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Rate the kid

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Poll Question: Estimate USATT rating
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
1 [2.50%]
1 [2.50%]
1 [2.50%]
6 [15.00%]
2 [5.00%]
29 [72.50%]
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zettalith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/03/2014 at 10:59am
The kid is good...but, come on. I would put him at 1200-1500. His push definitely helps, but in this video, he misses so many blocks. Put him up againts anyone 1400+ with a decent loop(even if not too consistent), I do not see him coming out on top. Like others are saying, in a couple years I do see him dramatically improving.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LUCKYLOOP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/03/2014 at 11:05am
Originally posted by cmetsbeltran15 cmetsbeltran15 wrote:

Originally posted by LUCKYLOOP LUCKYLOOP wrote:

Originally posted by fatt fatt wrote:

me too; an established 1700 will destroy the kid; a consistent 1600 will beat him.
I like the way he tries to place the ball short in a crazy angle to his right. He's got some serious placement skills and court awareness.


So, your saying the adult in the red shirt, who loops from both sides, was only 1600-1700 ?


So, you're saying that, if someone can take a higher opponent to the 5th game in a non-competitive club match, that they are on the same level ? 


The match was at their weekend tournament where entry fee is $10. The adult was not cutting the kid any slack because if he lost to the kid he would get razzed by the other adults. Also, they wanted to see how the kid would perform against adults in a tournament.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cmetsbeltran15 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/03/2014 at 11:09am
Originally posted by LUCKYLOOP LUCKYLOOP wrote:

Originally posted by cmetsbeltran15 cmetsbeltran15 wrote:

Originally posted by LUCKYLOOP LUCKYLOOP wrote:

[QUOTE=fatt] me too; an established 1700 will destroy the kid; a consistent 1600 will beat him.
I like the way he tries to place the ball short in a crazy angle to his right. He's got some serious placement skills and court awareness.


So, your saying the adult in the red shirt, who loops from both sides, was only 1600-1700 ?

So, you're saying that, if someone can take a higher opponent to the 5th game in a non-competitive club match, that they are on the same level ? 


The match was at their weekend tournament where entry fee is $10. The adult was not cutting the kid any slack because if he lost to the kid he would get razzed by the other adults. Also, they wanted to see how the kid would perform against adults in a tournament.

Hmm interesting. It's hard to judge someone's level when they are playing someone far above or below them, because naturally you won't be featuring your maximum capacity either way.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote in2spin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/03/2014 at 11:45am
it would be interesting/fascinating to see this kid play the indonesian kid

:)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote piligrim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/03/2014 at 4:50pm
Originally posted by cole_ely cole_ely wrote:

If this kid is 1700, I definitely need to come play a tournament wherever you guys play


+1
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LUCKYLOOP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/03/2014 at 5:24pm
A lower skill level player when playing a stronger player will be forced into a more passive game which is what is happening with the kid in this match.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/03/2014 at 6:19pm
Originally posted by piligrim piligrim wrote:

Originally posted by cole_ely cole_ely wrote:

If this kid is 1700, I definitely need to come play a tournament wherever you guys play


+1

Anytime.  I'm in Philly.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pushblocker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/03/2014 at 7:33pm
Originally posted by BH-Man BH-Man wrote:

Oliver, as much as I am out of time/practice/whatever, I LUV playing vs OX LP players and I would relish to play vs Ur OX LP game for forum glory.
hopefully we get to play one day. Are you coming to the teams?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BH-Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/03/2014 at 7:56pm
Unless my wife sells a painting for five figures and allows me 10% of it... gunna be rough haha. Lately, all I can do is hope to visit my daughter in Boston and be lucky a tourney is going on in the area.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LUCKYLOOP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/04/2014 at 11:26pm
Originally posted by in2spin in2spin wrote:

it would be interesting/fascinating to see this kid play the indonesian kid[DIV]
[/DIV][DIV]:)[/DIV]


+1
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cmetsbeltran15 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/05/2014 at 12:09am
Originally posted by piligrim piligrim wrote:

Originally posted by cole_ely cole_ely wrote:

If this kid is 1700, I definitely need to come play a tournament wherever you guys play


+1

The issue at hand here is how good/bad people are at estimating level from videos. Not about regional differences in player strength by rating. 

Hardo move to imply you could go to a different region and run the tables.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aroonkl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/05/2014 at 2:11am
Red  2000-2100+.
For the ones who said the kid was less than 1500, I would say their eyesight need a good check up. Big smile
(Red did not play 100%. Even there was the 5th game, he had skill to pull the string anytime and win. He likely played and let the kid also had fun.) 
Why I would say the kid was not below 1500. Look closely on placement of his balls. 
-When he received 2000 level serves, he nicely placed his returns short or squeeze to opponent side pocket. A lot of receives were on early rise those would cut opponent response time and could effectively do short return. I never see any 1500 do that. 
-When he got attack with straight BH loop, he blocked straight back to BH. But when his opponent step away and use FH loop fro BH corner, he blocked to wide angle. Often well composure, not jumpy/awkward whatever hit my paddle 1500 level block.
He pushed short well and opponent has some problem with them. As opponent did a weak loop, he stepped around and counterlooped. (min 2.04) Nice form by the book with two short legs. Tongue
His attacks were no power but well angle and placement. (sample: min 3.18)
1700 is fair. If he has power, 2000+ for sure. 
Smart kid. 
(BTW. He might still loose to 1500 EVIL players Evil Smile with DIRTY long pips though. LOL )




Edited by aroonkl - 06/05/2014 at 4:54am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cole_ely Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/05/2014 at 11:40am
Anyway, he'll probably be 2000 by the time I would ever run across him.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LUCKYLOOP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/05/2014 at 2:01pm
Obviously, the kid is getting some quality coaching.

Edited by LUCKYLOOP - 06/05/2014 at 2:01pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SmackDAT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/05/2014 at 6:58pm
Damn if that kid is seriously 1700, I wuldnt be surprised if I took down people at 2000...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JacekGM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/05/2014 at 11:56pm
Originally posted by LUCKYLOOP LUCKYLOOP wrote:

Obviously, the kid is getting some quality coaching.

...and why is that so obvious? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aroonkl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/06/2014 at 12:59am
Any possible a 10 years old could figure how to do those himself? Tongue
Originally posted by JacekGM JacekGM wrote:

Originally posted by LUCKYLOOP LUCKYLOOP wrote:

Obviously, the kid is getting some quality coaching.

...and why is that so obvious? 


Edited by aroonkl - 06/06/2014 at 1:00am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LUCKYLOOP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/06/2014 at 1:28pm
Originally posted by JacekGM JacekGM wrote:

Originally posted by LUCKYLOOP LUCKYLOOP wrote:

Obviously, the kid is getting some quality coaching.

...and why is that so obvious?


He finished 9th in that weekly club tournament with 17 partipants, all other players have had TT training when they were in school.

Edit Correction

17 participants not 18

Edited by LUCKYLOOP - 06/06/2014 at 9:29pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote shay2be Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/06/2014 at 3:00pm
I honestly think that these rating projections are skewed due to people's perception on USATT 2000.
The way some members express USATT 2000 makes it seem like 2000 is like 2500, like I've been 2000 without half of the things that some people think 2000 players have.
I see an easy 2000+ in the guy in the red due to his consistency alone, now I truly dont know how much better than 2000 he is, due to the fact that I truly cannot distinguish that well at a higher level.
Plus, it all depends on the context.
For example, if I play a 1200 player, I will probably look like I am a strong player while on the other hand, if I played a 2500 player, I would look like I am 1200.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/06/2014 at 11:52pm
Great points, shay2be. Too often, we forget that 2000s parrot 2500s but really play like more consistent 1800s.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote smackman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/07/2014 at 2:13am
we are looking at the highlights so didn't see bad service returns etc
 but it is good to see a young player who can return a bottom spin serve back tightly and on purpose
 he did start to attack more service returns as he realised he could at times
 still developing but a nice around game for a 10 year old
 once he developes some different serves himself he will gain some good ratings
he hasn't been taught to toss the ball up and should be called all the time so he should learn now
with futher coaching and match practice he should be a grow to be a good player
 but like others have said his current level and next probable levels will shoot up over the next few years
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LUCKYLOOP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/09/2014 at 1:47am
Originally posted by LUCKYLOOP LUCKYLOOP wrote:


He finished 9th in that weekly club tournament with 17 partipants, all other players have had TT training when they were in school.


Another barometer, Anastasia Volkova finished 8th. She is 2000-2200. She is a top player on her University team and practices 5 days a week.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LUCKYLOOP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/10/2014 at 2:07am
Originally posted by LUCKYLOOP LUCKYLOOP wrote:

Originally posted by LUCKYLOOP LUCKYLOOP wrote:


He finished 9th in that weekly club tournament with 17 partipants, all other players have had TT training when they were in school.


Another barometer, Anastasia Volkova finished 8th. She is 2000-2200. She is a top player on her University team and practices 5 days a week.


Another barometer, the guy in the red shirt in this video, Andrey Boldyrev, finished 7th.


....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/10/2014 at 3:32am
If only in place of these great barometers we had more video of the kid...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote collins.latag Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/10/2014 at 4:02am
because most are just analyzing from what they saw in the video which was an edited clip in favor of the kid's opponent.

I think the kid is more consistent than he seem... just my guess.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LUCKYLOOP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/11/2014 at 11:46pm
Originally posted by collins.latag collins.latag wrote:

because most are just analyzing from what they saw in the video which was an edited clip in favor of the kid's opponent.

I think the kid is more consistent than he seem... just my guess.


+1
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/13/2014 at 6:57am
If it was edited in favor of the opponent then the opponent needs some help even more than it appeared originally.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ChichoFicho Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/13/2014 at 7:33am
The problem with kids is that some shots are impossible for them, for example short balls. So even if they look good, you must lower your initial estimate with ~200 points to get their true rating.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LUCKYLOOP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/13/2014 at 12:56pm

Recap of poll votes

8 say over 1800

17 say under 1800

I say he is definitely over 1800 !
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote benfb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/14/2014 at 2:19am
Originally posted by LUCKYLOOP LUCKYLOOP wrote:


Recap of poll votes

8 say over 1800

17 say under 1800

I say he is definitely over 1800 !

I find it funny that every seems to know which player is "the kid" without asking. I look at that video and I see two kids.LOL

I assume we're talking about the younger kid. We have a 10 year old in our club whose play looks the same or slightly better, but very similar overall.  His level is about 1600. Being a kid, I've seen him beat 1800 players but also lose to 1400 players.  So for this video, I'd go 1500-1600.
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