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Serving Improvement Continues

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    Posted: 10/05/2014 at 12:18am
My first thread on serving is here 



It spoke not so much about serving per se, but how serving practice improved my timing and ball feel.  Now, I would like to focus on serving.  This will be in three parts.  

Motivation - why work on serves
Stories - my learning sequence
References - outside sources that have been particularly helpful

There will be the first three posts of this thread.

Now, before reading this, do realize that I am not a particularly good or consistent server.  I do not win a lot of points on service in matches,  and like I said in my previous post, I learn serves mostly because I want to see what people are doing when I try to return them - it's hard for me to watch people when I don't know what I am looking for.  I do have a basic serve game built around my backhand serves, but I don't carry it into a match and execute it systematically.  So I would invite people with good serves to contribute so that I can think of more things to try and others can as well.

On the other hand, people who watch me practice, including my coach, have said that my serves are markedly improved.  About 3 - 4 months ago, I worked on building a no-spin, heavy spin combination using different serving points on the racket and this allowed me to get free points off players who could not read the difference between my serves.  Now, in a club, this is a big deal.  Usually, as Larry Hodges pointed out, most players who just play in a club don't work on their serves because most of the advantage is lost as people's subconscious just lock into what you are doing.  Many good servers who mostly win with difficult to return serves want to maintain their advantage won't play an opponent everyday for this reason - they may take breaks off playing you or coming to the club so you forget how to subconsciously return their serves and come back and play you later.  

On the other hand, tournament players often do work on serves because they know that people seeing their serves for the first time struggle just because of the unfamiliarity and having new tricks to get easy points or third ball opportunities is important when every advantage counts if you are playing someone you usually play.  It's fun to see how someone who hasn't seen my new serve in the club fumbles just because he never knew I could do that...  Also, serves can reduce your effort when you are playing lower rated players.  Knowing the kinds of serves lower rated players misread and incorporating them into your game lets you get free or easy points.

TO BE CONTINUED
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1. Larry Hodges has a great blog at his website, tabletenniscoaching.com.

His tip of the week on August 11, 2014 has all his service tips linked to it and is pretty comprehensive for all aspects of a serve.


2.  Greg Letts, when he ran the about.com table tennis section, had lots of great articles on serving.  He also has videos on the forehand pendulum serve for backspin, sidespin and topspin and a video/blog about the time he spent developing a new serve.  The last bit if you can get through it gives you an insight into how long it took a good player to learn a new complex serve and get it to a high level.  I can't find the link to the last bit.

Greg's experience trying to learn/build a new high-level serve.  It's instructive because when we see the end product (of anything in table tennis), we don't realize the growth trajectory that got that stroke there.

http://tabletennis.about.com/od/howtoserve/a/learn_a_serve.htm

Theoretical advice on how to improve your serve.


Practical advice on how to improve your serve.


Trouble shooting your serve.


A lot of the technical insights are similar.


3.  A very insightful video comes from the Pathfinder Pro - 9 thought processes for a table tennis serve.  It's something Larry Hodges discusses, but it is a great video to help people realize why serving backspin all the time is not a good idea unless you are a looper (or possibly a chopper).  There are 4 videos in the series.





4.  Books.

There is an e-book by Richard McAfee on serving.  I haven't read it, but I suspect it is a compilation of the chapters on serving from Table Tennis: Steps to Success, which has some good advice on serving ( for a book) as well as explanations and drills.  Both can be found on Amazon.com.

Danny Seemiller and Mark Holowchak's Winning at Table Tennis is the first book where I explicitly read the suggestion that to be a good serve returner, it helps to learn a variety of serves.  I know at least one player who disagrees, but I can say that this advice helped me, as it gave me first hand insight into many of the misconceptions that were affecting my service return.  There is some serving advice in it as well as some serves to learn.

5. Videos

Brian Pace has a Serve and Serve Return DVD that goes through how to do certain serves.  While Brian explains how the serves work and the DVD is generally excellent, Brian totally misses a huge part of how a learner would get the most out of a video like this - it would have been nice to see how a serve evolved from what it was to what it became so that one can get better serving and understand the steps required to build a good serve.  Most of Brian's serves are either finished products or his attempt to mimic a serve that he doesn't use.  The drills are great, the spin insights are helpful and the return sections help understand the serves better, though some of them don't get to the heart of explaining what troubles people (he doesn't talk about handing heavy spin or what to try when you can't read the spin or how to add super deception).  I recommend the DVD, but the gap in not showing how a serve evolves is a missing gap that I hope someone will try to fill along the lines of what Greg Letts tried to do a higher level with his series of blogs/videos on the dual motion pendulum/reverse pendulum serve.

Again, I strongly recommend this DVD - I just think it could have been so much better if it addressed some of the things I mentioned.

TO BE CONTINUED


Edited by NextLevel - 10/06/2014 at 7:47am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cole_ely Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/05/2014 at 12:27am
I often go into semi serious but non-sanctioned matches against players I might see later with an abridged service routine.  I figure it's better practice for me to try to win in other ways.

But then when I do play for points, I don't feel as comfortable with the big serves, or as used to the returns that do come back.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/05/2014 at 9:21am
Originally posted by cole_ely cole_ely wrote:

I often go into semi serious but non-sanctioned matches against players I might see later with an abridged service routine.  I figure it's better practice for me to try to win in other ways.

But then when I do play for points, I don't feel as comfortable with the big serves, or as used to the returns that do come back.


Your experience is typical.  I really think it's a product of practice time limitations.  I don't have a practice partner for drills so I spend more time serving, but if I did have a partner, I might work on a few other things.  One of the problems with serving is that you need to have an idea and a response for typical returns - I learned that the hard way by using "tricky" serves which I hadn't practiced against people regularly in tournaments and saw how unprepared I was to attack the return, something that didn't happen against my backhand serves which I had been drilling since I started playing - for those, even if I got a return I couldn't attack, I usually knew how to push it and annoy my opponent.

That said, having a fast long serve is good to practice because it opens up your whole service game if you can make it look like another of your serves.  I think the three patterns below are helpful for people who don't have tricky serves per se because they make people hesitate.  And hesitation is the key to tournament table tennis.

1) Serve long and deep and then serve extremely short to the same end of the table away from the opponent (short forehand assuming the opponent camps out on the backhand end and receives all serves with his forehand) with a very similar motion.  This combo will usually at least break even in a match because the opponent will be late to at least one of these balls, especially if the long serve is an early surprise.  You need to be able to do it to both sides because of left handers, but obviously, the side for right handers is more rewarding in the short term.

2) serving to the short forehand and the deep backhand.  I know a lefty whose serve strategy was designed entirely around this.  I think that if he ever combined this strategy with (1), it would make his serves better.  Unfortunately, he hasn't revisited his strategy since he was 1700 two years ago and he is still 1700 two years later (he is only 15).

3) Have a deep dead serve to both corners and to the middle of the table.  Fast dead serves, which I have used since I was 1400 after stumbling onto one entirely by accident, have an amazing ability to confuse players who have never dealt with them - most people see the pace, think topspin, block the ball, and get surprised that it goes into the net.  They then do a topspin counter and put it in the net again.  Then they think it is backspin and loop the ball off the table.  Only those trained in looping/attacking a no spin ball or in generating spin use the right stroke to cause problems - most people will get it softly over the net and let you tee off on it.  I thought my days of bewildering people with them were over (at least not more than 1 or 2 points in a match), but then I got an 1800 player in a league who I beat only because I switched to using this serve almost exclusively after being down 2-1.  After the match, he was so impressed that he asked me what was on it and I said "nothing".

And as my other thread pointed out, doing work on serves rewards your touch/control/serve reads etc. so just practicing serves as long as it is done correctly can be rewarding, even if you don't know the usual returns.  I also remember a player who I had trouble with for a long time (he coached at a club where I play tournaments) and I saw a lower rated player than myself playing him and giving him trouble with serves that I once had but had gone away from using.  Needless to say, I brought those serves back into my arsenal the two times when I next played him and got good results.  If you can at least create the basic spins and locations, you can mimic serve strategies that may just help you with specific matches.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/06/2014 at 4:16am
This is the link to Greg Letts' article, that NextLevel referred to above,  in which Greg tells about his experience and timespan of learning a new service.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/06/2014 at 7:42am
Originally posted by Hopper Hopper wrote:

This is the link to Greg Letts' article, that NextLevel referred to above,  in which Greg tells about his experience and timespan of learning a new service.
 


Thanks a million, Hopper - added to the list and will build this out some more tonight. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BRS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/06/2014 at 10:41am
Maybe you could elaborate on what you mean by "...just practicing serves as long as it is done correctly can be rewarding..." 

Recently I played a guy I hadn't seen in a few months, and he was hitting a reverse tomahawk serve.  (meaning he hit the BH side, away from his head)  He said he'd been fooling with it for about three weeks.  It was already a vicious serve and he didn't even have the normal tomahawk yet, hadn't tried it.  Wait until he has both.  It boggled my mind.  I could practice that serve daily for a year and not make any headway at all.  Is he practicing correctly and I'm not?   That would be nicer to hear than him just having talent and me having none. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ZingyDNA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/06/2014 at 10:53am
Originally posted by cole_ely cole_ely wrote:

I often go into semi serious but non-sanctioned matches against players I might see later with an abridged service routine.  I figure it's better practice for me to try to win in other ways.

But then when I do play for points, I don't feel as comfortable with the big serves, or as used to the returns that do come back.


Are you saying you don't use certain serves to save them for important matches?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/06/2014 at 12:38pm
Originally posted by BRS BRS wrote:

Maybe you could elaborate on what you mean by "...just practicing serves as long as it is done correctly can be rewarding..." 

Recently I played a guy I hadn't seen in a few months, and he was hitting a reverse tomahawk serve.  (meaning he hit the BH side, away from his head)  He said he'd been fooling with it for about three weeks.  It was already a vicious serve and he didn't even have the normal tomahawk yet, hadn't tried it.  Wait until he has both.  It boggled my mind.  I could practice that serve daily for a year and not make any headway at all.  Is he practicing correctly and I'm not?   That would be nicer to hear than him just having talent and me having none. 
 
Many serves *look* impressive, but unless you are playing someone who has a mental/physical/experience problem with creating the angle or doing the motion to return your serve, they serve is just that - impressive looking.  A serve can be a higher level than the people who face it in terms of sheer spin, but over time, as you face heavier and spinnier loops, you will be able to get the ball back on the table and the question of how the server follows up his serve is posed back to the server.  A backhand tomahawk is a regular pendulum sidespin.  If you can return that, you can return the backhand tomahawk as long as you can read it.  Sometimes, you also can't appreciate how high a serve is until you face a player who is repeatedly killing it.  IF the backhand tomahawk, is low, can be served short or long and is hard to attack, then kudos to the guy.  He now has a serve he can keep for the long term while working on other things in his game.
 
What is more important with a serve is either
1) keeping it low so it can't be driven over the net either with backspin or topspin
2) making people think that it is something other than what it is, or
3) if it is what it is, they just have to respect it because what it is isn't something that can handle trivially because of either the quality of the placement or how you play behind it. 
 
Very often, I can serve my backhand underspin serve to a player and get a net return on the first serve if they haven't played me before.  Not as much spin on it on that sidespin serve, but it doesn't look that heavy.  In fact, sometimes, the reason why a better player can miss a lower player's serve initially is that they are misreading the amount of spin that they think the player may or may not be generating based on the quality of serves they are used to seeing.  Of course, they do adjust if they are sufficiently better.
 
Check out the video from Brett Clarke on how to develop a backspin serve - the video is humorous but it's the first video I have actually seen that tries to explain the process of developing a good serve from being a zero to being a hero.  Then read Larry Hodges on practicing serves the right way.  Ping Skills actually demonstrate this in their service practice video.  One of the things that I got from Richard McAfee in Table Tennis: Steps to Success that was helpful was that serve practice is not the time to practice the same old serve and wonder when it will become a higher level serve.  Serve practice is the time to take your serve and challenge it - with placement drills, spin generation drills (both as much and as little as possible while controlling it and keeping it similar looking) etc.
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