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Interesting final in Rhode Island

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    Posted: 01/30/2015 at 10:33am
The RITTA winter open final matched Rich DeWitt against Juan Vila, a member of the Dominican Republic team. Note that Juan defeated Timothy Wang at the 2012 worlds in Germany. Ok, if you must know his USATT rating for this match, it was 2398. The first two games (in a best of 5) look like a clear mismatch, however it all changed starting with game 3.

   


Edited by heavyspin - 01/30/2015 at 10:35am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hookumsnivy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/30/2015 at 10:57am
Wow.  I'm curious what adjustments Rich made that changed the match so dramatically.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/30/2015 at 11:50am
Originally posted by hookumsnivy hookumsnivy wrote:

Wow.  I'm curious what adjustments Rich made that changed the match so dramatically.

The match didn't change that dramatically.  Rich could easily have lost it in the 4th as well.  The looper getting tired is key, the blocker adjusting to the looper's spin and getting better at finding the true elbow point, and then being able to go wide to either side after going there etc.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote macpoddy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/31/2015 at 2:04am
All the opponent had to was just to stop looping and start pushing and you could see a 1700 rated player beat him with that style.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tassie52 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/31/2015 at 6:57am
Originally posted by heavyspin heavyspin wrote:

The RITTA winter open final matched Rich DeWitt against Juan Vila
This is a joke, right? This is one of those gag shows, yes? A final? Without an umpire? Without even a score keeper? You're pulling my leg.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote heavyspin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/31/2015 at 8:02am
It's a small tournament. You can here clapping so at least there were spectators.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Skyline Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/31/2015 at 8:03am
It's really funny to see a player like Rich Dewitt hitting everything really flat(with backspin). It's really a dificult game to play against. Imho he does rely a little to much on his deceptiveness and lacks true blocking skill but still causes problems to some really good players.

Edited by Skyline - 01/31/2015 at 8:15am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hookumsnivy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/31/2015 at 8:28am
Originally posted by macpoddy macpoddy wrote:

All the opponent had to was just to stop looping and start pushing and you could see a 1700 rated player beat him with that style.

Wait, which of those players could be beaten by a 1700 level player with a pushing style?  I'd love to hear this, and why you think that.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hookumsnivy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/31/2015 at 8:33am
Originally posted by Skyline Skyline wrote:

It's really funny to see a player like Rich Dewitt hitting everything really flat(with backspin). It's really a dificult game to play against. Imho he does rely a little to much on his deceptiveness and lacks true blocking skill but still causes problems to some really good players.

Lacks blocking skill?  I don't know about that one.
The first I saw Rich play (I had never heard of him before), I watched him block down and drive an athletic 2150 player nuts.  In this video, his opponent seems to be at another level and just had trouble adjusting to Rich's game.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/31/2015 at 8:56am
Originally posted by hookumsnivy hookumsnivy wrote:

Originally posted by macpoddy macpoddy wrote:

All the opponent had to was just to stop looping and start pushing and you could see a 1700 rated player beat him with that style.

Wait, which of those players could be beaten by a 1700 level player with a pushing style?  I'd love to hear this, and why you think that.

On this I agree with you - Rich's game has more layers than macpoddy is giving him credit for, though macpoddy does have a point that the DeVila looped way too much and didn't have a Rich-specific strategy for playing Rich.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/31/2015 at 8:58am
Originally posted by hookumsnivy hookumsnivy wrote:

Originally posted by Skyline Skyline wrote:

It's really funny to see a player like Rich Dewitt hitting everything really flat(with backspin). It's really a dificult game to play against. Imho he does rely a little to much on his deceptiveness and lacks true blocking skill but still causes problems to some really good players.

Lacks blocking skill?  I don't know about that one.
The first I saw Rich play (I had never heard of him before), I watched him block down and drive an athletic 2150 player nuts.  In this video, his opponent seems to be at another level and just had trouble adjusting to Rich's game.

Skyline's point is that it is not the blocks per se, but the ball quality that causes issues.  Also, Rich tends to let his rubber age fairly quickly (to put it mildly) and may use it well beyond what a true inverted player would consider reasonable.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JimT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/31/2015 at 10:59am
Originally posted by heavyspin heavyspin wrote:

It's a small tournament. You can here clapping so at least there were spectators.


Larry, were you there?

I can see Vlad Shapiro playing on the next table - who did he lose to in the Open (I presume in the semifinal)? to Juan?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/31/2015 at 11:29am
Originally posted by JimT JimT wrote:

Originally posted by heavyspin heavyspin wrote:

It's a small tournament. You can here clapping so at least there were spectators.


Larry, were you there?

I can see Vlad Shapiro playing on the next table - who did he lose to in the Open (I presume in the semifinal)? to Juan?

You can see Larry in the background on the other table early in the match.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote heavyspin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/31/2015 at 11:58am
Originally posted by JimT JimT wrote:


Larry, were you there?

I can see Vlad Shapiro playing on the next table - who did he lose to in the Open (I presume in the semifinal)? to Juan?

Vlad (#2 seed) lost to Juan Vila (#1 seed) in the semifinal. So why did #1 play #2 in the semi's? I'll tell you why.......I, Heavyspin, upset Juan Vila in the RR group (3-1) so he finished 2nd in his RR group. 2 players advanced so I assumed the #1 seed placing in the final stage and Juan went to Vlad's half of the draw.



Edited by heavyspin - 01/31/2015 at 11:59am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BH-Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/31/2015 at 12:40pm
Originally posted by macpoddy macpoddy wrote:

All the opponent had to was just to stop looping and start pushing and you could see a 1700 rated player beat him with that style.
 
 
Haha, my pushing is at least 1700 USATT level and there is NO WAY I would defeat Rich by pushing (Unless I managed to land every push right on endline with good placement) (and that isn't 1700 USATT level, that is 2300+ level pushing/accuracy/placement/consistency)
 
You give Rich 1700 level pushed and he will swat them like flies with BH flick or FH flick either away from you and by you or at a bad place for you.
 
Nope, 1700 level pushing isn't gunna get it done vs Rich. You can try to hit it by him, but he blocks off bounce well too and you better be on balance and ready to follow fast. Heavy spin deep is effective vs him, but Rich isn't dumb, he isn't gunna give you balls to spin up every shot. He is gunna place it to invite you to try and fail. Only 2200ish level players have the consistency of quality to threaten him with that strategy... and that still isn't an assured win, just means they can have the threat.
 
You can have some success moving him around, but the problem is getting the chance. You can try all you want to try to move him around, but he is 2200+ level for a reason and you gotta cope with his placement and it isn't easy to execute even being a 2200 level player, you gotta play vs him yourself to know. Rich gives even the 2400 crowd major trouble as you see if you do tourneys in the NE region.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/31/2015 at 1:52pm
Originally posted by heavyspin heavyspin wrote:

Originally posted by JimT JimT wrote:


Larry, were you there?

I can see Vlad Shapiro playing on the next table - who did he lose to in the Open (I presume in the semifinal)? to Juan?


Vlad (#2 seed) lost to Juan Vila (#1 seed) in the semifinal. So why did #1 play #2 in the semi's? I'll tell you why.......<span style="line-height: 16.7999992370605px;">I, Heavyspin, </span><span style="line-height: 16.7999992370605px;">upset Juan Vila in the RR group (3-1) so he</span><span style="line-height: 1.4;"> finished 2nd in his RR group. </span><span style="line-height: 1.4;">2 players advanced so I assumed the #1 seed placing in the final stage and Juan went to Vlad's half of the draw.</span>
<span style="line-height: 1.4;">
</span>



So you lost to Rich, I presume?

Now I get it. This video is probably your humble way of softening us up to heat the good news that you beat someone who once killed Timothy Wang. Now of only Rich hadn't done it as well....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote smackman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/31/2015 at 5:16pm
Originally posted by JimT JimT wrote:

Originally posted by heavyspin heavyspin wrote:

It's a small tournament. You can here clapping so at least there were spectators.


Larry, were you there?

I can see Vlad Shapiro playing on the next table - who did he lose to in the Open (I presume in the semifinal)? to Juan?
hay did Vlad Shapiro come to NZ for the world Veterans and is he Jims mate? edit just noticed Jim said his name doh!

Edited by smackman - 01/31/2015 at 5:50pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote smackman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/31/2015 at 5:21pm
Originally posted by Tassie52 Tassie52 wrote:

Originally posted by heavyspin heavyspin wrote:

The RITTA winter open final matched Rich DeWitt against Juan Vila
This is a joke, right? This is one of those gag shows, yes? A final? Without an umpire? Without even a score keeper? You're pulling my leg.
 Americans don't worry about that stuff, We like Aussie and Europe will have umpires for all competition games and not just a final hehehe, So don't worry and don't think of the Frozen song
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote smackman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/31/2015 at 5:23pm
I think Richard stuffed up one point at 10mins 20 seconds where he had his opponent in a tangle and then did a soft shot to the opposite corner, hence lucky edge and lost game
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote heavyspin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/31/2015 at 5:49pm
Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

 
So you lost to Rich, I presume?

Now I get it. This video is probably your humble way of softening us up to heat the good news that you beat someone who once killed Timothy Wang. Now of only Rich hadn't done it as well....

There's no video of my win over Vila and I couldn't come up with a good way of bringing it up. With regard to another thread, I served almost exclusively short to Juan, recognizing / respecting his ability to attack serves.
I lost 3-1 to Rich in the semifinal and Vlad and I played for 3rd place and I lost 3-1. I did better than usual against Vlad, I lost one game 16-14 so it was close to going 5. To Smackman: yes, I believe Vlad Shapiro did play the Vets in New Zealand.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote smackman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/31/2015 at 6:23pm
To Smackman: yes, I believe Vlad Shapiro did play the Vets in New Zealand.

 Nice fella I took a guess when I saw him here and asked if he was Russian and if he knew people on this forum, I saw him in the over 50's singles winning a hard earned game against a top Australian player
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/31/2015 at 11:28pm
Originally posted by heavyspin heavyspin wrote:

Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

 
So you lost to Rich, I presume?

Now I get it. This video is probably your humble way of softening us up to heat the good news that you beat someone who once killed Timothy Wang. Now of only Rich hadn't done it as well....

There's no video of my win over Vila and I couldn't come up with a good way of bringing it up. With regard to another thread, I served almost exclusively short to Juan, recognizing / respecting his ability to attack serves.
I lost 3-1 to Rich in the semifinal and Vlad and I played for 3rd place and I lost 3-1. I did better than usual against Vlad, I lost one game 16-14 so it was close to going 5. To Smackman: yes, I believe Vlad Shapiro did play the Vets in New Zealand.

I was being facetious though - congrats on the win.  So you should have gotten/be getting another adjustment because that's clearly a 50 pt win, though the loss to Rich might temper it a bit - Shapiro should be high enough that it doesn't matter.  

Even without the adjustment, that is still a big win.  That's the right kind of day not to have a camera, is it...  and more evidence that your long pips backhand usage is a form of sand bagging...


Edited by NextLevel - 01/31/2015 at 11:43pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/01/2015 at 6:45pm
BTW, what's your best ever win?  Just curious.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gekogark1212 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/01/2015 at 7:10pm
I wonder if this kind of finals match brings in more or fewer players in the long run?

On the one hand it gives mature players hope that skill can trump athleticism....
Then on another it just doesn't look very appealing to those jock types...which ultimately, plebeianism does bring about more coverage and prize money and hence higher participation....

Just thinking out loud haha
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote heavyspin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/01/2015 at 8:10pm
Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

BTW, what's your best ever win?  Just curious.

My best win was probably Alain Bourbonnais from Quebec, Canadian national team member.  Match took place at the Teams in Detroit in the mid 90's. In my heavy state, I consider De Tran my best win. I put De Tran over Juan Vila because I felt in control over De Tran (3-0) while I felt Juan Vila was in control but missed a lot.    


Edited by heavyspin - 02/01/2015 at 8:28pm
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Originally posted by gekogark1212 gekogark1212 wrote:

I wonder if this kind of finals match brings in more or fewer players in the long run?

Just thinking out loud haha

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BeaverMD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/02/2015 at 12:42am
Originally posted by BH-Man BH-Man wrote:

Originally posted by macpoddy macpoddy wrote:

All the opponent had to was just to stop looping and start pushing and you could see a 1700 rated player beat him with that style.
 
 
Haha, my pushing is at least 1700 USATT level and there is NO WAY I would defeat Rich by pushing (Unless I managed to land every push right on endline with good placement) (and that isn't 1700 USATT level, that is 2300+ level pushing/accuracy/placement/consistency)
 
You give Rich 1700 level pushed and he will swat them like flies with BH flick or FH flick either away from you and by you or at a bad place for you.
 
Nope, 1700 level pushing isn't gunna get it done vs Rich. You can try to hit it by him, but he blocks off bounce well too and you better be on balance and ready to follow fast. Heavy spin deep is effective vs him, but Rich isn't dumb, he isn't gunna give you balls to spin up every shot. He is gunna place it to invite you to try and fail. Only 2200ish level players have the consistency of quality to threaten him with that strategy... and that still isn't an assured win, just means they can have the threat.
 
You can have some success moving him around, but the problem is getting the chance. You can try all you want to try to move him around, but he is 2200+ level for a reason and you gotta cope with his placement and it isn't easy to execute even being a 2200 level player, you gotta play vs him yourself to know. Rich gives even the 2400 crowd major trouble as you see if you do tourneys in the NE region.
 
Don't... feed... the...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BeaverMD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/02/2015 at 12:52am
Originally posted by hookumsnivy hookumsnivy wrote:

Wow.  I'm curious what adjustments Rich made that changed the match so dramatically.
 
I think he was very passive for the first two games.  For the remaining games, he made some very good adjustments.  First, he used the BH flat flip against Juan's serve more.  This put a little more pressure on Juan's third ball attacks.  Second, Juan is very aggressive in using the BH flip against short serves to his BH.  Rich, varied his serves a bit more to cause Juan to miss.  Finally, the most important adjustment was Rich punching his FH block more instead of just sticking the racket out.  This gave a variation of depth which caused Juan to miss more.
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BH-Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/02/2015 at 1:53am
Hey Beaver, this is Wally. If you know my last name you know it waz an ole nickname of me) I hear you about feeding, but I wrote that for everyone's benefit, especially those who never played vs Rich or mis-understand his game.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jrscatman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/02/2015 at 3:16am
Originally posted by gekogark1212 gekogark1212 wrote:

I wonder if this kind of finals match brings in more or fewer players in the long run?

On the one hand it gives mature players hope that skill can trump athleticism....
Then on another it just doesn't look very appealing to those jock types...which ultimately, plebeianism does bring about more coverage and prize money and hence higher participation....

Just thinking out loud haha
I would say less as people who don't know the sport well - won't appreciate what the man's doing. They would think anyone can pick up racquet and do that!
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