this match we have two players or comparable skill levels and those skills are very, very good.  So my deduction is body shielding, but, of course, I have no way of really know that without asking Ariel.

BMonkey wrote: benfb wrote: If the video had been two 1600 players, or maybe a 2000 versus 1800, I would have assumed that it was a lack of skill on their part.  And I know that a 2800 player can make a 2500 player mis-read a serve, even without hiding it -- I've seen Fan Yiyong do it many times.  However, in  this match we have two players or comparable skill levels and those skills are very, very good.  So my deduction is body shielding, but, of course, I have no way of really know that without asking Ariel. Well there's the answer. You thought they were of the same skill level.

Edited by NextLevel - 10/25/2013 at 5:21pm

benfb wrote: NextLevel wrote: Exactly, the Chinese player is closer to 2700 while Ariel is closer to 2500. A 150 point difference isn't what I meant.  I meant like 2950 versus 2500. One thing is that it would help to see beyond game 1, to see if she continued to have problems returning his serves.  If she adjusts in game 2, then he probably just has good serves.  If you get to the end of the match and she's still mysteriously missing a lot, then it's more likely shielded serves.

You can always see game 2,3,4 on Nextlevel's youtube channel



Edited by ZApenholder - 10/25/2013 at 5:29pm

BMonkey wrote: benfb wrote: NextLevel wrote: Exactly, the Chinese player is closer to 2700 while Ariel is closer to 2500. A 150 point difference isn't what I meant.  I meant like 2950 versus 2500. One thing is that it would help to see beyond game 1, to see if she continued to have problems returning his serves.  If she adjusts in game 2, then he probably just has good serves.  If you get to the end of the match and she's still mysteriously missing a lot, then it's more likely shielded serves. 2700 is a huge jump above 2500. It's not the same as a 1300 and a 1500. 200 points difference that far above mean is really significant.

Yeah, 2700vs2500 is like 1800vs1300, not 1500vs1300

benfb wrote: NextLevel wrote: Exactly, the Chinese player is closer to 2700 while Ariel is closer to 2500. A 150 point difference isn't what I meant.  I meant like 2950 versus 2500. One thing is that it would help to see beyond game 1, to see if she continued to have problems returning his serves.  If she adjusts in game 2, then he probably just has good serves.  If you get to the end of the match and she's still mysteriously missing a lot, then it's more likely shielded serves.

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