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DHS 40+ Ball Pix and Review |
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seguso
Gold Member Joined: 03/24/2010 Location: Italy Status: Offline Points: 1619 |
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OTOH the new ball bounces lower. And short pips need to take the ball at the highest. Lower bounce favours loopers and choppers. |
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pg5x - mxd fh & bh - 2015 video
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the_theologian
Premier Member Joined: 01/11/2009 Location: U.S. Status: Offline Points: 3895 |
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Btw I got a shipping notice two days ago
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Appelgren Allplay ST / Vega Europe max
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suds79
Silver Member Joined: 08/20/2012 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 878 |
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Guess it depends on what ball you use. I've seen reviews saying the ball bounces higher or is bouncier. Then you have an interesting observation from the tabletennisdailey guys who reviewed the Stiga ball in a video the other day. In the beginning their celluloid ball bounced higher. Then during play, I believe they said because of the hardness (can't fully remember), they said the poly ball bounced higher. Guess we'll find out soon enough.
Edited by suds79 - 06/27/2014 at 4:49pm |
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AndySmith
Premier Member Joined: 11/12/2008 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 4378 |
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My DHS 40+ have arrived from TT11 this morning. It's always great to get stuff on a Monday - it's training tonight. I'll have a few hours with them and report back. I still have my Palio seamless prototypes here, so I'll compare with those. It's not a hugely useful comparison going forward, but at least it gives some hint as to how things have progressed in the past 12 months or so.
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This was a great signature until I realised it was overrated.
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TSuBaSa
Gold Member Joined: 10/01/2003 Location: Turkey Status: Offline Points: 1147 |
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I got them on my desk. They seem pretty similar to regular 40mm balls. They are not that hard. Not that big. I don't think they are heavier. Texture looks a bit different but that's it...
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Nittaku Tenaly Acoustic Inner Carbon
Joola Rhyzer Pro 50 & 45 |
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TSuBaSa
Gold Member Joined: 10/01/2003 Location: Turkey Status: Offline Points: 1147 |
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Not heavier, not harder. Sounds different.
The most important thing is there is less spin. Easier to recieve a serv. Not that easy to keep it low though. There is less spin so ball just pops out. Not easy to kill. There is less spin so there is more time to recover. And it is easier to guess the spin. Rallies keeps going... But not that exiting. You need spinnier and dwelly rubber with dwelly and faster blade. |
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Nittaku Tenaly Acoustic Inner Carbon
Joola Rhyzer Pro 50 & 45 |
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igorponger
Premier Member Joined: 07/29/2006 Location: Everywhere Status: Offline Points: 3252 |
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XuShaFa balls will make very well for the blocking style. Yes ..Yes ..Yes.
I am a kin blocker, and I am A King Invincible while using XSF balls.. CRISS CROSS is the best power play, and the plastic is the play enhancer. All the brainy boys shall use cc and plastic, take my friendly advice. GOOD LUCK. |
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Hans Regenkurt
Silver Member Joined: 08/12/2005 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 826 |
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I spoke with a friend who has tried the plastic ball of one of the major European manufacturers and he says it is terrible.
Looking forward to Andy's insights. |
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AndySmith
Premier Member Joined: 11/12/2008 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 4378 |
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I had an hour with the DHS ball last night...
The first thing we all noticed was that it isn't as bouncy as the Palio seamless prototype. The Palio's bounciness was a big part of its character, but the DHS ball feels really quite different. In a drop test, the 40+ bounces less than the celluloid and the Palio. The second thing - the big thing - is the spin. You can hit a good shot with it, load the ball up, but by the time the ball lands on the other side of the table and bounces a lot of the spin has gone. Two loopers tried it out, and the rallies went on for ages. The spin brings the ball down as expected, so you can still play a loop-loop game, but it's so easy to re-loop (or block - blocking is ridiculously easy) that it's hard to force an error. So you get the spin effect in the air, the effect at the opponent's bat is reduced. Service was better than the Palio because it's easier to keep the ball lower and shorter, but the lack of spin means fewer easy points off serve for sure. The ball sound is better than the Palio. It sounds a bit more "hollow" than celluloid, but it doesn't have that high-pitched cat's bell tinkle noise of the Palio, which is a step in the right direction. The ball feel on the bat is...well, nasty. Even though they're the same weight on my scales, the 40+ feels less substantial when you hit it. A few of the players swore to me that the 40+ was lighter. I think it's just how the ball feels on contact. Flimsy in some way. I was using 5Q Sound on my BH at one point, and I found it very tricky. I had quite a few shots just drop off the rubber. No problems on FH, but personally I'll have to do some technique work on the other wing. You have to be direct and forceful. Brushy shots without power just won't work well. |
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This was a great signature until I realised it was overrated.
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TSuBaSa
Gold Member Joined: 10/01/2003 Location: Turkey Status: Offline Points: 1147 |
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+1 |
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Nittaku Tenaly Acoustic Inner Carbon
Joola Rhyzer Pro 50 & 45 |
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Hans Regenkurt
Silver Member Joined: 08/12/2005 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 826 |
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So they will have to cut the current 11 point sets down to 5 to be able to keep down match duration for coverage purposes
This can be regarded as the evisceration of table tennis as it was known until now. |
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NextLevel
Forum Moderator Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14842 |
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Can't believe I am actually rooting for equipment manufacturers to create game changing rubbers... this is sad.
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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AndySmith
Premier Member Joined: 11/12/2008 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 4378 |
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It's not THAT bad. We all commented that we could get used to the smaller issues.
The lack of spin will affect some styles more than others. Long pip players who rely mainly on reversal are stuffed. There is one player I know who's entire game is lobbing with extreme topspin. He's toast. OTOH, one player at our club is an off-the-bounce flat hitter. He plays for extreme angles. He loves it. He can attack anything above net height, so it's hard not to play into his hands now. |
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This was a great signature until I realised it was overrated.
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Hans Regenkurt
Silver Member Joined: 08/12/2005 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 826 |
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It gets me wondering whether it is possible to produce a rubber that can impart more spin. Have you tried it with the Tinarc 5? Mine is coming in about a week from now but I still have to get my hands on a plastic ball to try it out.
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AndySmith
Premier Member Joined: 11/12/2008 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 4378 |
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I do not like Tinarc 5. It doesn't work for me. Topsheet is not grippy enough for my needs. I have no doubt that the equipment arms race is already underway. The Omega V line has abnormally high topsheet grip, for example. |
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This was a great signature until I realised it was overrated.
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tt-panopticum
Member Joined: 08/22/2011 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 78 |
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The End is near.........
seriously, IMHO that's not the case and I'd recomend everybody should try and give it a chance first. Looking at some completely contoversial views of certain equipement qualities should give us some idea about how "accurate" personal observations can be. Interestingly most high level players I know and who'd tried already the one or the other type of P-Ball were much more relaxed. I've now tried the old (red stamp) non approved XuShaoFa Balls, the approved ones with black stamp and last the DHS with seam. The XuShaoFa already made a little step from the last two versions - the DHS Ball is the next, bigger step. The DHS is slightly smaller, compared to the XSF - but only by 0.05-0.1 mm making it 40.20-40.25 those I had the time to check were slightly less precise in roundness (compared to XSF). DHS seems a bit softer than XSF but still harder than average Celluloid. To me it still feels harder(which during play feels a bit like beeing heavier) compared to C - sound isn't that bad as well (slightly higher pitch). I believe the "no spin" verdict from many peope isn't correct technically - I'd say it's reactions are surely different. While XSF is noticably easier to block, flip, loop on backspin etc.....it's a bit different with the DHS. Blocking still requires some feel for spin (but seems a bit easier compared to C) counter topsspin seems to be more tricky - somehow throwangle seems to be considerably higher, especially with stronger shots. I can only guess this is due to different way the ball dimples/deforms during contact. My guess is, this will be one of the real challenges for higher level players..... The end is near ? No, I don't think so..... |
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igorponger
Premier Member Joined: 07/29/2006 Location: Everywhere Status: Offline Points: 3252 |
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"A bad workman quarrels with his tools", --you know.
And good player will get used to any balls just within a hour. Of all the current plastics now available on market, DHS ball is the best sturdy one, it has increased mass to 2.85g, and larger diameter to 40.3 mm. DHS tangibility is great due to the bigger impact impulse. China's starred players all have favoured this ball. ------------- I only trust numbers, Human's senses fairly deceptive. "Seeing is believing", - you know. |
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lineup32
Gold Member Joined: 12/06/2012 Location: Calif Status: Offline Points: 1195 |
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The idea that TT will have numerous balls that all have slightly different playing character seems unreal one cannot imagine professional baseball with each team using a different size ball when they pitched or play at home. This issue of ball uniformity may also impact club financial health as coaching flat ball hitters for tournament play may not require the same level of coaching as today and trying to make any ball the club standard will have many pitfalls as tournament players will want certain P balls and other players will want to use C balls for club events all these issues will impact the number of paying members and some clubs may even become C ball only putting further pressure on clubs that focus on training with the new balls.
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CraneStyle
Silver Member Joined: 08/06/2013 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 786 |
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+1 I have experienced the same high throw (more obvious on BH) with the XuShaoFa ball... I am also interested in players opinions on why this happens with the new ball... |
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1. Mizutani Jun ZLC, FH T80, BH T05
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NextLevel
Forum Moderator Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14842 |
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The XuShaofa ball, because it is seamless, is going to be nothing more than an interesting side conversation - nothing leads me to believe it will be widely adopted - it got most of its recognition by being first to market.
The balls that should be taken seriously given the strength of the equipment manufacturers and the tournaments they may have access to being the official ball for (this is a bit US biased): Level 1: DHS/DoubleFish, Nittaku, Butterfly, Joola. Level 2: Stiga, Donic, Xiom and all the other good guys. Level 3: XuShaofa Poly Ball Level 4: Non-ITTF approved balls. If XuShaofa has a seamed ball, or the seamless ball gets more play, this might change.
Edited by NextLevel - 07/01/2014 at 12:41pm |
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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zeio
Premier Member Joined: 03/25/2010 Status: Offline Points: 10833 |
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Japanese magazine Table Tennis Kingdom reports today that Butterfly's 40+ seamed ball has just been approved, making it the third Japanese brand after Nittaku and TSP which were approved earlier this year in March and May, respectively.
OTOH, Hanno's seamless poly ball is the third brand after Xu Shaofa(1/14) and Palio(2/14) to be approved. Last but not least, Kinson has their own version of 40+ ball, whether it's seamed or seamless is yet to be revealed. |
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Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare) + Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃) = 184.8g |
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tt-panopticum
Member Joined: 08/22/2011 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 78 |
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We should keep in mind:
DHS and DF seamless most likely is the producer of: Andro Donic Tibhar Butterfly TSP Nittaku SHA Stiga Cornilleau Giant Dragon Joola Sunflex XSF, Palio and Hanno most likely are also made in the same mill..... So, Nittaku Premium and DHS could be the only two currently making a P-Ball with seam, Butterfly and TSP definetely are "made in China", i.e. DHS/DF Interestingly most recent version of ITTF Technical Leaflet changes are, besides some larger technical tolerances, adding the requirement of "made in ......." signing on the ball. Butterfly and TSP are added after this TL change and accordingly already are marked that way - the other branded DHS balls are approved before the TL change and are only marked with country of company without the "made in" . |
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CraneStyle
Silver Member Joined: 08/06/2013 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 786 |
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Big sweeping statements... You don't know who will be the market leader with the poly ball... One major competition with too many broken balls could see the crumbling of a leading brand... XuShaofa Sponsorship of a few comps. .... A few banners on TV... Who knows...? There's always space for good quality 3 Star balls at a good price for amateur players... |
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1. Mizutani Jun ZLC, FH T80, BH T05
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igorponger
Premier Member Joined: 07/29/2006 Location: Everywhere Status: Offline Points: 3252 |
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BEWARE OF FAKE PRODUCT.
Boys, you all seem to forget about fake products. Our fellow forumer AndySmit seems to be the unlucky person as having now got a pseudo DHS. To all evidence, he just hit into a fake product. He is now reporting a feel of lighweight in testing the ball sample, and the lightweight indicates a fake. Genuine DHS is known to be an overweight ball, 2.85g. PRECAUTION FIRST !!!! Beware of the bold fakers, they are now looking around to swindle money out of a simpleton. For some economical reason, major manufacturers are now unwilling to supply plastic on market with open hand till January 2016. From now until 2016, a great supply of fake plastic balls is expected onto market under well famous brandnames. Superb opportunity for fakers. Fool hunting season is open !!!! LOOK OUT, MAN. |
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NextLevel
Forum Moderator Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14842 |
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They aren't sweeping statements - they are pretty reasonable based on how the TT landscape is shaped. After all, if you had control of the situation, would you be moving to the polyball? And the best ball isn't the ball used - it is the ball from the tournament sponsor. |
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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tommyzai
Premier Member Senior Animator Joined: 02/17/2007 Location: Tucson AZ USA Status: Offline Points: 9289 |
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Nexy has released a 40+ 3-star plastic ball. I placed an early-bird order. Review coming soon . . .
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For More Info, PM or Email me: [email protected]
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CraneStyle
Silver Member Joined: 08/06/2013 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 786 |
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Dunlop 3 Crown Barna balls were once one of the best balls in the land... ... And tea was once consumed more than coffee... ... Things change... |
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1. Mizutani Jun ZLC, FH T80, BH T05
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wturber
Premier Member Joined: 10/28/2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3899 |
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Different baseball fields have different sizes and shapes. Some fields are so-called "pithers' fields" and some are "hitters' fields." Tennis has three different playing surfaces - none of which are truly identical even withing their three sub-groups. Men's tennis has at least two different ball sizes and weights. 3 star 40 mm celluloid table tennis balls already have significant variations between different brands. We even have two different colors. Most top level tournaments played by pros will use whatever ball the ITTF selects as its ball for ITTF sanctioned tournaments. The variations between various 40+ TT balls isn't really much of an issue. |
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Jay Turberville
www.jayandwanda.com Hardbat: Nittaku Resist w/ Dr. Evil or Friendship 802-40 OX |
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wturber
Premier Member Joined: 10/28/2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3899 |
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I disagree with the recognition bit. It got most of its recognition because this was the design we were "promised" when the non-celluloid ball "program" was first announced and promoted by Adham Sharara. This was what the new ball was "supposed" to be. But they had problems keeping the wall thickness consistent. Then there were disputes between the companies. So DHS and others "punted" and developed non-celluloid seamed balls as a solution - possibly also as a solution to the problem of certain patents which were covered by patents. A seamed ball should allow more flexibility in the choice of plastics that are used. I agree that the seamless ball has been marginalized. That's a shame, because the seamless concept has the theoretical potential to finally deliver balls with a "true" flight and bounce. Edited by wturber - 07/01/2014 at 7:40pm |
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Jay Turberville
www.jayandwanda.com Hardbat: Nittaku Resist w/ Dr. Evil or Friendship 802-40 OX |
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wturber
Premier Member Joined: 10/28/2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3899 |
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I think the fact that DHS has the ITTF contract and was "in bed" with the ITTF from the beginning on the switch to non-celluloid really increases the likelihood that the DHS ball will be a market leader for a while. They'd have to produce junk ball for that not to be the case. And that, while possible, seems unlikely. |
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Jay Turberville
www.jayandwanda.com Hardbat: Nittaku Resist w/ Dr. Evil or Friendship 802-40 OX |
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