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Zhang Jike's Prize Money Withheld

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    Posted: 10/26/2014 at 9:19pm
Zhang Jike will not receive any of his 45,000 euro paycheck after an ITTF Jury decided he would be fined the total for his unacceptable barrier breaking celebration. Absurd? I think so. Opinions please.

http://www.mhtabletennis.com/2014/10/ittf-fine-on-zhang-jike-no-less-than.html
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hhca Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/26/2014 at 9:31pm
agree, 45,000 is too much. $5000 is proper.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/26/2014 at 9:44pm
eventhough he hasn't hurt anyone, he behaved like a freaking moron. this was just very disrespectful towards everyone. withholding the entire prize money is harsh, but understandable.


Edited by Trice - 10/26/2014 at 9:47pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote kenneyy88 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/26/2014 at 9:48pm
First kick was fine but after that he just acted like a drunkard/ destroying everything. The whole prize money is excessive, maybe a ban on some events or partial fine. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pushdeep Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/26/2014 at 9:48pm
Is this just arbitrary decision or is there a written rule how much a player can be fined?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote W0LovePP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/26/2014 at 9:49pm
ZJK needs a punishment for his behavior...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Machine_Head Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/26/2014 at 10:31pm
While I agree he needs to be punished for his unsportsmanlike behavior, fining 45k euros is an over kill. I don't understand why he was fined that much.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chongqinghotpot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/26/2014 at 10:32pm
How about banning him from the next World Cup ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/26/2014 at 10:38pm
Given ZJK's status in the sport, I think the punishment is appropriate. I wish the ITTF would crack down on ridiculous noisy post point celebrations too. Today, at a tournament, I was privy to watch a match where a teenager was repeatedly using abusive language and hand signs towards his opponent. Another player was celebrating so loudly a young spectator asked whether it was legal to cho so loudly. Some of this stuff needs to be reigned in, and $5000 (or even $45,000) is nothing to someone like ZJK. What is important is that it shows that such behavior will not be tolerated. It is more lenient than actually banning him from events, IMO.

There might be objections to the procedures used to arrive at and execute the judgement, but I fear that a lot of TT bad behavior is already being built into the culture of the sport now.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kurokami Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/26/2014 at 10:57pm
venting frustration over the plastic ball and a big "f u, no changes will stop me from being champion" kick lol jk

Edited by kurokami - 10/26/2014 at 10:57pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JacekGM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/26/2014 at 11:06pm
Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Given ZJK's status in the sport, I think the punishment is appropriate. I wish the ITTF would crack down on ridiculous noisy post point celebrations too. Today, at a tournament, I was privy to watch a match where a teenager was repeatedly using abusive language and hand signs towards his opponent. Another player was celebrating so loudly a young spectator asked whether it was legal to cho so loudly. Some of this stuff needs to be reigned in, and $5000 (or even $45,000) is nothing to someone like ZJK. What is important is that it shows that such behavior will not be tolerated. It is more lenient than actually banning him from events, IMO.

There might be objections to the procedures used to arrive at and execute the judgement, but I fear that a lot of TT bad behavior is already being built into the culture of the sport now.

Is it at all possible that ZJK has done what he has done in protest against something? And what would that be?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cheondo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/26/2014 at 11:07pm
Did any of you actually see what he did? He kicked one barrier. Then a little cheering. Then mildly kicked another, and then was quite calm. Destroyed the whole place?! Really?? I missed that part. Maybe when everyone left the stadium?

I think those of you who are judging harshly need to watch it. To me, it was nothing. 

To me, excessive cho-ing and screaming at the other opponent during a match is much more offensive than kicking a lousy, 20 euro barrier. Dima ought to be fined out of the sport.

Punishment: Clean up the stadium after everyone leaves. LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bogeyhunter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/26/2014 at 11:12pm
Just my opinion........not saying it's a right way to do it. I'd quietly send him a Thank you note + extra $5,000.

Just winning = ppl will talk about it for 2 days.
Kicking barriers = ppl talk about it for weeks.
Good or bad , TT needs this. 

IMO, ZJK planned this. From ripping the freaking shirt, the kissing the podium, the standing on the table. Kinda his signature moves after winning big tournaments. Can't wait to see him after winning next Olympic!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JacekGM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/26/2014 at 11:21pm
Originally posted by bogeyhunter bogeyhunter wrote:

Just my opinion........not saying it's a right way to do it. I'd quietly send him a Thank you note + extra $5,000.

Just winning = ppl will talk about it for 2 days.
Kicking barriers = ppl talk about it for weeks.
Good or bad , TT needs this. 

IMO, ZJK planned this. From ripping the freaking shirt, the kissing the podium, the standing on the table. Kinda his signature moves after winning big tournaments. Can't wait to see him after winning next Olympic!!!
However, one cannot exclude that XX and FZD will represent China during the next Olympic games...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/26/2014 at 11:33pm
Trashing *anything*, especially stuff that isn't yours, is not a manner of celebration that should be condoned.  Yes, rabid sports fans sometimes do it after their teams win or lose matches, but we should frown upon such behavior.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/26/2014 at 11:33pm
didn't follow the world cup finals (or semis) till just before bedtime.  what a joke!!!! another example why the ITTF sucks!!!!! the amount is very arbitrary - fines should have a standard, like speeding traffic fines - so much (or a range) for certain violations and not the amount = the prize money.  what if he lost and done the same?  would the fine be the second place prize money (just to illustrate how arbitrary it is)?  this is makes about as much sense as the (false) reasons given for the celluloid ban.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/26/2014 at 11:40pm
Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Given ZJK's status in the sport, I think the punishment is appropriate. I wish the ITTF would crack down on ridiculous noisy post point celebrations too. Today, at a tournament, I was privy to watch a match where a teenager was repeatedly using abusive language and hand signs towards his opponent. Another player was celebrating so loudly a young spectator asked whether it was legal to cho so loudly. Some of this stuff needs to be reigned in, and $5000 (or even $45,000) is nothing to someone like ZJK. What is important is that it shows that such behavior will not be tolerated. It is more lenient than actually banning him from events, IMO.

There might be objections to the procedures used to arrive at and execute the judgement, but I fear that a lot of TT bad behavior is already being built into the culture of the sport now.


Sorry, NL, I can't agree with you here. ZJK was behaving strangely.   But by the standards of fines levied in other sports for violations a lot more serious than this, a $45,000 fine is ridiculously over the top.  I think the ITTF reaction to this is as big a crime as what ZJK did.  Actually it is exactly the same thing when you think about it -- a histrionic over-reaction to something that happened in the moment.  But they have the power, so they can get away with it.  I find it pretty disturbing. They can suspend him for a few events.  But taking away all the man's money?  Very very disturbing.  I wish the players would boycott the next event in response.  Professional athletes in any of the three major sports in the US would be all over this.  I think it reflects a lack of respect of ITTF for their players (again) that they think for a second that this is appropriate.  I am not saying that he should not get some punishment, but this was not that big a deal. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/27/2014 at 12:16am
Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Given ZJK's status in the sport, I think the punishment is appropriate. I wish the ITTF would crack down on ridiculous noisy post point celebrations too. Today, at a tournament, I was privy to watch a match where a teenager was repeatedly using abusive language and hand signs towards his opponent. Another player was celebrating so loudly a young spectator asked whether it was legal to cho so loudly. Some of this stuff needs to be reigned in, and $5000 (or even $45,000) is nothing to someone like ZJK. What is important is that it shows that such behavior will not be tolerated. It is more lenient than actually banning him from events, IMO.

There might be objections to the procedures used to arrive at and execute the judgement, but I fear that a lot of TT bad behavior is already being built into the culture of the sport now.


Sorry, NL, I can't agree with you here. ZJK was behaving strangely.   But by the standards of fines levied in other sports for violations a lot more serious than this, a $45,000 fine is ridiculously over the top.  I think the ITTF reaction to this is as big a crime as what ZJK did.  Actually it is exactly the same thing when you think about it -- a histrionic over-reaction to something that happened in the moment.  But they have the power, so they can get away with it.  I find it pretty disturbing. They can suspend him for a few events.  But taking away all the man's money?  Very very disturbing.  I wish the players would boycott the next event in response.  Professional athletes in any of the three major sports in the US would be all over this.  I think it reflects a lack of respect of ITTF for their players (again) that they think for a second that this is appropriate.  I am not saying that he should not get some punishment, but this was not that big a deal. 

ZJK was behaving "strangely" - I would say that ZJK was behaving *badly*.  Badly in a public forum and saying it is okay to trash things because they are cheap in order to celebrate.

A $45,000 fine is over the top - well, what fine do you think is a deterrent to a wealthy World Champion?  What punishment do you suggest or you don't believe in the values expressed by noblesse oblige?  Suspend him a few events is fine, but may that not that place his ability to play in certain aspects of the WTTC/Olympics cycle in jeopardy?

The players will and should push back on this.  The rationale and process for the decision should be publicized.  However, I prefer an overreaction and pullback to waiting for this to blow out over a few days.  I see way too much bad behavior in our sport without sanction, whether it is throwing rackets, abusing opponents, rule bending, grunting loudly during shots or just posturing and choing in order to intimidate an opponent.  Maybe for some, this makes our sport more marketable.  Sure.


Edited by NextLevel - 10/27/2014 at 12:17am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote slevin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/27/2014 at 12:19am
I think the $45,000 fine was in the range of 'getting off lightly' to 'OK'.

I find any other scenario ridiculous.

Look, I can imagine that the cost of making one of those was miniscule. I'm a player and not a  bureaucrat, lawyer or a crony trying to retain an ITTF job. And unlike others, I don't think $45k is a small amount (no matter how much ZJK made in sponsorship money).

However, please put your ITTF management hat on (that's where you'll have to be to levy the punishment). The penalty for repeatedly kicking a sponsor's hoarding should be enormous (& after a World Cup final when the media's eyes are on you, even more so). An example should be made so that another player at another time would be completely discouraged in attempting such a thing. BTW: does DHS sponsor the CNT?

In today's day and age, in the US at least, even the freakin' UFC would have a zero tolerance policy towards this (forget the NBA, NFL & the NHL).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote shaolinTT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/27/2014 at 12:20am
Not as "strange" or "bad" as biting someone.  LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/27/2014 at 12:24am
Originally posted by slevin slevin wrote:

I think the $45,000 fine was in the range of 'getting off lightly' to 'OK'.

I find any other scenario ridiculous.

Look, I can imagine that the cost of making one of those was miniscule. I'm a player and not a  bureaucrat, lawyer or a crony trying to retain an ITTF job. And unlike others, I don't think $45k is a small amount (no matter how much ZJK made in sponsorship money).

However, please put your ITTF management hat on (that's where you'll have to be to levy the punishment). The penalty for repeatedly kicking a sponsor's hoarding should be enormous (& after a World Cup final when the media's eyes are on you, even more so). An example should be made so that another player at another time would be completely discouraged in attempting such a thing. BTW: does DHS sponsor the CNT?

In today's day and age, in the US at least, even the freakin' UFC would have a zero tolerance policy towards this (forget the NBA, NFL & the NHL).


If the NFL or NBA attempted a fine that out of proportion I think the Players' Unions would be (A) filing suit and (B) threatening a work stoppage.  They might accept a $10,000 fine for something like this.  Where was the due process?  Where is it written that they can take his winnings like that?  And what are they going to do with the money?  Yes an example should be made, but $45,000 is a crime too.

Table tennis players have no union, no representation that is effective and therefore now ability to push back.  Maybe this might get them to do organize something like that, but I doubt it.  Look, I get that you want to nip this kind of thing in the bud, but I haven't walked a mile in ZJK's shoes and don't know what drove this.

I disagree with NL that the right course was to announce that you are seizing his winnings so you can pull back later.  The correct course was to say that you were going to take some action and then wait a few days and decide what it should be, after a bit of discussion that should include the player's representatives to the ITTF.  A competent administrator -- be it sports or academics or business -- never makes a decision on something like that in the heat of the moment.  When you rush it you get it wrong. There was nothing about this that required a decision today or tomorrow.  Late next week would be fine.

As for the idea that ZJK is rich so it doesn't matter.  I think that is not really an argument.  And I don't know how rich he is because I have no idea how much he gets to keep of any of it including advertising endorsements.  It's not the US.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DreiZ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/27/2014 at 12:31am
Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Given ZJK's status in the sport, I think the punishment is appropriate. I wish the ITTF would crack down on ridiculous noisy post point celebrations too. Today, at a tournament, I was privy to watch a match where a teenager was repeatedly using abusive language and hand signs towards his opponent. Another player was celebrating so loudly a young spectator asked whether it was legal to cho so loudly. Some of this stuff needs to be reigned in, and $5000 (or even $45,000) is nothing to someone like ZJK. What is important is that it shows that such behavior will not be tolerated. It is more lenient than actually banning him from events, IMO.

There might be objections to the procedures used to arrive at and execute the judgement, but I fear that a lot of TT bad behavior is already being built into the culture of the sport now.


Couldn't agree more. But it's ZJK, he was building up
his character with this as someone said as his "signature moves".

Fine was not excessive and a lengthy ban would have sparked an outrage by the CNT and ZJK fans.

But to be honest, excessive choing and abusive language are FAR WORSE towards your opponent than kicking a few barriers. If someone cursed at me during or after a match they would certainly get a taste of my size 13 shoes.   

NL, I'm curious as to who might have done that during a Westchester open? Can you pm me some
names if possible?



Edited by DreiZ - 10/27/2014 at 12:32am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote amateur Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/27/2014 at 12:42am
Originally posted by bogeyhunter bogeyhunter wrote:

Just my opinion........not saying it's a right way to do it. I'd quietly send him a Thank you note + extra $5,000.

Just winning = ppl will talk about it for 2 days.
Kicking barriers = ppl talk about it for weeks.
Good or bad , TT needs this. 

IMO, ZJK planned this. From ripping the freaking shirt, the kissing the podium, the standing on the table. Kinda his signature moves after winning big tournaments. Can't wait to see him after winning next Olympic!!!


I agree completely. It has to be put in context of ZJK earlier celebrations - the "problem" for him was what to come up with next, and he only found the poor cardboard barriers.

Nothing unsportsmanlike about this. He wouldn't have done this if he had lost. Totally different from Shibaev or even aggressive cho'ing.

ITTF under Weikert simply lacks humor. A yellow card and a slap on the head by Liu Guoliang would have been sufficient Wink


Edited by amateur - 10/27/2014 at 12:48am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote liulin04 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/27/2014 at 12:46am
Personally, I feel that the fine is over the top.  But I do see that this as a strong deterrent for other players who may think about celebrating in similar way.  ZJK is known for his unorthodox ways of celebration.  Ripping shirt off, taking his Mizuno shoe off in front of TV against WLQ in 2011, standing on table, that's way over the top.  I think ITTF has been more than lenient enough to let him slide for previous incidents.  If ITTF continues to not do anything, I think ZJK will no doubt continue his ways of excessive/unsportsmanlike celebrations.  But then again, ZJK's unsportsmanship/arrogance could be due to his bad Chinese ettiquettes/lack of mannerisms.

Looks like ZJK is the real loser in this match.  Now he will be known as the idiot who lost $45,000 for kicking two boards.  The Internet has already picked up the story, now it's just a matter of time before the rest of the normal non-tt folks learn of this idiot.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/27/2014 at 12:54am
Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

...

I disagree with NL that the right course was to announce that you are seizing his winnings so you can pull back later.  The correct course was to say that you were going to take some action and then wait a few days and decide what it should be, after a bit of discussion that should include the player's representatives to the ITTF.  A competent administrator -- be it sports or academics or business -- never makes a decision on something like that in the heat of the moment.  When you rush it you get it wrong. There was nothing about this that required a decision today or tomorrow.  Late next week would be fine.

As for the idea that ZJK is rich so it doesn't matter.  I think that is not really an argument.  And I don't know how rich he is because I have no idea how much he gets to keep of any of it including advertising endorsements.  It's not the US.

You are judging just about everything in your post by US standards, and then taking the out that we can't apply US standards to how rich ZJK is.  The truth is that the kind of fairness you are appealing to is mostly a US and in some circumstances an European thing, not uniformly applied across all cultures and contexts.  What generally applies is shaming people for bad behavior.  And what I wanted was for ZJK to be shamed.  You don't have to walk a mile in ANYONE's shoes to disdain destroying something that isn't yours as a means of celebration!

I don't think a $5K fine would have achieved that level of shame for a World Champion.  I am okay with the ITTF saying later that the fine was excessive (or not), but the denouncement of such behavior with the kind of punishment that shows strong disapproval, whether the punishment holds up in the long term or not, is what is required.  Sometimes, the legalistic culture in the US doesn't get that or makes that kind of strong action dangerous, which is why they can wave their hands over something like what happened to Ray Rice and pretend that all the facts were not available to judge him fully 4 months ago, then cry foul when the graphic evidence of such behavior comes up later.  Like dragging your wife out of an elevator unconscious with an admission of some form of domestic violence only becomes real when you have the pictures of the actual act of hitting his wife?

What will be interesting is to know the ITTF justification for this - it's hard to imagine that there isn't something the professional players agree to or sign off on that doesn't make this action by the ITTF a possibility.


Edited by NextLevel - 10/27/2014 at 12:59am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/27/2014 at 12:57am
Originally posted by DreiZ DreiZ wrote:

 

NL, I'm curious as to who might have done that during a Westchester open? Can you pm me some
names if possible?


Let them remain nameless.  Would love to shame them, but one of them did apologize to me personally for his bad behavior so it would be bad form to spread his name, though he was the worst offender.
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
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liulin04 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote liulin04 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/27/2014 at 1:00am
If ZJK were to take this to the US court to appeal the fine, I bet his defense lawyers would have said that he was acted in self-defense from the blinding of the evil boards.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FatUglyCrazyKid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/27/2014 at 1:14am
Zhang Jike reminds me of that kid in elementary who tries too hard to be liked.

Privately he talks and acts like a shy kid, not looking at people and mumbling his replies; in matches he plays in a calm, focused manner with displays of passion here and there, but not often. 

Suddenly, after he finishes a match, he transforms into this emotional, passionate beast who rips his shirt, refuses to shake the hand of the victor, and vandalizes boards. This transformation is too drastic for me to believe it is real--rather, it seems to be an attention-seeking technique used  to establish his "bad-boy" image.

He is a poor man's Lin Dan--both reserved and focused on court but rebellious off it. The difference is, Lin Dan is MUCH more well-accomplished, respects his rivals, and doesn't act like a 5-year old kid after he wins and loses. It's one thing to act bad-ass, another to completely disrespect your opponents, the venue staff and the authorities. 

Despite having won so many important tournaments, this man has security and confidence issues, and attempts to cover it up by projecting this image of himself which will prove to hurt him more than it promotes him.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/27/2014 at 1:17am
Originally posted by FatUglyCrazyKid FatUglyCrazyKid wrote:

Zhang Jike reminds me of that kid in elementary who tries too hard to be liked.

Privately he talks and acts like a shy kid, not looking at people and mumbling his replies; in matches he plays in a calm, focused manner with displays of passion here and there, but not often. 

Suddenly, after he finishes a match, he transforms into this emotional, passionate beast who rips his shirt, refuses to shake the hand of the victor, and vandalizes boards. This transformation is too drastic for me to believe it is real--rather, it seems to be an attention-seeking technique used  to establish his "bad-boy" image.

He is a poor man's Lin Dan--both reserved and focused on court but rebellious off it. The difference is, Lin Dan is MUCH more well-accomplished, respects his rivals, and doesn't act like a 5-year old kid after he wins and loses. It's one thing to act bad-ass, another to completely disrespect your opponents, the venue staff and the authorities.<span style="line-height: 1.4;"> </span>

Despite having won so many important tournaments, this man has security and confidence issues, and attempts to cover it up by projecting this image of himself which will prove to hurt him more than it promotes him.
you could be right


Edited by tom - 10/27/2014 at 1:18am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tack_and_grip Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/27/2014 at 1:45am
I think throwing his shirt to the crowd is kind of cool, but destroying banners, whether deliberated or spontaneous, totally lacks sportsmanship and is even an act of violence.  Even more so for a world champion.

Your football/soccer team wins a championship doesn't warrant you to set cars on fire.
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