DHS 40+ Ball Pix and Review

suds79 wrote: j-bo wrote: Got to play with the DHS ball. Less speed and spin and very noticeable at my low level (1300's) of play. The 1800-2000 level guys didn't care for it either as serves were less spiny and loops were less loopy. All commented on the weight when hitting. Watching others play, I could see the lack of speed and spin as they played. One player, who has a very good side spin loop..was struggling with it.  This sounds like the return of short pips to me. Short pips doesn't rely on spin as much.

OTOH the new ball bounces lower. And short pips need to take the ball at the highest.

Lower bounce favours loopers and choppers.

seguso wrote: suds79 wrote: j-bo wrote: Got to play with the DHS ball. Less speed and spin and very noticeable at my low level (1300's) of play. The 1800-2000 level guys didn't care for it either as serves were less spiny and loops were less loopy. All commented on the weight when hitting. Watching others play, I could see the lack of speed and spin as they played. One player, who has a very good side spin loop..was struggling with it.  This sounds like the return of short pips to me. Short pips doesn't rely on spin as much. OTOH the new ball bounces lower. And short pips need to take the ball at the highest. Lower bounce favours loopers and choppers.

Edited by suds79 - 06/27/2014 at 4:49pm

I got them on my desk. They seem pretty similar to regular 40mm balls. They are not that hard. Not that big. I don't think they are heavier. Texture looks a bit different but that's it...

XuShaFa balls will make very well for the blocking style. Yes ..Yes ..Yes.

I am a kin blocker, and I am A King Invincible while using XSF balls..
     CRISS CROSS is the best power play, and the plastic is the play enhancer.

All the brainy boys shall use cc and plastic, take my friendly advice.
GOOD LUCK.

I had an hour with the DHS ball last night...

The first thing we all noticed was that it isn't as bouncy as the Palio seamless prototype. The Palio's bounciness was a big part of its character, but the DHS ball feels really quite different. In a drop test, the 40+ bounces less than the celluloid and the Palio.

The second thing - the big thing - is the spin. You can hit a good shot with it, load the ball up, but by the time the ball lands on the other side of the table and bounces a lot of the spin has gone. Two loopers tried it out, and the rallies went on for ages. The spin brings the ball down as expected, so you can still play a loop-loop game, but it's so easy to re-loop (or block - blocking is ridiculously easy) that it's hard to force an error. So you get the spin effect in the air, the effect at the opponent's bat is reduced.

Service was better than the Palio because it's easier to keep the ball lower and shorter, but the lack of spin means fewer easy points off serve for sure.

The ball sound is better than the Palio. It sounds a bit more "hollow" than celluloid, but it doesn't have that high-pitched cat's bell tinkle noise of the Palio, which is a step in the right direction.

The ball feel on the bat is...well, nasty. Even though they're the same weight on my scales, the 40+ feels less substantial when you hit it. A few of the players swore to me that the 40+ was lighter. I think it's just how the ball feels on contact. Flimsy in some way.

I was using 5Q Sound on my BH at one point, and I found it very tricky. I had quite a few shots just drop off the rubber. No problems on FH, but personally I'll have to do some technique work on the other wing. You have to be direct and forceful. Brushy shots without power just won't work well.

So they will have to cut the current 11 point sets down to 5 to be able to keep down match duration for coverage purposes

This can be regarded as the evisceration of table tennis as it was known until now.

It's not THAT bad. We all commented that we could get used to the smaller issues.

The lack of spin will affect some styles more than others. Long pip players who rely mainly on reversal are stuffed. There is one player I know who's entire game is lobbing with extreme topspin. He's toast.

OTOH, one player at our club is an off-the-bounce flat hitter. He plays for extreme angles. He loves it. He can attack anything above net height, so it's hard not to play into his hands now.

Hans Regenkurt wrote: It gets me wondering whether it is possible to produce a rubber that can impart more spin. Have you tried it with the Tinarc 5? Mine is coming in about a week from now but I still have to get my hands on a plastic ball to try it out.

I do not like Tinarc 5. It doesn't work for me. Topsheet is not grippy enough for my needs.

I have no doubt that the equipment arms race is already underway. The Omega V line has abnormally high topsheet grip, for example.

"A bad workman quarrels with his tools", --you know.
And good player will get used to any balls just within a hour.

Of all the current plastics now available on market, DHS ball is the best sturdy one, it has increased mass to 2.85g, and larger diameter to 40.3 mm.   DHS tangibility is great due to the bigger impact impulse.
China's starred players all have favoured this ball.   

-------------
I only trust numbers, Human's senses fairly deceptive.
"Seeing is believing", - you know.

tt-panopticum wrote: The End is near......... seriously, IMHO that's not the case and I'd recomend everybody should try and give it a chance first. Looking at some completely contoversial views of certain equipement qualities should give us some idea about how "accurate" personal observations can be. Interestingly most high level players I know and who'd tried already the one or the other type of P-Ball were much more relaxed. I've now tried the old (red stamp) non approved XuShaoFa Balls, the approved ones with black stamp and last the DHS with seam. The XuShaoFa already made a little step from the last two versions - the DHS Ball is the next, bigger step. The DHS is slightly smaller, compared to the XSF - but only by 0.05-0.1 mm making it 40.20-40.25 those I had the time to check were slightly less precise in roundness (compared to XSF). DHS seems a bit softer than XSF but still harder than average Celluloid. To me it still feels harder(which during play feels a bit like beeing heavier) compared to C - sound isn't that bad as well (slightly higher pitch). I believe the "no spin" verdict from many peope isn't correct technically - I'd say it's reactions are surely different. While XSF is noticably easier to block, flip, loop on backspin etc.....it's a bit different with the DHS. Blocking still requires some feel for spin (but seems a bit easier compared to C) counter topsspin seems to be more tricky - somehow throwangle seems to be considerably higher, especially with stronger shots. I can only guess this is due to different way the ball dimples/deforms during contact. My guess is, this will be one of the real challenges for higher level players..... The end is near ? No, I don't think so.....

+1

I have experienced the same high throw (more obvious on BH) with the XuShaoFa ball...

I am also interested in players opinions on why this happens with the new ball...

Japanese magazine Table Tennis Kingdom reports today that Butterfly's 40+ seamed ball has just been approved, making it the third Japanese brand after Nittaku and TSP which were approved earlier this year in March and May, respectively.

OTOH, Hanno's seamless poly ball is the third brand after Xu Shaofa(1/14) and Palio(2/14) to be approved.

Last but not least, Kinson has their own version of 40+ ball, whether it's seamed or seamless is yet to be revealed.

NextLevel wrote: The XuShaofa ball, because it is seamless, is going to be nothing more than an interesting side conversation - nothing leads me to believe it will be widely adopted - it got most of its recognition by being first to market. The balls that should be taken seriously given the strength of the equipment manufacturers and the tournaments they may have access to being the official ball for (this is a bit US biased): Level 1: DHS/DoubleFish, Nittaku, Butterfly, Joola. Level 2: Stiga, Donic, Xiom and all the other good guys. Level 3: XuShaofa Poly Ball Level 4: Non-ITTF approved balls. If XuShaofa has a seamed ball, or the seamless ball gets more play, this might change.

Big sweeping statements...

You don't know who will be the market leader with the poly ball...

One major competition with too many broken balls could see the crumbling of a leading brand...

XuShaofa Sponsorship of a few comps. .... A few banners on TV... Who knows...?

There's always space for good quality 3 Star balls at a good price for amateur players...

CraneStyle wrote: NextLevel wrote: The XuShaofa ball, because it is seamless, is going to be nothing more than an interesting side conversation - nothing leads me to believe it will be widely adopted - it got most of its recognition by being first to market. The balls that should be taken seriously given the strength of the equipment manufacturers and the tournaments they may have access to being the official ball for (this is a bit US biased): Level 1: DHS/DoubleFish, Nittaku, Butterfly, Joola. Level 2: Stiga, Donic, Xiom and all the other good guys. Level 3: XuShaofa Poly Ball Level 4: Non-ITTF approved balls. If XuShaofa has a seamed ball, or the seamless ball gets more play, this might change. Big sweeping statements... You don't know who will be the market leader with the poly ball... One major competition with too many broken balls could see the crumbling of a leading brand... XuShaofa Sponsorship of a few comps. .... A few banners on TV... Who knows...? There's always space for good quality 3 Star balls at a good price for amateur players...

NextLevel wrote: CraneStyle wrote: NextLevel wrote: The XuShaofa ball, because it is seamless, is going to be nothing more than an interesting side conversation - nothing leads me to believe it will be widely adopted - it got most of its recognition by being first to market. The balls that should be taken seriously given the strength of the equipment manufacturers and the tournaments they may have access to being the official ball for (this is a bit US biased): Level 1: DHS/DoubleFish, Nittaku, Butterfly, Joola. Level 2: Stiga, Donic, Xiom and all the other good guys. Level 3: XuShaofa Poly Ball Level 4: Non-ITTF approved balls. If XuShaofa has a seamed ball, or the seamless ball gets more play, this might change. Big sweeping statements... You don't know who will be the market leader with the poly ball... One major competition with too many broken balls could see the crumbling of a leading brand... XuShaofa Sponsorship of a few comps. .... A few banners on TV... Who knows...? There's always space for good quality 3 Star balls at a good price for amateur players... <span style="line-height: 1.4;"> </span> <span style="line-height: 1.4;">They aren't sweeping statements - they are pretty reasonable based on how the TT landscape is shaped.  After all, if you had control of the situation, would you be moving to the polyball?  And the best ball isn't the ball used - it is the ball from the tournament sponsor.</span>

Dunlop 3 Crown Barna balls were once one of the best balls in the land...

... And tea was once consumed more than coffee...

... Things change...

NextLevel wrote: The XuShaofa ball, because it is seamless, is going to be nothing more than an interesting side conversation - nothing leads me to believe it will be widely adopted - it got most of its recognition by being first to market.

I disagree with the recognition bit.  It got most of its recognition because this was the design we were "promised" when the non-celluloid ball "program" was first announced and promoted by Adham Sharara.  This was what the new ball was "supposed" to be.  But they had problems keeping the wall thickness consistent.  Then there were disputes between the companies.  So DHS and others "punted" and developed non-celluloid seamed balls as a solution - possibly also as a solution to the problem of certain patents which were covered by patents.  A seamed ball should allow more flexibility in the choice of plastics that are used.

I agree that the seamless ball has been marginalized.  That's a shame, because the seamless concept has the theoretical potential to finally deliver balls with a "true" flight and bounce.

 


Edited by wturber - 07/01/2014 at 7:40pm