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JacekGM View Drop Down
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    Posted: 04/21/2014 at 2:55pm
I wonder about wrist bands...

I have been using one on my left hand wrist (I am a righty). I like the all-cotton type, and I have been using white color.

(1) Is this 100% legal (what about if the ball is also white?)
(2) Any your thoughts you have about wrist bands use in TT?

The reason I like them is that my forehead sweats quite a bit, this stuff is getting in my eyes, burns, and waiting for the next 6 points to use the towel is pain in the... eyesCry.
(1) Juic SBA (Fl, 85 g) with Bluefire JP3 (red max) on FH and 0.6 mm DR N Desperado on BH; (2) Yinhe T7 (Fl, 87 g) with Bluefire M3 (red 2.0) on FH and 0.6 mm 755 on BH.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jrscatman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/21/2014 at 3:01pm
Wouldn't headbands or bandana help with the forehead sweat?
With regards to legality - might be best to stick to colors other than white, yellow or orange.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JacekGM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/21/2014 at 3:37pm
Originally posted by jrscatman jrscatman wrote:

Wouldn't headbands or bandana help with the forehead sweat?
With regards to legality - might be best to stick to colors other than white, yellow or orange.  
Okay, but the other colors are much less available, and I wear the band on my non-playing wrist. 
Is it really not allowed?
(1) Juic SBA (Fl, 85 g) with Bluefire JP3 (red max) on FH and 0.6 mm DR N Desperado on BH; (2) Yinhe T7 (Fl, 87 g) with Bluefire M3 (red 2.0) on FH and 0.6 mm 755 on BH.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jrscatman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/21/2014 at 3:50pm
Originally posted by JacekGM JacekGM wrote:

Originally posted by jrscatman jrscatman wrote:

Wouldn't headbands or bandana help with the forehead sweat?
With regards to legality - might be best to stick to colors other than white, yellow or orange.  
Okay, but the other colors are much less available, and I wear the band on my non-playing wrist. 
Is it really not allowed?
I think it's legal, however, if someone complains the umpire or referee can rule otherwise. If they decide against you, you'll have to change or remove it. So there is a slight risk. I know a tournament player who questions things just to throw his opponent off. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Snakefish Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/21/2014 at 5:15pm
Originally posted by jrscatman jrscatman wrote:

Originally posted by JacekGM JacekGM wrote:

Originally posted by jrscatman jrscatman wrote:

Wouldn't headbands or bandana help with the forehead sweat?
With regards to legality - might be best to stick to colors other than white, yellow or orange.  
Okay, but the other colors are much less available, and I wear the band on my non-playing wrist. 
Is it really not allowed?
I think it's legal, however, if someone complains the umpire or referee can rule otherwise. If they decide against you, you'll have to change or remove it. So there is a slight risk. I know a tournament player who questions things just to throw his opponent off. 
 
Does that tournament player ask his opponent what colour is his underwear ?   Big smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jrscatman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/21/2014 at 6:16pm
Originally posted by Snakefish Snakefish wrote:

Originally posted by jrscatman jrscatman wrote:

Originally posted by JacekGM JacekGM wrote:

Originally posted by jrscatman jrscatman wrote:

Wouldn't headbands or bandana help with the forehead sweat?
With regards to legality - might be best to stick to colors other than white, yellow or orange.  
Okay, but the other colors are much less available, and I wear the band on my non-playing wrist. 
Is it really not allowed?
I think it's legal, however, if someone complains the umpire or referee can rule otherwise. If they decide against you, you'll have to change or remove it. So there is a slight risk. I know a tournament player who questions things just to throw his opponent off. 
 
Does that tournament player ask his opponent what colour is his underwear ?   Big smile
Don't think there are any rules covering that - only things that are in the rule book!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote piligrim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/22/2014 at 8:30am
Originally posted by JacekGM JacekGM wrote:

and I wear the band on my non-playing wrist. 


how it help agains sweat? why not on playing wrist?

about color. I am using white and orange, never had problem with this
I don't think there is rules regard this

Edited by piligrim - 04/22/2014 at 8:30am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GMan4911 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/22/2014 at 8:39am
If you're worried about the color, buy them off Ebay.  Headbands and wristbands are available in all sorts of colors cheaper than you can get locally.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hookumsnivy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/22/2014 at 2:15pm
I've had someone at the local club mention that the white wristband bothers them when we use a white ball.  Like you, I put it on my non-playing wrist.
Only 1 person mentioned it, and I took it off shortly thereafter for the rest of the match.  Nobody has ever said anything about blue ones that I normally use.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JimT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/22/2014 at 4:57pm
Originally posted by JacekGM JacekGM wrote:

Originally posted by jrscatman jrscatman wrote:

Wouldn't headbands or bandana help with the forehead sweat?
With regards to legality - might be best to stick to colors other than white, yellow or orange.  
Okay, but the other colors are much less available, and I wear the band on my non-playing wrist. 


Oh c'mon - I use bandannas and I use wristbands. Had absolutely no problems getting them in dark colors, black and blue etc. My wristbands are black-red and black with a small red/white logo, my bandannas are all black or dark blue.

Examples:

http://www.butterflyonline.com/inventoryD.asp?item_no=7408WBP&CatId={AC4D261F-924F-459E-852E-D57D250AF55F}

http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/ApparelHWbands.html

http://www.sportsauthority.com/product/index.jsp?productId=11563192&cp=23457956.33808956&parentPage=family

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Reinecke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/22/2014 at 6:29pm
Michael Maze commonly wore wristbands and headbands. Always blue or black I think. I would say it's common courtesy to wear colors not similar to that of the ball.

However if you were looking to see if it is dorky or not to wear them, you have a professional example in Maze.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TT newbie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/22/2014 at 7:48pm
I use a wristband in my playing arm. 
To avoid sweat goes from the arm to the hand and... to make some style. I always combine shirt and wristband with same color. Best ones in my opinion are Nike and Wilson tennis wristbands.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mts388 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/22/2014 at 8:00pm
There is a product called dye that can magically change the color of any clothing.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JacekGM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/22/2014 at 8:12pm
Thanks for the suggestions so far. 
Some seem to indicate that I am ignorant in the area of common courtesyOuch and also in the area of making simple online purchasesOuch (although I am grateful for the linksThumbs Up), or even dying...Ouch well... I do prefer to purchase little items like that at a local Dicks store (where white is prevalent; I saw a black one, but that was 100% synthetic), and as for dying... when is it the last time you actually used a dye on something you wear? Really?

Again, is it 100% legal or 100% illegal to wear a white wristband on the non-playing hand? Any educated answers?


Edited by JacekGM - 04/22/2014 at 8:19pm
(1) Juic SBA (Fl, 85 g) with Bluefire JP3 (red max) on FH and 0.6 mm DR N Desperado on BH; (2) Yinhe T7 (Fl, 87 g) with Bluefire M3 (red 2.0) on FH and 0.6 mm 755 on BH.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ByeByeAbout Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/22/2014 at 8:54pm
Originally posted by JacekGM JacekGM wrote:


Again, is it 100% legal or 100% illegal to wear a white wristband on the non-playing hand? Any educated answers?


it's 100% legal.  it's not a guess

regards
rick
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GMan4911 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/22/2014 at 8:57pm
Originally posted by JacekGM JacekGM wrote:

Again, is it 100% legal or 100% illegal to wear a white wristband on the non-playing hand? Any educated answers?
 
Legal.  This is the only rule in the rule book that might apply to wristbands/headbands:
 
3.02.02.05 Any markings or trimming on the front or side of a playing garment and any objects such as jewellery worn by a player shall not be so conspicuous or brightly reflecting as to unsight an opponent.
 
But then, there's this:
 
3.02.02.07
Any question of the legality or acceptability of playing clothing shall be decided by the referee.
 
So if someone complains and the referee agrees, then you're SOL.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JacekGM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/22/2014 at 9:20pm
Originally posted by GMan4911 GMan4911 wrote:

Originally posted by JacekGM JacekGM wrote:

Again, is it 100% legal or 100% illegal to wear a white wristband on the non-playing hand? Any educated answers?
 
Legal.  This is the only rule in the rule book that might apply to wristbands/headbands:
 
3.02.02.05 Any markings or trimming on the front or side of a playing garment and any objects such as jewellery worn by a player shall not be so conspicuous or brightly reflecting as to unsight an opponent.
 
But then, there's this:
 
3.02.02.07
Any question of the legality or acceptability of playing clothing shall be decided by the referee.
 
So if someone complains and the referee agrees, then you're SOL.
GMan, 
this is great, TY!
I expected something like that. Also, I recall some top players playing matches in high level tournaments with brightly reflecting wrist watches on them, and nobody seemed to object. You nicely have addressed that "brighlly reflecting as to unsight an opponent" issue in your post. Thumbs Up
Possibly, people might have some stories of their own on the "unsighting garments" topic...



Edited by JacekGM - 04/22/2014 at 9:21pm
(1) Juic SBA (Fl, 85 g) with Bluefire JP3 (red max) on FH and 0.6 mm DR N Desperado on BH; (2) Yinhe T7 (Fl, 87 g) with Bluefire M3 (red 2.0) on FH and 0.6 mm 755 on BH.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tassie52 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/22/2014 at 11:14pm
From the Umpire's Handbook:
Quote 8.4.7 If a player protests that he or she is being unsighted by brightly reflecting jewellery or other items worn by an opponent the umpire should ask for the offending items to be covered or removed. If this request is refused the matter must be reported to the referee, whether or not the umpire supports the protest. The fact that the item has been worn in previous matches is irrelevant, and each case must be decided on its merits.


So... the opponent has the right to protest, which leaves the wearer of the "other items" (in this instance, sweatband) with little option but to remove it.

Regardless, from the perspective of common courtesy, why would you wear something which has the potential to be a problem?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ByeByeAbout Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/23/2014 at 1:01am
Originally posted by Tassie52 Tassie52 wrote:

From the Umpire's Handbook:
Quote 8.4.7 If a player protests that he or she is being unsighted by brightly reflecting jewellery or other items worn by an opponent the umpire should ask for the offending items to be covered or removed. If this request is refused the matter must be reported to the referee, whether or not the umpire supports the protest. The fact that the item has been worn in previous matches is irrelevant, and each case must be decided on its merits.

from the perspective of common courtesy,


is common courtesy important to you?

Wink


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JacekGM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/23/2014 at 7:30pm
.

Edited by JacekGM - 04/23/2014 at 8:14pm
(1) Juic SBA (Fl, 85 g) with Bluefire JP3 (red max) on FH and 0.6 mm DR N Desperado on BH; (2) Yinhe T7 (Fl, 87 g) with Bluefire M3 (red 2.0) on FH and 0.6 mm 755 on BH.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JacekGM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/23/2014 at 8:14pm
Originally posted by Tassie52 Tassie52 wrote:

From the Umpire's Handbook:
Quote 8.4.7 If a player protests that he or she is being unsighted by brightly reflecting jewellery or other items worn by an opponent the umpire should ask for the offending items to be covered or removed. If this request is refused the matter must be reported to the referee, whether or not the umpire supports the protest. The fact that the item has been worn in previous matches is irrelevant, and each case must be decided on its merits.


So... the opponent has the right to protest, which leaves the wearer of the "other items" (in this instance, sweatband) with little option but to remove it.

Regardless, from the perspective of common courtesy, why would you wear something which has the potential to be a problem?

...to dry the forehead in between the 6 point breaks?
(1) Juic SBA (Fl, 85 g) with Bluefire JP3 (red max) on FH and 0.6 mm DR N Desperado on BH; (2) Yinhe T7 (Fl, 87 g) with Bluefire M3 (red 2.0) on FH and 0.6 mm 755 on BH.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goodah_Chunky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/23/2014 at 8:32pm
Jacek,

How about these:
http://www.sportsauthority.com/product/index.jsp?productId=12422298&view=grid
http://www.sportsauthority.com/product/index.jsp?productId=12422300&view=grid

You can get them in black, of course, unless black is too distracting...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JacekGM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/23/2014 at 8:36pm
Originally posted by Goodah_Chunky Goodah_Chunky wrote:

Jacek,

How about these:
http://www.sportsauthority.com/product/index.jsp?productId=12422298&view=grid
http://www.sportsauthority.com/product/index.jsp?productId=12422300&view=grid

You can get them in black, of course, unless black is too distracting...

Yep, thank you. Why not...
(1) Juic SBA (Fl, 85 g) with Bluefire JP3 (red max) on FH and 0.6 mm DR N Desperado on BH; (2) Yinhe T7 (Fl, 87 g) with Bluefire M3 (red 2.0) on FH and 0.6 mm 755 on BH.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tassie52 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/23/2014 at 8:51pm
Originally posted by JacekGM JacekGM wrote:

Originally posted by Tassie52 Tassie52 wrote:

why would you wear something which has the potential to be a problem?
...to dry the forehead in between the 6 point breaks?
Lol.  I'm not questioning whether wearing a sweatband is helpful.  I wear glasses and there's nothing more frustrating than sweat falling onto a lens midpoint.

My question is related to your original post:
Quote  I have been using white color.

(1) Is this 100% legal (what about if the ball is also white?)
Wearing a white wristband (or any other potentially distracting article like a metallic wristwatch) carries a risk that your opponent will protest and ask you to remove it.  Is it a big risk?  Probably not.  But, according to the Umpire's Handbook, wearing a white wristband puts you in a vulnerable position.

Having said that, it is the first part of my comment which you seem to have missed:
Quote from the perspective of common courtesy, why would you wear something which has the potential to be a problem?
There are clear rules about clothing, but the reality is that most of us are not playing premier league table tennis.  We're playing for fun, usually with friends and acquaintances.  Would I deliberately wear an all white shirt knowing that it may very well make it harder for my opponent to see the ball.  No.  It's just common courtesy that I would avoid doing something which potentially spoils the fun for my friend/acquaintance.  

For me, it's in the same basket as being too lazy to serve legally or so determined to win that I challenge nets and edge balls.  Why be a jerk?  



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ByeByeAbout Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/23/2014 at 10:32pm
Originally posted by Tassie52 Tassie52 wrote:

It's just common courtesy that I would avoid doing something which potentially spoils the fun for my friend/acquaintance.  


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JacekGM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/24/2014 at 8:47pm
Originally posted by Tassie52 Tassie52 wrote:

Originally posted by JacekGM JacekGM wrote:

Originally posted by Tassie52 Tassie52 wrote:

why would you wear something which has the potential to be a problem?
...to dry the forehead in between the 6 point breaks?
Lol.  I'm not questioning whether wearing a sweatband is helpful.  I wear glasses and there's nothing more frustrating than sweat falling onto a lens midpoint.

My question is related to your original post:
Quote  I have been using white color.

(1) Is this 100% legal (what about if the ball is also white?)
Wearing a white wristband (or any other potentially distracting article like a metallic wristwatch) carries a risk that your opponent will protest and ask you to remove it.  Is it a big risk?  Probably not.  But, according to the Umpire's Handbook, wearing a white wristband puts you in a vulnerable position.

Having said that, it is the first part of my comment which you seem to have missed:
Quote from the perspective of common courtesy, why would you wear something which has the potential to be a problem?
There are clear rules about clothing, but the reality is that most of us are not playing premier league table tennis.  We're playing for fun, usually with friends and acquaintances.  Would I deliberately wear an all white shirt knowing that it may very well make it harder for my opponent to see the ball.  No.  It's just common courtesy that I would avoid doing something which potentially spoils the fun for my friend/acquaintance.  

For me, it's in the same basket as being too lazy to serve legally or so determined to win that I challenge nets and edge balls.  Why be a jerk?  


Here is my answer - and I assume you mean well... You see, you write (above) "from the perspective of common courtesy" and right after that you write "why be a jerk?". I will leave it for you to re-iterate this to yourself. I can share with you that from what I gather I am not perceived by colleagues at the club as a jerk (and they play against me when I wear the white wristband).
 
The reason I asked the question number (1) you just cited was because of my true, genuine, and unabated interest in the legal situation around this particular problemBig smile, and/or because I, too, sometimes play against people who are clad in bright, distracting clothes, and/or wear dazzling bright wrist watches, for example (BTW, would you call Vladi Samsonov a jerk?). It does not bother me to a degree that would make me foam, but I do not appreciate that either. 
Also, I simply wanted to know how all that is evaluated by the existing TT laws. Therefore I asked the forum, and I got some constructive, non-aggressive answers... 
I hope it's okay.
(1) Juic SBA (Fl, 85 g) with Bluefire JP3 (red max) on FH and 0.6 mm DR N Desperado on BH; (2) Yinhe T7 (Fl, 87 g) with Bluefire M3 (red 2.0) on FH and 0.6 mm 755 on BH.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tassie52 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/24/2014 at 9:49pm
Originally posted by JacekGM JacekGM wrote:

you write (above) "from the perspective of common courtesy" and right after that you write "why be a jerk?". I will leave it for you to re-iterate this to yourself. I can share with you that from what I gather I am not perceived by colleagues at the club as a jerk (and they play against me when I wear the white wristband).
JacekGM, my apologies if that came across as implying that you're a jerk.  Embarrassed  Clearly, you're not.  I meant the comment to apply to those people who are jerks, who deliberately try to gain an advantage by bending the rules.  Very few people are prepared to call someone for serving illegally, so some people take advantage of that in order to win a match that really has no significance.

You say that you "do not appreciate" playing against people who "are clad in bright, distracting clothes, and/or wear dazzling bright wrist watches".  I don't appreciate that either.

All I'm saying is that I try to put myself in my opponent's position and think to myself, "If I wear this particular item of clothing does it have the potential to distract them?"  If the answer is "Yes" then I avoid that item of clothing.  It's about the potential, and that is the issue with the rules.

The section (8.4.7) I quoted from the Umpire's Handbook begins with "If a player protests..." which leaves players having to deal with potential protests.  If the rule book said, "No white anywhere on the player's body" then this wouldn't be an issue, but instead we are left to work out for ourselves, "Will this cause a problem?"  Under the rules, the opponent has a perfect right to protest; we have to judge beforehand about the potential to cause problems.

I'm very sorry if my contributions have come across as "aggressive".  I'm just offering an opinion which no-one has to agree with.  And that's entirely okay.  Embarrassed

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JacekGM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/24/2014 at 9:53pm
Agreed.
(1) Juic SBA (Fl, 85 g) with Bluefire JP3 (red max) on FH and 0.6 mm DR N Desperado on BH; (2) Yinhe T7 (Fl, 87 g) with Bluefire M3 (red 2.0) on FH and 0.6 mm 755 on BH.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 1dennistt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/25/2014 at 3:34pm
I wear a white headband in practice at our club, using both white and orange balls, and have not encountered any complaints.  Maybe everyone is to polite to object.  I don't wear white ones in competition, using black and blue instead.  I find the white to be more absorbent than the dyed ones, so I keep quite a few on hand for competition.   

I had a referee question my light grey shirt in a competition last year...and I was only watching matches at the time.  He was concerned I was going to play in it and thought it was too light for matches (in his opinion).  I've also worn this shirt in competition many times before without any complaints.  I unfortunately had to inform him that I was already finished for the day, so I wouldn't have to change shirts. Wink He didn't find this funny at all. Dead  No sense of humor.  But he was very pleasant in the way he presented his position.
Donic Waldner World Champion 1989 ZLC (Inner), Donic BlueStorm Pro (Red) Max, ????? (Black) 1.8 mm)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JacekGM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/25/2014 at 7:11pm
Originally posted by 1dennistt 1dennistt wrote:

I wear a white headband in practice at our club, using both white and orange balls, and have not encountered any complaints.  Maybe everyone is to polite to object.  I don't wear white ones in competition, using black and blue instead.  I find the white to be more absorbent than the dyed ones, so I keep quite a few on hand for competition.   

I had a referee question my light grey shirt in a competition last year...and I was only watching matches at the time.  He was concerned I was going to play in it and thought it was too light for matches (in his opinion).  I've also worn this shirt in competition many times before without any complaints.  I unfortunately had to inform him that I was already finished for the day, so I wouldn't have to change shirts. Wink He didn't find this funny at all. Dead  No sense of humor.  But he was very pleasant in the way he presented his position.
... and this is one of the reasons I was asking about "the legal situation" around this issue - what's in writing... is in writing, and can be used to clarify it for people, one way or the other. Obviously, we don't want to be disrespectful or mean to our opponents, at the same time we need to know what is allowed by TT laws and what is not.
(1) Juic SBA (Fl, 85 g) with Bluefire JP3 (red max) on FH and 0.6 mm DR N Desperado on BH; (2) Yinhe T7 (Fl, 87 g) with Bluefire M3 (red 2.0) on FH and 0.6 mm 755 on BH.
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