Boosting or cheating - a valley of dry bones

This topic relates directly to the thread "the best rubber to use booster on". Feel free to read that thread to see where this piece fits into it. Or not.

the_theologian wrote: Tassie, Is it cheating if the OP just wants to play to have fun with friends and never enter competition? Have you assumed the OP wants to covertly gain advantage in sanctioned competition?

let us consider some options:
1. OP just wants to have fun with friends
2. OP wants to practise with boosted rubber and is happy to tell his practice partners that is what he is doing
3. OP wants to practise with boosted rubber but would rather not share that information
4. OP wants to compete using boosted rubber

1. Is it cheating if OP is just mucking about? This depends upon some other factors, but probably No. If OP's practice partners are happy to be playing against juiced up rubber, fine. But what if the practice partner really struggles to handle their opponent's additional speed/spin/control? At what point does the OP start to think, "Wow, this boosted rubber really gives me an advantage. I wonder what would happen if I played a serious match with this stuff?" Now there is the temptation to find out. I'm sure that as a theologian you understand why Jesus says to Peter, "Get behind me, Satan!"

2. Practising openly using boosted rubber. Why? Perhaps the OP believes that this will improve their basic technique and that when they play unboosted there will be a carry-over effect. It's not cheating in this scenario, however it obviously is going to lead to a problem: When the OP discovers that there is no improvement, are they then not tempted as in scenario 1?

3. Practising covertly. Yes, this is cheating. Why? After all, it's not a sanctioned competition. The reason lies in the nature of secrecy. Keeping something secret implies seeking to gain an advantage - probably not in the immediate situation, but later in competition. Otherwise, why not disclose that the OP is using boosted rubber? The cheating is in the future intentions of the OP.

4. Competing using boosted. Clearly breaking the rules of the game and therefore unarguably cheating.

I'm sure there are other scenarios beyond these four, and I'd be interested to consider them.

Now we need to assess the likelihood of these scenarios. I think we can easily dismiss 3 and 4 - practising with boosted to improve playing with unboosted is dumb. Nobody is going to do that.

Just playing and having fun with friends? This is the one that gets constantly thrown up in these discussions. Is it at all likely? No way. The people who post in this and other forums are serious about their table tennis. Even when we muck about, we're constantly evaluating what will work in competition. And we don't want to fool around with something if there is any risk it will negatively impact upon our playing level.

Another factor to take into consideration is the time and money involved in a boosted setup. I know we're all a little obsessed and throw way too much money into our hobby, but we tend to do it in search of the holy grail setup. Not for mucking about with friends. As I understand it, boosting takes hours not minutes. It's also risky - no-one wants to ruin their $80 sheet of Tenergy. It's a long term thing - buying and trying a range of rubber takes serious commitment to a lengthy process. I know I'm not prepared to waste all of this time and energy without any prospect of winning more games than I currently do, and I have serious doubts that anyone else does either.

Even so, I would be prepared to entertain the possibility of boosting just for fun if it weren't for the far, far greater likelihood that people boost for competition.

Three reasons:
1. We know that some (many? most?) professionals boost. We've seen the videos, we've heard the talk. And if professionals do it, then we have to do it too. Rationally we know that wearing shoes like Mike isn't going to make us play like Mike, but playing sport is hardly a rational exercise. Without any logic whatsoever, we emulate our heroes, even if it means breaking the rules. (Nice guys finish last, right?). If the professionals are breaking the rules of the game, that simply points to the inadequacy of policing the rules; it doesn't change the morality or otherwise of boosting. But, if it's good enough for the pros ...

2. We live in cultures that encourage rule-breaking. Some quick and easy examples: in some places, driving above the speed limit is the norm not the exception; minimising paying tax is seen as sensible rather than seen as robbing the public purse; if someone makes a mistake which is to our advantage, we are unlikely to draw it to their notice. It's a very short step to extend that mentality just a little further. If we can benefit from "bending the rules" (code for cheating) then we are willing to take some chances. Lance Armstrong, anyone?

3. Finally add into this mix words we hear again and again: "this rule is a joke". Which is weird if we stop long enough to ask, "Who appointed us as judges of the rightness or wrongness of society's rules." Somehow, Western society has twisted democracy into meaning that every individual knows what is best. If we think that a rule somehow stops us from getting what we want, then we're only too happy to break it. (See the speeding driver example above.)

For better or worse, sport is neither democratic nor anarchic. We can't pick and choose which rules we're prepared to follow. Nor can we gather together all of the table tennis players in the area and have a vote. Like it or not, the rule is the rule, and boosting is breaking that rule.

As I said before, feel free to break the rule, but be honest enough to admit that you're cheating.

So, in my mind, the only serious possibility out of the four scenarios is that the people discussing boosting in this thread are talking about how best to cheat. Feel free to convince me otherwise, but until then I'll continue to interpret "playing for fun" as boosting in order to win.


Edited by Tassie52 - 12/31/2013 at 10:57pm

Is there a rule that prevent people from using deteriorated rubbers? Because technically the rubbers start to deteriorate as soon as it is made…  

Edited by JohnnyChop - 01/01/2014 at 1:06am

Stuff I don't like:

Lots of noise and visual distractions when I'm playing matches.  Sometimes unavoidable, and it's really my problem, but it makes me really grumpy.
People serving out of their hands (because that is a really old rule at this point).
Absurd cho-ing (but I am well known to berate myself using foul words in multiple languages while playing, so who am I to complain). 
More than anything, ITTF constantly changing rules which goes hand in hand with corruption within ITTF and which is hurting the sport, not helping it (in part by driving up costs dramatically).
Current American rating systems in which people are tanking matches to win money in rating events (where is there any prize money for rating events?).
Days when I suck at ping pong and can't seem to do anything right.

Stuff I really can't get upset about:

If my opponent is boosting or for that matter using speed glue, as long as they use it before coming to the club so as to not stink up the place.


Maybe it's because I am not a professional player and my livelihood does not depend on it. 
Mostly though, I doubt that it makes any real practical difference if I am using Tenergy (which I can afford and which actually plays worse if you mess with it) and some other guy is using boosted H3  (or if another guy is boosting a previously factory-boosted rubber to extend it's life because he works two jobs to make a living or has a bunch of kids in school).  In fact, it's a matter of complete indifference to me what my opponent does to his blade or rubber.  It's not like a corked bat in baseball. 

I know some people feel differently and that is fine --- but I don't see boosting as evidence for the moral degradation of society or anything like that--especially given the process whereby a lot of these rules came into existence.   I am almost coming to the position that if people want to do this to tell ITTF where to shove their rules, well cool, aux barricades, mes amis!!!    Ultimately it's just ping pong and I play for fun.  I am not definitely going to call someone a cheater.  If we are going to go biblical on this one, there is "judge not, lest ye be judged". 

Tassie has all the facts on his side.  His arguments cannot be refuted.  I cannot deny it.  But I just can't get in a lather one way or another.  Maybe it is because it tacitly acknowledges that ITTF has a legitimacy that I think they are well on the way to losing??????

Finally Tassie has to come up with a long "anti-cheating" post of his own here at Mytt.net.   
He was by far the staunchest Adham supporter at the OOAK forum, no matter how many clear instances of conflict of interest were found on Adham's administration.  He just brushed them aside as if they never happened and continued with his blind support of all crazy ITTF rule changes.  He finally gave up arguing for Adham and left that chatroom for good.  I don't buy a word from this guy, because everyone already knows since Kindergarten that you are supposed to blindly follow all rules.  Thanks Tassie but I have already learned it in Kindergarten!  The main question here is the "no boosting" rule's true intent:  Why are pros still free to use boosted rubbers and manufacturers still allowed to supply them "under the table", but we can't? 

roundrobin wrote: Finally Tassie has to come up with a long "anti-cheating" post of his ... blah, blah, blah, blah, blah ... "

You don't like me. If you want to drag up the past then feel free.

I did have a sensible reply prepared but now RoundRobin has revealed my evil ways I suppose I'd better bugger off.

JohnnyChop wrote: Is there a rule that prevent people from using deteriorated rubbers? .............. i do boost my rubbers but only to extend its life(when the build in speed glue effect wears off too much or i am loosing grip) because i cannot afford a new sheet every month. Although this is technically breaking the rules,  A lot of people will complain that boosting old inverted rubber is wrong and unfair and wants you to play with the deteriorated rubber. But those same people will also complain about players who plays with deteriorated long pips and wants them to use sheets in new conditions.  ...................................................... Also if we follow "2.4.7 The racket covering shall be used without any physical, chemical or other treatment" strictly, does that mean that the moment i use sweat to clean the surface of the rubber it is no longer legal due to chemical treatment? or if i pressed a little too hard while glueing and stretched the sheet, is that physical treatment hence rendering the sheet illegal?  ................................

I never boosted and probably never will. But I gotta say, Tassie, get off your high horse. It's uncalled for. I don't like your post. Had to put it out there. 

First of all, let me say that I do not break the ITTF rules in competitions, otherwise I would be using illegal frictionless long pips but instead I am using legal frictionless anti which is much more difficult to play. I also do not use boosted rubbers in competitions but I do use boosted rubbers in practice to extend the lifetime of the expensive T05 I like to play. After 3 month of play the sponge of the T05 looses its dynamic while the topsheet is still plenty spinny so I apply a couple of layers of booster and use the rubber for another 4-6 weeks. I cannot afford to always buy a new T05 because I have a son in college (bloodsuckers!...but that would be another discussion). On the other hand I do not really care what other people do with their rubbers/bats that I face in competition. I actually believe that a lot of the dudes who boost their rubbers would play better without. Though it is always easy to spot the boosters when the boys are warming up with loop-loop drills and you can hear a sound...well, no rubbers out of the package have it.

Edited by Matt Pimple - 01/01/2014 at 3:11pm

I think boosting and it being illegal is money driven. Nothing more.

Edited by suds79 - 01/01/2014 at 6:37pm

A few notes about things in various posts:

I have another take on the moral compass argument.  I think the ITTF's justifications for these rule changes changes do not pass the smell test and never did, so if people want to be subversive about it, it is fine with me.  For the same reason, the tournaments we run at our club are never sanctioned by USATT.  It is not just that we don't get anything in return, it is partly that we have some issues with the entire organization and their decision making/governance processes. 

I can't get over Adham Sharara's pious preaching about "a clean sport" and "health effects" when talking about boosters -- stuff made from baby oil!  I do not believe what he says.  He has been lying about celluloid, I don't believe his explanations for any of the controversies that follow him like a shadow, and I would like to have my sport returned to the control of the people who play it.  One way to do this is simply to take control.

I know, without rules there is chaos, and all that.  I guess at this point I just don't care.  And I would also say, if there is chaos without rules, then be very careful about the rules you make.


Short version of this post:  kind of what fatt says.

 

APW46 wrote: I guess it's just the wild west out there. Five main groups; (1) Players who have never used speed glue/boosters/tuners either when they were legal or after the ban. (2) Players who used speed glue/boosters/tuners when they were legal and still do. (3) Players who came into the game after the ban, but use tuners/boosters. (4) Players who came into the game after the ban and don't use tuners/boosters. (5) players who used speed glue/tuners/boosters before the ban but don't now because they don't want to break the rules. Just my observation, but there is one factor that is prevalent across all 5, and not immediately apparent, the individual style of play. Loopers and drivers are far more likely to turn a blind eye because tuning things up is beneficial to their game. Blockers, choppers, flat hitters etc, are more likely to be against any form of equipment boosting because it is detrimental to their game. That leaves a small minority that have ethics, mainly from group (5)

I'll add:

Baal wrote: It's not like a corked bat in baseball.

fatt wrote: You said "2 wrongs don't make a right" but you should say instead "3 wrongs don't make a right" as in addition of the pros and the people you unfairly call "cheaters", the manufacturers also tune their rubbers and that in exchange for a fee part of which goes back to the rule makers; in the end if all parties are "cheaters" then none is. If that is not obvious to you then you are blind, naive or hypocrite; maybe all of the above; but again you are free to be an authority sucker upper even though you make yourself a morally condemnable corrupt defending morally corrupt practices. Your stance above is basically justifying racketeering; question: during alcohol prohibition, would you say the owner of a speakeasy was morally so wrong if a local corrupt government was protecting a given criminal organization free to produce and distribute alcohol in exchange for a kickback?

I suspect that even in our unsanctioned tournaments not a lot of people boost, in large measure because most players in our area are already using rubbers that would not benefit a lot by boosting anyway.  If our tournaments were sanctioned we still wouldn't be able to test for it.  We don't have the machines.  (I sure would be curious to know about financial relationships if any between companies that make these machines and ITTF people).

The worst thing about these rules is that they (1) have not improved the sport and (2) have added a completely unnecessary source of discord among the community of players, as evidenced by the existence of this thread.  Qui bene?  None of us.