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XVT - Chinese knockoffs or OEM?
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ZingyDNA View Drop Down
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^ The rubbers are obviously fake. Are you looking at an authorized store of XVT?
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hookumsnivy View Drop Down
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Originally posted by ZingyDNA ZingyDNA wrote:

^ The rubbers are obviously fake. Are you looking at an authorized store of XVT?

I followed the link from their page:
http://www.xvt.cc/aliexpress-store
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assam View Drop Down
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I think they have fake rubbers and they copy some blades. But the one I've bought it's really the best I've tryed for blocking (ZL Fiber). I'm just trying to find a good FH rubber (already tried Tenergy 05 and 80, Tibhar Evo MX-P and EL-P and none had worked well... I'll try tomorrow the Hurricane 3-50 with booster)

Edited by assam - 09/10/2014 at 6:42pm
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hookumsnivy View Drop Down
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Here's some advice:  don't sell fake rubbers in your store.  It makes people question all your products and keeps customers away.
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assam View Drop Down
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I agree with that. If they would sell only genuine products they would have better sucess IMO
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Baal View Drop Down
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Originally posted by assam assam wrote:

I agree with that. If they would sell only genuine products they would have better sucess IMO


Yes.  That seems like a pretty minimal requirement to meet.
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Vlad0 View Drop Down
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It's sounds me like "hey i payed almost 400$ for this blade but you only 40$ ... and they look the same .... oh no". If i were the owner of XVT i would do copies of the most expensive and famous blades exactly 1 on 1 with my XVT logo on the handle of course, which is fair enough, saying "copy of a ridiculously expensive blade". The priority will be the quality for sure. If i can't get quality i will not start at all. And maybe inscription "If you like the copy, you may buy the original, but we can't guarantee it will be better !". Most peoples are slaves to brand and thats why the prices are these, so making mine is no good for my business. You know there are much more peoples who can't afford such prices and i will always prefer to buy clone blade for 40 instead for 400. It is always better to buy this for 40$ and to make a donation. Not to mention that after 3 years for example they can decide to sell blades for 1000$. 

PS

Hey this brown handle is my invention. I was first. Don't use this color in yours.

OR

Hey this is my kind of forehand. Find your way to hit the ball. 
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Baal View Drop Down
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Isn't that pretty much what they are doing?
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Let's just say XVT isn't the most tactical when it comes to selling their 'designs'.
The question you have to ask yourself is, why buy it?
Buying Chinese made online means you CAN get real DHS for acceptable money.

Heck, we all know that eBay seller in Tianjin and he doesn't even sell XVT.
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debraj View Drop Down
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Originally posted by hithithit hithithit wrote:

......

Everytime you buy a counterfeit goods, know well you could be supporting organised crime or someone who has little regards for others.


on contrary, everytime i buy authentic butterfly product; i feel like supporting organised crime !!!
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debraj View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Imago Imago wrote:

Originally posted by zeio zeio wrote:

XVT looks to be a brand run/owned? by former CNT player Xi Enting, like the brand XuShaoFa.


Looks more like Sanwei material.


what???? .. you know them by their woods?
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debraj View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

Originally posted by achoomai achoomai wrote:

So , would you complain Yinhe as well since they also make a lot of clone blades (even they have some own design blade) ?


I have many times.  I think they also suck for doing this. Because of this practice, I would never buy anything made by Yinhe. But what you friend is doing is even more egregious in terms of even stealing some of the symbols on the blades (like the dragon on the ZJK clone and the Timo Boll logo on that clone) just to make it perfectly clear to everyone what he is shamelessly copying.  He must be working in a country where there is no such thing as copyright or patent infringement. 

By the way, Yinhe does make a few of their own novel blades as you note (although to the best of my knowledge few if any profesional players use them). 

Your friend should come up with his own innovative blades if he wants to be taken seriously. (That is how he will make more money also). For now, IMHO, it is contemptible. 

Nobody has a patent on use of a material in a blade as far as I know.  Xiom also uses Zylon, and lots of companies have used aramid, kevlar, etc.  I don't have a problem with that.   



fatt: i disagree!!

its an age of consumer's preference.

If butterfly sells "no special perceptible difference" blades, and use its expensive advertising dollars, to sell them to consumers at 12 times the cost of manufacturing..... market mechanism SHOULD come up with equivalent products at much lower price point.. to benefit the consumers.

if butterfly felt the products or designs are so unique and technologically advanced that they bring in incredible advantage to players... then they should have paid money and globally patented the design.

Otherwise ... the equivalent design helps thousands of potential low cost buyers identify the blade characteristics in the jungle of inflated marketing literature.


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Baal View Drop Down
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Agree to disagree here, obviously buy what you want, but I think it's pretty pathetic and I have no respect for someone who can't come up with their own design.  None.  And if they sell you a fake Tenergy to go with it and it plays like crap, well you got what you deserved.  But I don't think in this case it's actually XVT that's slapping fake rubber on the blades.  So I don't think as yet they've crossed that line. 
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debraj View Drop Down
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Baal... agree to disagree further. :)

if i am buying things with objective of improving my games... and not to support global innovation.

(frankly i wouldn't have bought butterfly rubbers then, as they were not the first to make sandwitched inverted rubbers. probably not even arylate blades).

If i can afford a store brand equivalent, or a generic medication, i would rather use that and get cured... instead of saying "let me be sick and appreciate innovation".


now playing crap or great is unrelated to this discussion. i have plenty of crap tenergy ... and i have clone blades which played better than a piece of original blade.

there is no point thinking if i make a new design, the blade will play great... and if a copy a design it will play crap, because i didn't admire innovation!!
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hookumsnivy View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

Agree to disagree here, obviously buy what you want, but I think it's pretty pathetic and I have no respect for someone who can't come up with their own design.  None.  And if they sell you a fake Tenergy to go with it and it plays like crap, well you got what you deserved.  But I don't think in this case it's actually XVT that's slapping fake rubber on the blades.  So I don't think as yet they've crossed that line. 

They're selling the "Tenergy" and "H3 National" in their store and calling it authentic.  That's crossing the line.  It's one thing if someone else was selling it, but when it's being sold in their store they are responsible.  Or should I say irresponsible?
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Baal View Drop Down
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Originally posted by hookumsnivy hookumsnivy wrote:

Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

Agree to disagree here, obviously buy what you want, but I think it's pretty pathetic and I have no respect for someone who can't come up with their own design.  None.  And if they sell you a fake Tenergy to go with it and it plays like crap, well you got what you deserved.  But I don't think in this case it's actually XVT that's slapping fake rubber on the blades.  So I don't think as yet they've crossed that line. 

They're selling the "Tenergy" and "H3 National" in their store and calling it authentic.  That's crossing the line.  It's one thing if someone else was selling it, but when it's being sold in their store they are responsible.  Or should I say irresponsible?



Yes, I stand corrected.  Way crossing the line.  Horrible.  Dishonest.  Pathetic.
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Imago View Drop Down
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Originally posted by hookumsnivy hookumsnivy wrote:


And then there's this one:

http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/NEW-ARRIVAL-XVT-ZL-KOTO-Table-Tennis-Racket-Table-Tennis-Bat-Butterfly-Tenergy-05-and-National/318693_2027325881.html

T05 + H3 blue sponge national + a blade for $46.55?



Just 10 times less than the prototype blade alone. There is something revolutionary and truly liberating in this kind of meeting people's needs while slapping the greedy capitalist sharks in the face.
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Baal View Drop Down
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Points: 14336 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/11/2014 at 11:16pm
Imago, how about I take one of your books and publish it with my name as author?  Very revolutionary idea.  Striking a blow for freedom and all that.  Liberating.
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Imago View Drop Down
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I will be glad if you do that. But don't forget to put the corresponding low price tag so that more people could read it.

With their high prices, BTY are crossing all lines and deserve such kind of reaction.
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hookumsnivy View Drop Down
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I have no problem with people trying to clone blades or rubbers as long as they are honest about it.  So many blades and rubbers are similar already anyways.  
It will still come down to craftsmanship, quality control, durability, etc.

I think it's different if it's patented/patentable intellectual property.  Blade construction (unless you invent your own composite material) is not in that category.
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While free market allows unique and groundbreaking products safeguard against its revenue potential....

It also imposes its intrinsic balancing criteria, which is ...if you jack up the price way beyond its cost; you are increasing the the potential incentive to copy it.

i'm just emphasizing imago's point. Its for the owner to decide at which price point he can be incentivized for his novel idea. And at which price point you are create very high incentive to clone.


Now there is a situation that your cost of idea (read r&D) is so high, that you have to sell it at way beyond cost price (like a silicon chip or a new drug), and in those cases you have to invest in securing a trademark.


not doing any of the above, and shouting "copycat!" "intellectual piracy" "unfair"   .... is lame to me.
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Baal View Drop Down
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While all that is rationally arguable (certainly the part about the incentive is indisputable, and also the part about the consequences of not having a patent), it doesn't give you the right to sell stuff from your own store that is not merely a clone, but is actually a counterfeit.  It seems XVT has crossed that line.

As for Butterfly crying "copycat" or "intellectual property", in fairness and to the best of my knowledge they are not doing that.  There are just a few of us here who retain our own opinion about what XVT is doing (my own is that it is fairly pathetic).  At the same time, I think the prices Btfly is charging for some of their new blades are completely insane but I prefer ALC to this material anyway. 
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