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Bty Zhang Jike Szlc or Mizutani Szlc

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Luca abbatiello View Drop Down
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    Posted: 10/04/2014 at 8:28am
Hi,
I loved Bty Viscaria. Actually, I play with Nittaku Acoustic, but a defect for me is the sweet spot not large. Which Szlc blade is more balanced and less extreme?
I would like a blade with a bit of control in block more than acoustic, but not too fast.
Any suggestions?
Luca
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote High_Arc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/04/2014 at 2:36pm
Originally posted by Luca abbatiello Luca abbatiello wrote:

Hi,
I loved Bty Viscaria. Actually, I play with Nittaku Acoustic, but a defect for me is the sweet spot not large. Which Szlc blade is more balanced and less extreme?
I would like a blade with a bit of control in block more than acoustic, but not too fast.
Any suggestions?


Hi Luca,
it is much safer to simply go for the Viscaria then for either the ZJ SZLC or the MJ SZLC (the Viscaria doesn't have a notably smaller sweet spot).
The MJ SZLC simply put is a faster version or the regular MJ, with a slightly (but notably) larger sweet spot then the original MJ. It is a blade that is very demanding in the short game and IMO quite controlled and even forgiving in the open game (for an offensive composite blade). It is certainly an extreme(ly good) blade.
The ZJ SZLC (I have only played with a borrowed blade for an hour or so) is closer to a Viscaria, but harder and stiffer and with notably lower throw. Close to the table it is very effective, but further away the low throw and the stiffness don't really help. Further away, it's sometimes difficult to get the throw to play the ball safely on the other side of the table. Additionally, as strange as this may sound, it is difficult to generate sufficient power further away from the table.
Summarizing, I would again advice to go for the Viscaria. The Viscaria is more balanced and less extreme. Only exception would be if you have a really good touch, then you might consider buying the MJ SZLC without testing. The MJ SZLC is the blade that I enjoy playing with most and i play really well with it, but in tight situations for me a Viscaria is much more reliable.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote liulin04 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/04/2014 at 2:57pm
I would recommend Mizutani SZLC also.  +1 for High-Arc, he pretty much sums it up. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote *_strataras_* Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/05/2014 at 5:15am
I would recommend to go for a viscaria my friend.You will not find control such as Acoustic has, in Zhang Jike Superzlc neither in Jun Mizutani Superzlc.Viscaria is faster than acoustic and i has more or less the same control in my opinion.But you will have a stiffer blade with more soft feeling!Go for a viscaria and don't think about it more Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mickael Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/05/2014 at 6:07am
I owned the four of these for four seasons each. The acoustic is a great looping blade but not as everybody thinks the control over the table is the worst. You cannot block and on touch shots the ball simply dies into the net when you needed it plus it is very sensitive to incoming spin.the viscaria is great in everything but lacks in blocks. The Zjk szlc is better than the viscaria in blocking but acts strange from behind. The mizutani szlc solves all the above problems of the other blades it is very good in serves and blocking , it is a looping monster from all distances. The only thing is that if you misread the incoming service of your opponent it does not forgive you at all.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote *_strataras_* Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/05/2014 at 6:36am
I don't agree with mickael at all, but everyone can say his opinion and experience.It is very weird when you say that 2 OFF+ blades have better control in blocking than an OFF blade.But ok, I accept that it is only mickael's opinion.If someone else has tried viscaria and the 2 superzlc blades, please share your experience.

Edited by *_strataras_* - 10/05/2014 at 6:38am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote DreiZ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/05/2014 at 8:59am
Originally posted by *_strataras_* *_strataras_* wrote:

I don't agree with mickael at all, but everyone can say his opinion and experience.It is very weird when you say that 2 OFF+ blades have better control in blocking than an OFF blade.But ok, I accept that it is only mickael's opinion.If someone else has tried viscaria and the 2 superzlc blades, please share your experience.


The trend is faster + stiffer composite blades have a much more consistent blocking ability than flexy all wood blades, i.e. most blocks are the same and do not require much adjustment in the wrist. I think that is what mickael implied.

Sometimes people mistake that for control and say "the blade has great control because I can block with it well"... but control usually comes from the feeling of the ball sitting on the paddle while looping or hitting due to natural flex of some blades.

Edited by DreiZ - 10/05/2014 at 9:02am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote *_strataras_* Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/05/2014 at 11:27am
Originally posted by DreiZ DreiZ wrote:

The trend is faster + stiffer composite blades have a much more consistent blocking ability than flexy all wood blades, i.e. most blocks are the same and do not require much adjustment in the wrist.
I totally agree with you my friend Dreiz, but I was refering to viscaria vs the other two superzlc's.And I think that viscaria has way better control in blocking than the superzlc's.Do you agree DreiZ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DreiZ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/05/2014 at 11:40am
Originally posted by *_strataras_* *_strataras_* wrote:

Originally posted by DreiZ DreiZ wrote:

The trend is faster + stiffer composite blades have a much more consistent blocking ability than flexy all wood blades, i.e. most blocks are the same and do not require much adjustment in the wrist.

I totally agree with you my friend Dreiz, but I was refering to viscaria vs the other two superzlc's.And I think that viscaria has way better control in blocking than the superzlc's.Do you agree DreiZ?


Cant really say because I don't have any experience with any of the 3 blades... But both are nice composite blades so I think in controlled blocking there would be a small difference but very very slight and hardly noticeable. I would have to guess that the ball might rebound slightly faster from SuperZLC blades due to its stiff construction. I think the rubber would play more of a role in blocking difference than the blade between these two.

I can definitely say that ALC blades are superb for controlled blocking based on my experience with TB ALC.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote *_strataras_* Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/05/2014 at 12:09pm
Friend, TB ALC is so close in viscaria's gaming style.They are almost the same!What I am trying to say is...when you hit a block, ofcourse you will be helped with a stiff blade in order to be the move more effective, but the shot must be ON the table and not out!So in this particular example it would be help viscaria which is a nearly stiff blade but not too fast in speed!With a stiff OFF+ super zlc, you will have a good block but too fast!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kurokami Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/05/2014 at 12:25pm
@strataras i found ZJK SZLC easier to block with than Viscaria. viscaria has a dampened feel but it's still quite fast. TB ALC is probably the easiest of the above to block with. (yea i agree with you. acoustic is very similar to TB ALC in blocking, just more woody, and was the most popular men's blade in jp prior to TB ALC - who play a very touch-oriented game.)

@OP both SZLC are way faster than acoustic. a bit faster, but similar = TB ALC. not sure why you're considering the others. sweet spot on acoustic shouldn't be a prob. i usually hit within same 2cm radius-area but i felt acoustic had awesome catch in looping - the best, even more than IF ZLC. also, you could simply go to acoustic carbon but my personal pick would be TB ALC - very similar to acoustic with A/C if you prefer the composite feel for blocking.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote assiduous Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/05/2014 at 12:28pm
ZJK SZLC, Viscaria, TB ALC, MJ SZLC.. arguments for control are worthless because all of them have exceptional control and the differences are not worth noting. Especially if close to mid distance. If you get far, the SZLC will make it easier to land the ball.

While they are all stiff blades, to me the SZLC makes the blades actually kind of softish. Have not used JM SZLC, but with ZJK SZLC opening loop was a little easier than TB ALC. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Luca abbatiello Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/05/2014 at 2:16pm
ok. Which Butterfly/Nittaku blade is better in active or passive Block?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote *_strataras_* Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/05/2014 at 2:33pm
@kurokami I don't think that the blocking with TB ALC is the same with an acoustic...With the acoustic, you hit a block and your hand is shaking from the vibrations...
I agree with you that it is very commonly used by many players from different classes...from the amatures, to the pros!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mickael Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/05/2014 at 4:43pm
Since it has become a blocking issue, let me remind you of the shlager carbon 10 years ago " of the stinging blocks " and shlager demonstrate it quite well years ago! Now the less sensitive is the blade it is better in blocking and punching. That is why acoustic is the worst followed by viscaria and so on. And if you think that with jm szlc your blocks may go off the table,with the acoustic you will block your opponent to give him back a high ball like donuts gift ready to be eaten:)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote *_strataras_* Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/05/2014 at 4:59pm
All we do is just talking!You and me and everybody, don't know which blade will work on each player's hand!We are talking only on blades's characteristics!And don't forget Schlager always plays with primorac and not the sch;ager carbon.And we are talking about us...the common players...not about 
schlager...a pro!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Luca abbatiello Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/05/2014 at 5:14pm
Amultart is nice to block?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote *_strataras_* Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/05/2014 at 5:27pm
Yes it is great in blocking, but it is too fast...It is more for a different kind of playing, like aggresive offences, but also controlable offenses.I really love this blade...for me it is like it has gears.Don't forget to mention that it is really great in receiving serves, due the fact it is off+.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Luca abbatiello Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/05/2014 at 5:55pm
Amultart is off+. It's very fast. Low dwell time. But it's good to blocking (!) and to receive opponent serve(!!)??
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote illinichamps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/05/2014 at 6:43pm
I have used the TB ALC for the last 6 to 8 months and just bought the jm szlc.. gotta say with my playing style blocking is easier with the jm szlc. First it has a slightly bigger head (as usually i am returning hard smashes or fast loops) it helps to have a big head. I usually defend well and return smashes often, but when i blocked 4 or 5 continuous smashes my partner just put his tongue out and gave up. Needless to say my t alc will be my backup now. Thoroughly happy with the jm szlc and if u dont mind the cost go for it. U wont regret it. I am also thinking of buying some old viscarias.. just to compare. Want to see what all the fuss is all about.. what is so good about the old viscarias and what is so different feom the new ones?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kurokami Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/05/2014 at 10:54pm
Originally posted by *_strataras_* *_strataras_* wrote:

@kurokami I don't think that the blocking with TB ALC is the same with an acoustic...With the acoustic, you hit a block and your hand is shaking from the vibrations...
I agree with you that it is very commonly used by many players from different classes...from the amatures, to the pros!

the wood vibration offers better control in feeling the contact pt and its pressure. some of the world's top pros including wang hao advise using all-wood for that reason. but it's not going to affect the blade performance. among these three incl SZLC's, TB ALC is closest to acoustic. 


Edited by kurokami - 10/05/2014 at 11:19pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote *_strataras_* Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/06/2014 at 1:43am
Huge vibrations will not effect blades performance??So blocking with huge vibrations is better than blocking with a stiff blade...ok all these I said it is my opinion and everyone has the right to has his opinion so...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote *_strataras_* Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/06/2014 at 1:50am
Originally posted by Luca abbatiello Luca abbatiello wrote:

Amultart is off+. It's very fast. Low dwell time. But it's good to blocking (!) and to receive opponent serve(!!)??

What is the thing that you didn't understand and you need help?From all the OFF+ blades I have ever used, it is the best for receiving the opponent's serve.To explain you even more clear, I have great receiving the opponent's serve with amultart among all OFF+ blades.And about the blocking concerns, YES my friend, if you are a skilled player you can block very nice with this blade, but you need skills to achieve that.If you find weird what I've said, you can ask someone who owns an amultart and tells you.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Luca abbatiello Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/06/2014 at 3:37am
Sorry. But it's strange to  me that a extreme blade as Amultart controls better then Acoustic. I played Viscaria and now I play with Acoustic. And I am sure that control in general is better because Acoustic is slightly slower than Viscaria. And Viscaria is more slow than Amultart. It seems strange to me. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote AndySmith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/06/2014 at 3:50am
Originally posted by Luca abbatiello Luca abbatiello wrote:

Sorry. But it's strange to  me that a extreme blade as Amultart controls better then Acoustic. I played Viscaria and now I play with Acoustic. And I am sure that control in general is better because Acoustic is slightly slower than Viscaria. And Viscaria is more slow than Amultart. It seems strange to me. 


Everyone has their own personal definition of what "control" means, so you sometimes get no consensus on this kind of thing.

For example, when looping I get that "can't miss" feel with the Acoustic, but I find blocking to be much easier and more accurate with the Boll ALC. If I had to use the term "control" (spit), I'd probably have to say that they both offer better control in different aspects of the game. Personally, I try to avoid using the term "control" these days because it means different things to different people.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Luca abbatiello Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/06/2014 at 4:18am
I do not agree. If for the first time I try an Amultart, I can feel the difference in control compared to a Viscaria: first topspin comes out of Two meters! 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote AndySmith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/06/2014 at 4:24am
Originally posted by Luca abbatiello Luca abbatiello wrote:

I do not agree. If for the first time I try an Amultart, I can feel the difference in control compared to a Viscaria: first topspin comes out of Two meters! 


That's the speed of the blade. Is control just the opposite of speed to you?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Luca abbatiello Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/06/2014 at 4:33am
The ability of producers is not to create too much difference speed/control. If I increase the Speed, I decrease control in general. The technological development (or marketing development!!!!!!!) improves this relationship, but we cannot do miracles. A more slow blade should be more control...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AndySmith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/06/2014 at 4:40am
Originally posted by Luca abbatiello Luca abbatiello wrote:

The ability of producers is not to create too much difference speed/control. If I increase the Speed, I decrease control in general. The technological development (or marketing development!!!!!!!) improves this relationship, but we cannot do miracles. A more slow blade should be more control...


OK, that's a reasonable description. I think a lot of people would agree with that. Unfortunately, not everyone will. I know some forum users who think that the Boll ZLC is the ultimate in control, despite it being one of the fastest blades on the market.

I don't want to derail your thread - just be aware that many people have different ideas of what "control" means, and you should factor that in when reading the replies.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Luca abbatiello Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/06/2014 at 4:49am
Ok. then I rephrase the request. I need a blade that I guarantee a very good block, good power from the middle distance, and good spin in loop. 
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