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Illegal serve by Par Gerell (match point)

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    Posted: 11/24/2014 at 2:07am
Make pause at 6:18.
Par Gerell is serving for the match and the opponent could not see the ball and read the spin (obstruct by his body).


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9GTzRZBxfbg
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/24/2014 at 2:20am
What is the difference between the last serve and all the others?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wturber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/24/2014 at 2:51am
Originally posted by connor connor wrote:

Make pause at 6:18.
Par Gerell is serving for the match and the opponent could not see the ball and read the spin (obstruct by his body).


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9GTzRZBxfbg


Both players repeatedly served illegally. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jackwong23 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/24/2014 at 3:18am
xu xin, tan ruiwu are also
illegal servers
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote the_theologian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/24/2014 at 7:06am
Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

What is the difference between the last serve and all the others?

Exactly. There's no news flash here, unfortunately. Both players exploit the rule as most pro players do.

I would argue that Gerell should be fined for that mustache, however. Sick
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/24/2014 at 8:54am
I don't normally contribute to these threads but I have to agree with this one. The serve at match point was different from the others, that could have been 1999!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Olio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/24/2014 at 9:45am
Agree with Baal.

Gerell is a player who really plays a fine line, and from teh camera angle, most of his serves are wrong.

Interestingly, every rally you see he is on the offensive on his serves, because many returns are careful, not offensive. And the points you don't see in highlights videos are all those serves that go to the net, or long like the match point.

I think he should be called by the players or umpires more often.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Antuan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/24/2014 at 9:59am
All the serves from Gerell are illegal.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote connor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/24/2014 at 10:48am
This is a picture of the last serve of the match.
TT1.jpg
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matt Pimple Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/24/2014 at 10:54am
Originally posted by wturber wturber wrote:

Originally posted by connor connor wrote:

Make pause at 6:18.
Par Gerell is serving for the match and the opponent could not see the ball and read the spin (obstruct by his body).


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9GTzRZBxfbg


Both players repeatedly served illegally. 
And so do a lot of players at the local club including myself at times.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kevo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/24/2014 at 11:14am
No complaints from Fergerl though.  They were both at it.  Great highlights btw.  Thanks for posting it!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fehrplay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/24/2014 at 2:20pm
It's sad but most of the pros are using "cheat"serves when it comes to important points. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/24/2014 at 3:12pm
What a stupid rule. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jrscatman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/24/2014 at 3:18pm
Originally posted by connor connor wrote:

This is a picture of the last serve of the match.
TT1.jpg
Well done Clap
Can't argue with that - illegal!
But I think the Pro players are used to it - they all serve right on the legal - illegal line. I think the umpires or ITTF need to be decisive about calling these or letting them go. Otherwise, we'll end up with the London Olympics type situation. 
Thanks for posting the match - very nice match to watch. Which league is that?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jrscatman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/24/2014 at 3:20pm
Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

What a stupid rule. 
I would change it to - "no body parts or racquets in front of the ball once it's tossed!"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote igorponger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/24/2014 at 3:52pm
just optical illusion. Rather correct service by Gerell. The receiver does able to see the whole service action all along.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote smackman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/24/2014 at 4:17pm
Originally posted by igorponger igorponger wrote:

just optical illusion. Rather correct service by Gerell. The receiver does able to see the whole service action all along.
hmmm don't think so , a near vertical toss rule will fix this problem ......... what you say "we already have this rule"? why don't the umpires call players, what because they are old and scared and only volunteers, oh that's ok we will just leave it status quo then
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote suds79 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/24/2014 at 4:43pm
Originally posted by Fehrplay Fehrplay wrote:

It's sad but most of the pros are using "cheat"serves when it comes to important points. 

Yep. Puts pressure on the umpire to make a call that the almost never call in a crucial moment. 

Little gamesmanship going on there if you ask me. It's dumb but what can you do.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cmugica Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/24/2014 at 4:46pm
The umpires are so bad...

Edited by cmugica - 11/24/2014 at 4:46pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GMan4911 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/24/2014 at 5:50pm
Quote 2.6.04 From the start of service until it is struck, the ball shall be above the level of the playing surface and behind the server's end line, and it shall not be hidden from the receiver by the server or his or her doubles partner or by anything they wear or carry.

The rule is pretty clear to me.  IMO, I don't think the umpires are really in position to see what the players can/can't see, especially when the ball is tossed towards the body.  If players complained more, the umpires would call it more.  In the case of the match above, if either player complained, it would make their own serves open for complaint, which is why neither complained.  LOL


Edited by GMan4911 - 11/24/2014 at 5:53pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roundrobin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/24/2014 at 6:10pm
9 out of 10 left-handed players I've ever played against, served illegally.  I couldn't see the contact point at all.  Fact.

To be fair, one of them told me they couldn't see many right-handed players' service contact point either (from where he prefers to stand to receive serves).




Edited by roundrobin - 11/24/2014 at 6:16pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/24/2014 at 10:18pm
Originally posted by igorponger igorponger wrote:

just optical illusion. Rather correct service by Gerell. The receiver does able to see the whole service action all along.
Mostly I think this is right.  It is clear that sometimes camera angles make it look more hidden than it is to the receiver.  That last one did look pretty hidden, though.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/24/2014 at 10:19pm
Originally posted by jrscatman jrscatman wrote:

Originally posted by connor connor wrote:

This is a picture of the last serve of the match.
TT1.jpg
Well done Clap
Can't argue with that - illegal!
But I think the Pro players are used to it - they all serve right on the legal - illegal line. I think the umpires or ITTF need to be decisive about calling these or letting them go. Otherwise, we'll end up with the London Olympics type situation. 
Thanks for posting the match - very nice match to watch. Which league is that?


As long as they are mostly consistent, it is fine.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jackwong23 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/24/2014 at 11:38pm
he should be banned. disgraceful serve
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote collins.latag Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/25/2014 at 3:12am
Originally posted by wturber wturber wrote:

Originally posted by connor connor wrote:

Make pause at 6:18.
Par Gerell is serving for the match and the opponent could not see the ball and read the spin (obstruct by his body).


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9GTzRZBxfbg


Both players repeatedly served illegally. 

only difference between the serves was the last receive made... clearly chopped received a side top serve.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fehrplay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/25/2014 at 3:46am
Originally posted by cmugica cmugica wrote:

The umpires are so bad...

It's really hard to make a fast decision and right decision when it comes to the end points, I blame the rule and not the umpires..  


Edited by Fehrplay - 11/25/2014 at 3:46am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JohnnyChop Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/25/2014 at 11:45am
The so and so have illegal serves comes up so often… this makes me wonder which of the top players actually have 100% legal serves? or even legal rubbers?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Makelele Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/25/2014 at 12:14pm
Originally posted by JohnnyChop JohnnyChop wrote:

The so and so have illegal serves comes up so often… this makes me wonder which of the top players actually have 100% legal serves? or even legal rubbers?
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wturber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/25/2014 at 12:41pm
Originally posted by Fehrplay Fehrplay wrote:

Originally posted by cmugica cmugica wrote:

The umpires are so bad...

It's really hard to make a fast decision and right decision when it comes to the end points, I blame the rule and not the umpires..  

It isn't difficult at all.  If there is any doubt, the rule says you call the serve.  That's simple and easy. Other sports do it all the time. Players simply adjust to the call.  What isn't simple and easy is getting the table tennis culture to accept umpires making the calls according to the rules.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/25/2014 at 1:05pm
Originally posted by JohnnyChop JohnnyChop wrote:

The so and so have illegal serves comes up so often… this makes me wonder which of the top players actually have 100% legal serves? or even legal rubbers?



Samsonov. His serves during then hidden serves era would be legal today.
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