DHS 40+ Ball Pix and Review

I would analyze each property of the new ball separately:

lower bounce: favors close to table loopers and long pips choppers, harms short pips. Unclear for mid distance loopers; harms third ball players.

slower: favors close to table loopers, long pips choppers; harms third ball players. probably harms mid distance loopers. favors defenders who lob.

less spin: harms third ball players, close to table loopers; favors mid distance loopers; harms log pips choppers. Probably favors short pips.

So the overall result is unclear. There are conflicting factors.

Breaking news: Latest test by pros (Schlager academy) say that the days of frictionless anti, and frictionless long pips, at the table, are finished, as you can powerloop and kill their blocks. I haven't asked if this holds for long pips choppers as well.



Edited by seguso - 07/24/2014 at 4:36am

The LP players at my club love the ball at the moment.  They can block anything and they can often make the ball fall short.  Maybe they are finished at a 2500+ level or after everyone adjusts to the new ball, but they are doing fine at the moment.

AndySmith wrote: NextLevel wrote: The LP players at my club love the ball at the moment.  They can block anything and they can often make the ball fall short.  Maybe they are finished at a 2500+ level or after everyone adjusts to the new ball, but they are doing fine at the moment. This is just keeping the ball on the table. Admirable in itself, but without the extremes of spin reversal there will be far fewer errors from the opponent. At the lower levels, this is where the points come from IMO - not blocking people down and depth changes. Opponents with good movement will have no issues with that.

Edited by NextLevel - 07/24/2014 at 6:02am

The long pips styles I play against are pushblockers and choppers, with many of the later incorporating some of the strokes of the former as variations.  The pushblockers love the ball - the choppers also do, but for different reasons.  Generally, offensive players are the ones going to hate this ball the most because of the loss of speed - you have to work harder to place the ball to win the point. Just looping at someone to make them pop up the ball is not what it used to be.

Love playing vs the OX pushblocker crowd no matter what ball is used.

I just compared five different new balls in a bounce test. Seamless versions (palio and Xsf) bounce considerably higher than the other three (nittaku, double fish, and dhs). Seamless bounce closest to the old ball

*all balls mentioned were ITTF approved versions

roundrobin wrote: NextLevel wrote: Generally, offensive players are the ones going to hate this ball the most because of the loss of speed - you have to work harder to place the ball to win the point. Just looping at someone to make them pop up the ball is not what it used to be. I have noticed my regular inverted setup is too slow for the new ball.  My short pips setup is fine though.  In fact, I feel it's easier to load up with power with short pips playing with the new ball than celluloid ball.

lineup32 wrote:  tournament wise were are you going to play with the new ball? Nationals in Dec other then that do you know of any tournaments that will feature the new ball? or will your local club sponsor local RR with the new ball?

The new balls are still pretty rare around here, but as soon as availability improves I think everyone will switch to it.  There's no point to play with the old ball if all major ITTF events will be using the new one coming this September. 

I have a strong feeling that the upcoming Nationals will switch to the new ball, even though at this moment the USATT is signaling that celluloid balls will still be used.  It won't make any sense to stick with celluloid balls when all big ITTF events will be using the new ones for 3-4 months by then, and all of our cadets, juniors and adult national team members would have been trained with these new balls as well. 

The celluloid ball is history (so are most loopers' setups, unfortunately).

3rd day with DHS poly balls, 3rd ball broken. New poly ball has serious durability issues. I had a few units that also had roundness issues, I feel really disappointed with them. At least, seamless are way more durable so ill probably stick with them. I can't bear ittf is dealing with a beta ball, though approved are we're mere lab rats on their experiments.

After another two hours testing, I have to say it is not as good as I first thought. We played a lot of doubles matches where my partner was a chopper who twiddles often and hits / loops with his inverted.

It really sucks to be the partner of a chopper now. We got beat very easily by our opponents who used a simple tactic: they served long and if the chopper chopped it, they played a soft loop into my backhand. It is extremely difficult to loop back because of the inertness of the ball and the different flight path. They almost always finished the point this way.

There were some other situations which lead me to the conclusion that there will be no point in making a chopper-attacker pair in the style of Robert Gardos and Chen Weixing. The ball dips sooner and there is not so much spin, an attacker-attacker pair will be able to mess up an attacker-defender pair completely. Over the table loops are impossible in doubles (too) , all you can do is push back the ball when receiving.

One bad decision on placement and there is no way your partner can correct it. Everybody has to be extremely careful now with their placement, much more than before.

I played a singles match against the chopper and an additional two sets. I rested for 15 minutes before we started, he was well warmed up because he had received one hours coaching and had played a match with somebody else with the celluloid ball. We did no hitting up and he beat me 3:0. I tried the things I normally do with the old ball. I had to find here too that over the table loops do not work.

It is true that chops can seem more dangerous but it will mean nothing at the pros level who play about 25-30 hours a week. None of his chops were as dangerous now and when I stopped trying to attack his serves and just pushed them back, I beat him comfortably. It is very difficult to hit a winner but as the ball dips sooner and stay lower, choppers can be killed with constant loops, true, every attacker will have to loop a lot more in each rally.

Overall, I have to modify my initial analysis, the new ball is not 10% slower but  about 20% - 25%. Whoever gets in the first attack is at more advantage than before because there is not as much momentum on the ball and it is more difficult to come back into a rally.

Some long pips will be less effective, this is for sure. The long pips we tried were: Dawei 388 D 0.5 mm, Sanwei Code 0.5 mm, Kokutaku Tuple 911 0.5 mm, Feint Long III OX

None produced to dangerous chops except for the Sanwei Code. However, it is very difficult to control and there is not much point in using it because it benefit the opponent. Only 3 out of every 10 shots were dangerous and it sends balls into the net the rest of the time.

The Dawei and the Kokutaku are so-so but they are harder than the Code. Control is better but they do not produce as dangerous chops by far. The Ox Feint is not too dangerous either.

I tend to think that the new ball in its current form does more harm than good. The three of us who played the doubles with the exception of the chopper agreed that it was not so much fun

Well, yes and no. The placement thing would be positive in itself but the ball behaves awkwardly enough in other aspects.

I do not think that rubbers can improve the spin and speed, neither can muscles. Maybe the Vera de Milo (Jim Carrey in Living Colour) kind of female players will rule the ranking lists The ball dips so soon and stays so low that there are a lot less opportunities for a player to counterattack effectively while the ball is so slow.

So on the one hand it requires more a tactical game but on the other the ball produces such behaviour that unjustly limits the players options, resulting in a dumber game.

sandiway wrote: roundrobin wrote: Club: Los Angeles Table Tennis Association; RR Tournament Director, 2008-present  A bit off-topic, BTW, RoundRobin, should this signature of yours be updated? I visited LATTA very recently, and I was saddened to hear that the Saturday afternoon RR hasn't been run for quite a while.  Sandiway

Yes, our Saturday afternoon RR is temporarily on hold as I am busy with school... Meanwhile, we have changed our USATT-sanctioned LATTA Open RR tournaments from being held quarterly to monthly to satisfy our members' desire for top competition.  As soon as I am done with school the weekly RR will be back. 

roundrobin wrote: lineup32 wrote:  tournament wise were are you going to play with the new ball? Nationals in Dec other then that do you know of any tournaments that will feature the new ball? or will your local club sponsor local RR with the new ball? The new balls are still pretty rare around here, but as soon as availability improves I think everyone will switch to it.  There's no point to play with the old ball if all major ITTF events will be using the new one coming this September.  I have a strong feeling that the upcoming Nationals will switch to the new ball, even though at this moment the USATT is signaling that celluloid balls will still be used.  It won't make any sense to stick with celluloid balls when all big ITTF events will be using the new ones for 3-4 months by then, and all of our cadets, juniors and adult national team members would have been trained with these new balls as well.  The celluloid ball is history (so are most loopers' setups, unfortunately).

If we kept both balls and had players flip coins and choose, it would add another layer to the game.

roundrobin wrote: lineup32 wrote:  tournament wise were are you going to play with the new ball? Nationals in Dec other then that do you know of any tournaments that will feature the new ball? or will your local club sponsor local RR with the new ball? The new balls are still pretty rare around here, but as soon as availability improves I think everyone will switch to it.  There's no point to play with the old ball if all major ITTF events will be using the new one coming this September.  I have a strong feeling that the upcoming Nationals will switch to the new ball, even though at this moment the USATT is signaling that celluloid balls will still be used.  It won't make any sense to stick with celluloid balls when all big ITTF events will be using the new ones for 3-4 months by then, and all of our cadets, juniors and adult national team members would have been trained with these new balls as well.  The celluloid ball is history (so are most loopers' setups, unfortunately).

Myself and another guy played with the new ball last Wednesday night. He is a heavy spinner from both sides, the new ball messed his timing up a lot. Using his new setup he was playing great vs the celluloid ball.

I am more of a loop hitter from both sides, the new ball did not mess up my timing much. I just had to watch the bounce which is different then react.