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Yinhe Big Dipper - Review

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rusttt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/09/2014 at 9:03pm
Any dealers in the US have it yet?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AndySmith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/10/2014 at 4:11am
This was a great signature until I realised it was overrated.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bluehorseshoe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/10/2014 at 9:21am
China friend listed it on Ebay for $18.99.  It says there are 6 left.  Free shipping, but you have to wait for it to come from China.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html_from=R40&_trksid=p4712.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.Xyinhe+big+dipper+rubber&_nkw=yinhe+big+dipper+rubber&_sacat=0


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/11/2014 at 11:11am
Just received that last black sheet (and a red sheet) from TT-store.eu.

I will try the black on the forehand (it has a blue sponge) and the red on the backhand (it has a yellow sponge) - seems that Yinhe is smart about their sponge colors so that if better players use them, they can always tell EJs stories ;).

The preliminary view here is that this is Giant Dragon Superspin G3 with maybe a better pimple geometry - honestly, I didn't have much experience with pretuned Chinese rubbers other than that but the packaging is very similar and even the look and feel is too.  I never tried other Yinhe/Galaxy rubbers - maybe they share the same manufacturer.

The one thing is that I used Giant Dragon when I still used rubber cement but it was also well known that GD had quality control issues.  I did like the rubber a lot (had awesome tackiness for heavy pushes, even at my 1400 level then, 2000 level players used to say my push was heavy). Hopefully, being wiser about what the tuning layer does and using WBG will make this play and last better.

Will test in club later today, though I have a tournament tomorrow and will likely not over do it.  But who cares about the tournament anyways...
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/11/2014 at 9:57pm
It plays pretty well but does not reward passive play at all on either side. Either you spin, punch or smash - passive blocking required angles that I couldn't comfortably use against my superspin opponent (shay2be). Since I want to make my game more active and rebuild my strokes, I will probably switch to this rubber after tomorrow and use for a significant amount of time on both sides. Used on a Vega Euro blade
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rusttt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/12/2014 at 4:46pm
Originally posted by AndySmith AndySmith wrote:

tnha on eBay now have them, but you have to buy a pair...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2x-Yinhe-Big-Dipper-Max-Tense-Tacky-Pips-In-Table-Tennis-Rubber-with-sponge-/261622060164?pt=UK_Sports_TableTennis_RL&var=&hash=item3ce9e3d484

Ordered from Eacheng. Sounds like fun and a good match for my style!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AndySmith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/12/2014 at 4:53pm
It's a cracking rubber. It has a bit of everything available to you. Brush thin and you get the low(er) arc, skiddy, spinny ball you associate with Chinese tacky rubbers. Hit into the sponge and you get the high(er) arc with late dip you might get from eurojap rubbers. Just varying between the two shots can get you a lot of points (or set you up for a winner).

NL is right though - this is on heavier shots. It's not particularly effective if you just noodle around with it (although it does give a heavy push, IMO).
This was a great signature until I realised it was overrated.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hans Regenkurt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/21/2014 at 6:15am
How does it topspin compared to T05? And what about counterlooping with it?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AndySmith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/21/2014 at 6:28am
Originally posted by Hans Regenkurt Hans Regenkurt wrote:

How does it topspin compared to T05? And what about counterlooping with it?




It compares well with T05 on harder strokes, and it brushes better too. It doesn't have the T05 grab on medium effort strokes (although not much does). And it has a really different feel - more Chinese, obviously. It isn't a Tenergy alternative, but I play far better with Big Dipper on my FH than with any Tenergy.

It counterloops well too, but my 38 degree does feel like it's bottoming out during epic rallies, so I do get the occasional ball dumped into the net. I've ordered 39 and 40 degree versions to see if this helps - the 38 might not be stable enough for high-level countering.

The 38 degree also feels a bit two-geared, so I'm hoping the harder sponges make it a bit more linear. I quite like the 38 degree on my BH, so I might end up with it on both sides (harder sponge on FH).
This was a great signature until I realised it was overrated.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dual700 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/21/2014 at 12:00pm
Andy and NextLevel, have you guys tried Sanwei T88-1 without target stamp on the sponge?

I just got my BD last night, will test it on the same blade as my T88-1 this week.

Just from bouncing and slicing the ball on the racket, it feels like faster, last tacky Galaxy Venus 2 with a thinner topsheet
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AndySmith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/21/2014 at 3:39pm
Originally posted by dual700 dual700 wrote:

Andy and NextLevel, have you guys tried Sanwei T88-1 without target stamp on the sponge?


Nope, sorry.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bluehorseshoe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/21/2014 at 5:59pm
I used Sanwei T88-I for a while(though it was maybe 2 years ago), but just glued the Big Dipper yesterday and only tried it for a bit against the robot.  I'll try to offer what little insight I can though.

They are very different rubbers.  The last two FH rubbers I used were TG3 Neo and Palio Haidou on my FH, but the Big Dipper feels like a tacky rubber on brush strokes, probably tackier than the TG3 Neo.  If you just bounce a ball on your paddle, the bounces are lower like a tacky rubber as opposed to a eurojap rubber.  I think if you brushed everything, it would be a suitable replacement for a chinese style tacky rubber with the regular minimal adjustment.  The T88-I isn't tacky at all on the surface, so you won't get the same results with the brush stroke.  BD has a tacky and very glossy topsheet which looks really nice, while I remember the T88-I to be very matte.  I also remember the T88-I being really heavy, while this is lighter, maybe just heavy.  The T88-I is more linear than the Big dipper, at least to me.  There is definitely a point where you go from a brushing stroke to a more heavy stroke and it feels like it is a different rubber.  It's easy enough to differentiate regularly.  I noticed I was missing a lot of flips initially, though some of that is just unfamiliarity with the rubber generally, but it is probably somewhere near that level of force that it seems to change a bit.  I would say on brushing strokes you can get noticeably more spin with the Big Dipper.  Probably with the bigger away from the table strokes too.  My guess is the T88 is more powerful on a flat stroke, but I could probably land a harder stroke with the BD.  It seems that you definitely have to put in the effort to get the best out of this rubber though, as it doesn't seem to have the effortless power of a eurojap rubber to me.  On tired, sloppy strokes, you'll probably get better results with the T88.  I don't remember the throw angles well enough to compare for sure, but the BD is reasonably high throw, while I remember the T88-I to be very high, but don't quote me on that.  

I did give it a try on my BH, and it played reasonably close to the XSIIE I have on the other side.  Probably a tad slower, and I can't say for sure how exactly the spin compares without an opponent.  At less than $20, it's definitely worth a try, and I'd consider it an upgrade from the T88. 
Feedback: Bluehorseshoe
http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=68077&PID=823122#823122
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hookumsnivy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/21/2014 at 6:04pm
Originally posted by bluehorseshoe bluehorseshoe wrote:

 At less than $20, it's definitely worth a try, and I'd consider it an upgrade from the T88. 

Where did you order it from?  At that cost, I'll try it on my backup blade Big smile
My FH on my main setup doesn't need replacing yet.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/21/2014 at 6:32pm
It's great value for the price   I would recommend using the sheets that cover the glue layer as protector sheets. Will try other sponge hardness if it becomes available from a US seller.
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bluehorseshoe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/21/2014 at 7:20pm
I bought mine from China-friend on Ebay.  I believe that is the same person as eacheng.net.  From my brief experience ordering from him, it appears that shipments fly from here on Fridays, so you should order enough before then, maybe Wednesday, that the package will make the Friday flight.  

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Yinhe-Big-Dipper-Max-Tense-Tacky-Table-Tennis-Rubber-Sponge-NEW-/311126215034?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item487091497a
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hookumsnivy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/21/2014 at 7:43pm
Originally posted by bluehorseshoe bluehorseshoe wrote:

I bought mine from China-friend on Ebay.  I believe that is the same person as eacheng.net.  From my brief experience ordering from him, it appears that shipments fly from here on Fridays, so you should order enough before then, maybe Wednesday, that the package will make the Friday flight.  

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Yinhe-Big-Dipper-Max-Tense-Tacky-Table-Tennis-Rubber-Sponge-NEW-/311126215034?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item487091497a

What was the sponge hardness?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bluehorseshoe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/21/2014 at 9:22pm
It was a 38 sponge.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hookumsnivy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/21/2014 at 9:28pm
Darn, I was hoping to try 39 to match my h3 neo
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dual700 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/21/2014 at 10:35pm
Originally posted by bluehorseshoe bluehorseshoe wrote:

I used Sanwei T88-I for a while(though it was maybe 2 years ago), but just glued the Big Dipper yesterday and only tried it for a bit against the robot.  I'll try to offer what little insight I can though.

They are very different rubbers.  The last two FH rubbers I used were TG3 Neo and Palio Haidou on my FH, but the Big Dipper feels like a tacky rubber on brush strokes, probably tackier than the TG3 Neo.  If you just bounce a ball on your paddle, the bounces are lower like a tacky rubber as opposed to a eurojap rubber.  I think if you brushed everything, it would be a suitable replacement for a chinese style tacky rubber with the regular minimal adjustment.  The T88-I isn't tacky at all on the surface, so you won't get the same results with the brush stroke.  BD has a tacky and very glossy topsheet which looks really nice, while I remember the T88-I to be very matte.  I also remember the T88-I being really heavy, while this is lighter, maybe just heavy.  The T88-I is more linear than the Big dipper, at least to me.  There is definitely a point where you go from a brushing stroke to a more heavy stroke and it feels like it is a different rubber.  It's easy enough to differentiate regularly.  I noticed I was missing a lot of flips initially, though some of that is just unfamiliarity with the rubber generally, but it is probably somewhere near that level of force that it seems to change a bit.  I would say on brushing strokes you can get noticeably more spin with the Big Dipper.  Probably with the bigger away from the table strokes too.  My guess is the T88 is more powerful on a flat stroke, but I could probably land a harder stroke with the BD.  It seems that you definitely have to put in the effort to get the best out of this rubber though, as it doesn't seem to have the effortless power of a eurojap rubber to me.  On tired, sloppy strokes, you'll probably get better results with the T88.  I don't remember the throw angles well enough to compare for sure, but the BD is reasonably high throw, while I remember the T88-I to be very high, but don't quote me on that.  

I did give it a try on my BH, and it played reasonably close to the XSIIE I have on the other side.  Probably a tad slower, and I can't say for sure how exactly the spin compares without an opponent.  At less than $20, it's definitely worth a try, and I'd consider it an upgrade from the T88. 

Thanks, I think you were using T88-1 with Target sponge, hence the heavy rubber Smile
The one without Target stamp on sponge is much much lighter. I've been using both for over 2 years now. Initially when they are both new, the bounce and the tack (T88-1 has some tack when new) are similar to BD, just from bouncing and slicing the ball...

I will try both side to side tomorrow. Hopefully BD is an upgrade for T88-1 Big smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AndySmith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/22/2014 at 5:20am
Originally posted by hookumsnivy hookumsnivy wrote:

Darn, I was hoping to try 39 to match my h3 neo


From what Tony has written, the hardnesses aren't equivalent. The 40deg Big Dipper still feels a bit softer than a 40 degree H3N. BD's sponge is porous, and the topsheet is softer, so it's hard to compare directly to something like H3N anyway. Different feel.

If you want to compare to H3N, I'd order the hardest you can. I've got some 39 and 40 degree coming to me from eaching now.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/22/2014 at 7:11am
Has anyone tried any sponges other than 38 deg?
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
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FH/BH: H3P 41D.
Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hookumsnivy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/22/2014 at 7:56am
Originally posted by AndySmith AndySmith wrote:

Originally posted by hookumsnivy hookumsnivy wrote:

Darn, I was hoping to try 39 to match my h3 neo


From what Tony has written, the hardnesses aren't equivalent. The 40deg Big Dipper still feels a bit softer than a 40 degree H3N. BD's sponge is porous, and the topsheet is softer, so it's hard to compare directly to something like H3N anyway. Different feel.

If you want to compare to H3N, I'd order the hardest you can. I've got some 39 and 40 degree coming to me from eaching now.

I don't see an option on eacheng for 39 or 40 degree.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AndySmith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/22/2014 at 8:32am
Originally posted by hookumsnivy hookumsnivy wrote:

I don't see an option on eacheng for 39 or 40 degree.


I sent him a message via the eBay store at the start of this week. At that point, he had:

Black 38,39
Red 38,39,40
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dual700 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/23/2014 at 1:59am
OK, got about 2 hour of play with DP.
Setup:
A. Xiom ZQ:
- Spectol 1.8 mm bh
- Red BD max 38 degree

B. Xiom ZQ:
- Spectol 1.8 mm bh
- Red Sanwei T88-1 (no target stamp sponge) max 38 degree

To summarize:

Speed: BD>T88-1
Spin: T88-1>BD
Control: BD>T88-1
Throw: T88-1 High
            BD Medium High

When I received BD, it immediately reminded me of good, affordable, Galaxy Mercury 2. The topsheet is very similar, including the initial tack of new rubber, which goes away quickly. Mercury 2, however has very fragile sponge, yet it's also porous like BD.

BD is great in almost any areas. Looping is a breeze, my loops go on the table most of the time. Better control for sure, it's got more gears than T88-1. Blocking is great, very linear. Serving long and short, no problems there. It can do pretty much everything. I would say it's an upgrade for the $4 Mercury 2.

(For those who wants a great, affordable, attacking rubber should give Mercury 2 a try, I have not find anything like that rubber for the price, and i've tried tons of cheap rubbers that people recommended over the years on the internet Big smile)

I definitely will use BD if I haven't found T88-1. T88-1 requires perfect techniques when looping. BD is more forgiving, but T88-1 is more rewarding in terms of spin and power. 
The arc and amount of spin with T88-1 is enormous when I do full swing. Usually when I do this some of the 2200+ players in my club have hard time blocking it. However, it only has 1 gear, not like BD.
When I do power loop with BD, the effect is not as devastating. My opponents can return it easier.
However, opening loops, flicking and drives are much easier with BD, I can do them all day with less error vs T88-1

Andy, give T88-1 (without target sponge) a try Big smile. It's only $9 from eacheng. Black is harder and spinnier... I've stuck with it for about 2 years now (pretty good for an EJ LOL)




Edited by dual700 - 10/23/2014 at 2:05am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bluehorseshoe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/23/2014 at 2:59am
Dual, how can I tell if my T88-I is target sponge or not? I recall ordering non target based on a review I read, but ordered it off eBay so who knows what I received. I actually have a brand new sheet (and an XZQ) I may revisit based on your review. I'm sure I don't loop as hard as you though.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dual700 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/23/2014 at 10:45am
Originally posted by bluehorseshoe bluehorseshoe wrote:

Dual, how can I tell if my T88-I is target sponge or not? I recall ordering non target based on a review I read, but ordered it off eBay so who knows what I received. I actually have a brand new sheet (and an XZQ) I may revisit based on your review. I'm sure I don't loop as hard as you though.

Oh, just look at the sponge on the back..

This is target sponge:

This is the very heavy T88-1...

If yours doesn't have that stamp, it should be the regular T88-1, which is much lighter.

Eacheng sells both..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vic#74 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/29/2014 at 12:03am
After all of your reviews guys decided to try this rubber. My H3 Neo prov BS got bubbled after Falco Long treatment (Angry).
So, 39, black. Viscaria. From first knocking of a ball on a rubber I knew what it will be. It got grainy (rough) topshit is only very mildly sticky - fresh rubber could lift the ball only 5 sm.
It's good for serve and short game. But everything else is a total low end chinese crap. While driving you need always do a kind of upward movement to make a ball pass the net. I hate when I need to think how to drive properly  - it should be a breathe! Feel is "DRY" - consider it opposed to speed glue feel (only feel, not speed or spin). Blocking on FH was disaster - for training process purpose I was forced to twiddle racket and block with T64 for my partner so he could make a decent number of loops. Your own loops are not bad actually but nothing outstanding, lack of feeling was annoying all the time. The only attacking thing this rubber is superb to is counterlooping close to the table off the bounce. It was very spectacular a couple of times last evening.
I treated it with Falco Long immediately after training and hope for better life. It was very reactive. In the morning I observed good dome atfer one thin layer of booster. May be  things will get better. Not a winner yet. Rubber-for-the-price. Unfortunately. Reminds me first LKT Red Diamond. H3 Neo Prov is still a class above rubber.  
I'll report back after playing with boosted rubber.       
           
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AndySmith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/29/2014 at 5:14am
Originally posted by vic#74 vic#74 wrote:

It's good for serve and short game. But everything else is a total low end chinese crap. While driving you need always do a kind of upward movement to make a ball pass the net. I hate when I need to think how to drive properly  - it should be a breathe!


Well, it just goes to show - there is no one rubber to suit everyone.

My feelings are entirely the opposite to yours. I found BD to be much, much easier to drive with than any H3 variant I've ever tried. It doesn't feel as stable when brushing as H3, but still does well. And I didn't have to change my stroke or worry about the ball arc getting over the net. I wonder what sponge hardness you were using...

For me, BD is a far more modern and well made rubber than H3N and is anything BUT "low end". Different strokes for different folks, I guess.
This was a great signature until I realised it was overrated.
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ZApenholder View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ZApenholder Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/29/2014 at 6:56am
I agree that no rubber is for everyone or every style

As much as I like the BD, the 39 Deg option is actually too soft for my forehand.
The drive/top spin is decent, but I actually want it to be 3 to 5 degrees harder (the 39 feels like a 36 - T05 hardness)
I doubt the 40 Deg one will be suitable for me too

But as it stands, block with the 39 Deg BD is much easier than H3N or H3. So this is a place where I was wondering what went wrong with Vic's experience on the same rubber.

Interesting indeed
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vic#74 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vic#74 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/29/2014 at 7:08am
May be it's a rubber for an all wood blades. Who knows...may be booster will do the job....
ITC Premier XR
Nittaku Sieger Pk50
Tibhar Evolution EL-S
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