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is it confirmed chinese players boost rubbers? |
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panany
Super Member Joined: 04/22/2010 Location: France Status: Offline Points: 234 |
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now nobody use dianshi.....
chinese in national tam use : haifu, lidu or kailin :) i talk with zhou yu by my friend few days ago he use haifu for forehand and kailin for backhand :)
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jackwong23
Gold Member Joined: 08/14/2008 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 1912 |
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The Hugarian players invented and used the speed glue, but that was before the glue ban imposed by the ittf, so that was very legal and not cheating . On The other hand, as of September 2017, the Chinese are now still using the speed glue / boosters despite the glue ban imposed by the ittf in around 2006. Now that is cheating, Can you see the difference ? Edited by jackwong23 - 09/13/2017 at 9:50am |
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panany
Super Member Joined: 04/22/2010 Location: France Status: Offline Points: 234 |
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now all professional chinese player use booster .... but if not professional yes all use yet speed glue haha
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HuLimei
Super Member Joined: 07/10/2017 Location: BTY Factory Status: Offline Points: 276 |
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Chinese players win ONLY BECAUSE they boost (not because of training and work ethic) |
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panany
Super Member Joined: 04/22/2010 Location: France Status: Offline Points: 234 |
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HAHA
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panany
Super Member Joined: 04/22/2010 Location: France Status: Offline Points: 234 |
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now most player of national team chinese use haifu yellow ...
and most of prov player use kailin :)
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Fulanodetal
Gold Member Joined: 06/28/2013 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 1226 |
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jackwong:
"Now that is cheating, Can you see the difference ?" PLEASE RE-READ THE VERY LAST SENTENCE of my post. I think you missed it. FdT
Edited by Fulanodetal - 09/13/2017 at 10:21am |
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penholderxxx
Super Member Joined: 09/19/2016 Location: Asia Status: Offline Points: 451 |
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'The mods should lock this thread or this man!' - ashihshamaalt
Whatever for......he did not do anything wrong. In fact, I feel his views and contributions are substantive and coherent. If you disagree with his views, slug it out. This is what a forum is meant for; we can have and should allow robust debates; unless as pointed out, views expressed are out of topic. penholderxxx
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Iloveplayingtabletennis
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ashishsharmaait
Silver Member Joined: 02/27/2013 Location: India Status: Offline Points: 914 |
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Using atrociously large fonts? ...And spamming a thread. He could have posted all of this in a single thread. |
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ashishsharmaait
Silver Member Joined: 02/27/2013 Location: India Status: Offline Points: 914 |
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I would like to add a few things to this post.
I think that Chinese players get most of the criticism for boosting because they do most of the winning. Having interacted with a lot of players at high club levels in India, China and Germany, I can tell you that most of the lot boosts in competitions. ...And most of them don't complain about others boosting. That's how professionals are. I have often asked them as to why they boost...And surprisingly the answer is that they like the feeling (lightness is the term a player used) after boosting. For a professional who spends a lot of years practicing, having equipment which feels exactly the way they want it to is very important...For hobby players, not so much. Now let's talk about cost....TT events never have a big purse. For example, a state level event which has WR top 150 players participating has the winners prize of close to 500 USD in India. Not more than 2-3 players out of a field of 300+ are sponsored. How do you expect them to pay for a pair of $70 Tenergy? They use old sheets, use H3N, use whatever they can to do the best they can. As long as the top rubbers cost a lot, boosting will always be used to equalize the field. Heck that is the reason I started boosting my H3N. I played 6 days a week and 3 hours a day, and even though I am a hobby player (I play around 2200), I went through a sheet of Tenergy in 1 month on the FH. That's a lot of money in India. With H3N, I could go for 2 months with a $10 sheet. In some places where people don't make a lot of money, it matters. Edited by ashishsharmaait - 09/13/2017 at 11:19am |
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Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14336 |
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I very strongly disagree with this. There are no words for how much I disagree with this. |
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Fulanodetal
Gold Member Joined: 06/28/2013 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 1226 |
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HuLimei: "Chinese players win ONLY BECAUSE they boost (not because of training and work ethic)"
BAAL: "I very strongly disagree with this. There are no words for how much I disagree with this." Baal, I think that was sarcasm. FdT
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HuLimei
Super Member Joined: 07/10/2017 Location: BTY Factory Status: Offline Points: 276 |
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hehehe
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bard romance
Gold Member Joined: 02/18/2016 Location: FL Status: Offline Points: 1185 |
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This user HuLimei likes to use logical fallacies and inane polarized statements in lame attempts to push his opinions, rather than critically thought through arguments. Just FYI. |
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HuLimei
Super Member Joined: 07/10/2017 Location: BTY Factory Status: Offline Points: 276 |
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rocketman222
Gold Member Joined: 01/06/2007 Location: Walnut Creek,CA Status: Offline Points: 1152 |
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+1, boosters are a great equalizers, and yes not everyone makes enough money to afford tenergy, that is the beauty of the entire thing, imho boosting is only bad when you can't do it right |
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ashishsharmaait
Silver Member Joined: 02/27/2013 Location: India Status: Offline Points: 914 |
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Read more on cost of TT rubbers here.
https://www.indiaforsports.com/campaign/pooja-sahasrabudhe |
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bbkon
Premier Member Joined: 04/19/2005 Location: Afghanistan Status: Offline Points: 7260 |
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top players boost as early as 14 yo. they carry a small metal bottle with booster in their bags..there are boosters for several brands, i know booster from donic butterfly stiga nittaku but they are not sold some players will sell you secretly even some coaches make their own boosters . i know a guy who got a tenergy from muramatsu and the smell is so strongly chemical |
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Baal
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I still very strongly disagree. They are better because they start younger, train harder with the best coaches, the best infrastructure, and most importantly, constant exposure to the highest level of competition anywhere on the planet. If there was no Hurricane and no boosting, they would still be the best. But Japan is coming up. Will be interesting soon. |
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Baal
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The user HuLimei is on my radar. |
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berndt_mann
Gold Member Joined: 02/02/2015 Location: Tucson, Arizona Status: Offline Points: 1719 |
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(Baal) They are better because they start younger, train harder with the best
coaches, the best infrastructure, and most importantly, constant
exposure to the highest level of competition anywhere on the planet. If
there was no Hurricane and no boosting, they would still be the best.
Then why would the players on the Chinese National Team feel the need to contravene ITTF regulations regarding boosting, if in your considered opinion (as an authority on international table tennis or as an authority on the properties of boosting oils from a scientific standpoint) they would not need to use a rubber such as Hurricane and would certainly not need to augment its properties further by boosting oils, resort to nevertheless using boosting oils if "they would still be the best" against other national teams who use them? At any rate, your statement is hypothetical and moot, since the sources I have cited agree that all or virtually all of the world's top players use boosting oils. In your considered opinion as a scientist, is their any reason from a scientific standpoint that you can think of that explains why they do this? |
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bmann1942
Setup: Mark Bellamy Master Craftsman blade, British Leyland hard rubber |
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tom
Premier Member Joined: 11/18/2013 Location: canada Status: Offline Points: 3016 |
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and I thought you did not have a sense of humour
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Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14336 |
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My explanation is not scientific. It is more sociological. I suspect nobody accepts the reasons given by Sharara for the booster rule (he once claimed it was for health reasons). Also, it is impossible to detect them without also detecting other ingredients normally present in rubber. Look, I am not here to say that nobody boosts. I think nearly every pro boosts and if they don't it is simply because (like me) they don't like the effect.
It just does not affect my enjoyment of the game. I honestly don't care. I also do not care if my opponent boosts. |
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berndt_mann
Gold Member Joined: 02/02/2015 Location: Tucson, Arizona Status: Offline Points: 1719 |
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Would "the game", that is, the sport of table tennis as played at the world class level, be any less enjoyable for you if none of the top players played with unboosted or factory boosted/player boosted rubbers? And if boosting a rubber, already factory boosted or not, has no significant effect on the amount of spin and speed that rubber can impart, why do you suppose that "nearly every pro boosts" if they in fact gain no advantage with respect to increased speed and increased spin when using boosted rubbers with the help of the various kinds of boosting oils now available? This is and has been an illegal practice since speed gluing, once legal, was banned and boosting as a substitute took its place. Could it be because both they and the ITTF know that since it is presently impossible to detect the presence of non-VOC based boosters by current devices that they feel that they can get away with boosting because unless they are actually caught in the act of using a boosting oil they can use boosters with impunity without a risk of getting caught? A hell of a way to run the ITTF railroad and a reflection of the stupidity of the ITTF in letting this situation to occur and a reflection of the lack of integrity on the part of the world's present best players in their nearly universal practice of using boosting oils despite the ITTF's inability to enforce the very regulations they have instituted. Whether you agree or disagree with the ITTF's regulation regarding the use of illegal boosters, it remains an ITTF rule and if a player, detectable or not, violates that rule in an ITTF sanctioned tournament by nevertheless using a boosting oil that player, caught or not caught, is a cheater and does the sport of table tennis no honor. |
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bmann1942
Setup: Mark Bellamy Master Craftsman blade, British Leyland hard rubber |
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ttTurkey
Silver Member Joined: 09/07/2010 Status: Offline Points: 516 |
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This is the part where I reach into my cupboard for a really small violin. This happens in so many sports; the top players play to what is enforced in practice by the match officials on the day, not what is printed in the rulebook (which they may or may not be totally familiar with in many cases). The net effect is zero, because players are neither advantaged nor disadvantaged. A few examples would be the table tennis service rule, the time that tennis players take between points, tennis players taking injury timeouts when not injured (like Fed at the Aus Open this year) and the basketball travelling rule. |
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Olio
Super Member Joined: 03/27/2012 Location: UK / France Status: Offline Points: 237 |
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Coming back to the original question...
It is difficult to formally prove such a broad statement. However, all the pros I know boost. And all the good Chinese players I know (very good players, but not even pros) boost. I know (and you know) what some of them use, but that does not make a big difference. I even doubt that TB and MJ are not boosting. I think they get their treated rubbers straight from BTY (which would then be legal), but that's just me assuming.
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penholderxxx
Super Member Joined: 09/19/2016 Location: Asia Status: Offline Points: 451 |
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berndt_mann wrote:
A hell of a way to run the ITTF railroad and a reflection of the stupidity of the ITTF in letting this situation to occur and a reflection of the lack of integrity on the part of the world's present best players in their nearly universal practice of using boosting oils despite the ITTF's inability to enforce the very regulations they have instituted. Whether you agree or disagree with the ITTF's regulation regarding the use of illegal boosters, it remains an ITTF rule and if a player, detectable or not, violates that rule in an ITTF sanctioned tournament by nevertheless using a boosting oil that player, caught or not caught, is a cheater and does the sport of table tennis no honor. I would have agreed totally with this but for the point that; specifically for the CNT, the culprits are not the players but the administrators and coaches. If these rascals () do not condone or allow boosting, I do not think any players would dare do it. I think their mentality is if they will not be caught or sanctioned, then its ok; regardless if boosting is illegal or cheating.......cheating, yes; no honour, yes I agree ( but not THEM),but not the players, its the managers and coaches. By extension, any other players who boost are also doing so with the connivance of the coaches; if not explicit orders penholderxxx
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Iloveplayingtabletennis
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Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14336 |
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Berndt, I honestly don't care.
I am simply not going to argue with people who dislike the sport I play and watch; especially over idiotic stuff that ITTF does, and players response to it -- since I have no control over any of it. In spite of Sharara's efforts to mess everything up, the product still amazes me, such as the ML-FZD final at the WTTC this year. I watch Chinese players closely. They are better in nearly every dimension of the game than everyone else. Right now the only European player who is close to their level is Ovtcharov. Boll and Samsonov used to be, but they are passed their sell-by date (although I still love watching them). The footwork, strength, balance, overall technique, and even tactical skills in the case of Ma Long, of Chinese players is superior. That is not a product of any one rubber or a booster oil. People who suggest that Hurricane + Booster are the sole reason they dominate make me laugh. I like jazz. I once had a roommate who thought it was very uncool of me to like it. He was into Hair Bands. I tuned him out and went back to my Coltrane albums. At some point since the lease was in my name, I threw him out. This is a website devoted to table tennis -- as it is played now. Keep it in mind. |
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Fulanodetal
Gold Member Joined: 06/28/2013 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 1226 |
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FdT
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berndt_mann
Gold Member Joined: 02/02/2015 Location: Tucson, Arizona Status: Offline Points: 1719 |
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That is a very interesting video clip, FdT. But if the RAE instrument used to detect the presence of VOCs in this particular player's rubbers cannot detect whether not the player used a boosting oil, how then can the tester determine whether or not his racket is legal, or any racket for that matter of any international player who boosts his/her racket with a boosting oil? |
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bmann1942
Setup: Mark Bellamy Master Craftsman blade, British Leyland hard rubber |
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