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weights of balls(Yinhe/XSF/Palio)

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stevenjlyang View Drop Down
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    Posted: 02/07/2015 at 9:05pm
just picture.



Edited by stevenjlyang - 02/08/2015 at 7:13am
ZJK ALC 90g: T80 + T05FX
Boll ALC 89g: AIROC M + Calibra LT Spin
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stevenjlyang Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/07/2015 at 9:07pm
continuing
ZJK ALC 90g: T80 + T05FX
Boll ALC 89g: AIROC M + Calibra LT Spin
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stevenjlyang Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/07/2015 at 9:09pm
 
double fish seamed ball.


Edited by stevenjlyang - 02/07/2015 at 9:20pm
ZJK ALC 90g: T80 + T05FX
Boll ALC 89g: AIROC M + Calibra LT Spin
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stevenjlyang Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/07/2015 at 9:12pm
Palio's seamless ball.
ZJK ALC 90g: T80 + T05FX
Boll ALC 89g: AIROC M + Calibra LT Spin
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stevenjlyang Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/07/2015 at 9:14pm
double happiness's poly ball, seamed.


Edited by stevenjlyang - 02/07/2015 at 9:15pm
ZJK ALC 90g: T80 + T05FX
Boll ALC 89g: AIROC M + Calibra LT Spin
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/07/2015 at 9:32pm
Those are pretty similar to what I measured.  I got an average of 2.75 for 10 XSF balls (range 2.72-2.77).  About 2.82 for 9 Joola 40+ balls (made by DHS), all of them over 2.80.  I have not weighed DF.  Nittaku Premium 40+ were around 2.68.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/07/2015 at 9:33pm
What's the ITTF legal range?
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/07/2015 at 9:38pm
After January 2016,
 2.70g, but
any weight between 2.67 and 2.77g is acceptable for any one
ball. No more than 1 ball out of the 24 sampled may be outside this range. The sample
mean must be between 2.69 and 2.76g. In carrying out statistical calculations any
weights less than 2.60g or greater than 2.85g are considered  outliers.

The standard deviation of a sample of 24 balls may not exceed 0.03g.

ITTF subjects balls to random testing.  XSF is one of the few plastic balls that meet the 2016 standards today.

There are other requirements for roundness, color, bounce.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pnachtwey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/07/2015 at 11:24pm
Cole put one Yinhe plastic ball in with my order of normal Gambler balls.  The Yinhe ball feels a little heavy when we hit is and it is a little heavy.  The ball weighs 2.77 gr.  I have a scale that is accurate to 0.01 gr and it must be calibrated every so often so I know it is accurate.

No one really seems to notice the difference unless we really try.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/07/2015 at 11:33pm
Weights of balls are very difficult to assess when you play with them because things that are not actually related to weight seem to be perceived as difference in weight when you play with them.  Also, a couple of hundredths of a gram probably matter very little, and there are other things may well matter more, such as how rough the surface is, how compressible, all sorts of things.  Your number for Yinhe is exactly what I got for XSF, which is to be expected since they are the same ball with a different label and this is an objective measure and we both used calibrated laboratory balances.

The various types of plastic balls have other properties that matter more.  I think static bounce height and roundess seem to correlate best with whether people like the balls or not.  I actually prefer the balls a little heavier.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stevenjlyang Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/08/2015 at 5:25am
how do we measure the hardness of the balls? Is there a way to do this? i suppose that the hardness is more important than the weight, actually the feeling of the heavier ball is not what we expected that they are heavier balls, i just want to know if the heavier ball is the hardness one. but i don't know how can i test it.
ZJK ALC 90g: T80 + T05FX
Boll ALC 89g: AIROC M + Calibra LT Spin
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/08/2015 at 5:55am
You just have to play with it. In fact, actual hardness can be different from how the ball feels. Actual hardness can be tested by trying to dent the ball. Easier to dent is softer.
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stevenjlyang Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/08/2015 at 7:10am
Palio's 6 balls:




Edited by stevenjlyang - 02/08/2015 at 7:10am
ZJK ALC 90g: T80 + T05FX
Boll ALC 89g: AIROC M + Calibra LT Spin
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stevenjlyang Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/08/2015 at 7:12am
XSF:

ZJK ALC 90g: T80 + T05FX
Boll ALC 89g: AIROC M + Calibra LT Spin
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zhijie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/08/2015 at 7:55am
Thanks for sharing.

2 weeks ago, me and my clubmate tried YinHE and XSF ball. We only used 1 each. Both of us feel that the XSF ball feel heavier. I can feel the diff after several strokes. It's more obvious if when I try to do slow loop. But we didn't measure the weight of the balls.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/08/2015 at 11:54am
Steven, your results are exactly like mine for XSF.  Can you check the dates on the XSF and Yinhe to see if they were made in same month?  There is a four letter code on the box.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/08/2015 at 1:23pm
Originally posted by stevenjlyang stevenjlyang wrote:

how do we measure the hardness of the balls? Is there a way to do this? i suppose that the hardness is more important than the weight, actually the feeling of the heavier ball is not what we expected that they are heavier balls, i just want to know if the heavier ball is the hardness one. but i don't know how can i test it.
The most obvious way - pinch with your thumb.  If you want to go pro, the ITTF uses a zwick tester.
Viscaria FL - 91g
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= 184.8g
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote igorponger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/08/2015 at 6:20pm
WHY DO WE NEED TRUE MEASUREMENTS ON THE BALL..

1) Ball Mass is a very true index to if the ball is durable / not durable.
The greater ball's mass the better ball's durability.

2) Geometrical Hardness..   Not what you could measure at home. Hand fingers is NOT reliablle instrument to do the hardness evaluation. A complex testing device is needed, Zwick or Simens laboratory robotic center.
    Hardness below 0.70 would feels stony stiff, quite nasty feeling indeed.   
    Nittaku Premium 40+ is the stiffest ball specimen on market, stony hard.

    --------------
    
BALL HARDNESS EVALUATION at home Kutchen board, without obtaining this terrible money waster Zwick machine, 2,000,000$

A time ago, I happened to have got a set of 5 calibration balls, directly from Nittaku factory labolatory, by courtesy of Mr.Harrison then ITTF official in power.
Each of the Nittaku sample is marked with an actual hardness, that is measured in exact accordance to ITTF T4 testing guidance.
0.70   0.74   0.76   0.85   0.90

So, I can now tell any ball's hardness by giving the test ball some finger's pressure and then I can correlate my tactile feeling with the calibration ball of the Nittaku set. It takes a very clever finger, of course.

Edited by igorponger - 02/08/2015 at 11:51pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/08/2015 at 7:16pm
Igor. My experience is that DHS and Joola break all the time and weigh more than seamless balls that have good durability. That has been verified by lots of people.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stevenjlyang Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/08/2015 at 11:33pm
Originally posted by igorponger igorponger wrote:

WHY DO WE NEED TRUE MEASUREMENTS ON THE BALL..

1) Ball Mass Measure is a very true index to if the ball is durable / not durable.
The greater mass the better ball's durability.

2) Geometrical Hardness..   Not what you could measure at home. Hand fingers is NOT reliablle instrument to do the hardness evaluation. A complex testing device is needed, Zwick or Simens laboratory robotic center.

    Hardness below 0.70 would feel stony stiff, quite nasty feeling indeed.   
    Nittaku Premium 40+ is the stiffest specie on market, stony hard.


--------------
    
BALL HARDNESS EVALUATION AT Kutchen TABLE, without obtaining this terrible money waster Zwick machine, 2,000,000$

A time ago, I happened to have got a reference set of 5 balls, directly from Nittaku factory labolatory. (by courtesy Mr. Harrison, then ITTF official in power).
The Nittaku balls is marked with a hardness numbered, that is measured in numbers in accordance to ITTF T4 testing guidance.
0.70 0.74 0.76   0.85 0.90

So, I can now tell any ball 's hardness by giving the test ball some   finger's pressure and then I can correlate my tactile feeling with the calibration ball of the Nittaku set. It takes a very clever finger, of course. [:8]
hi,igorponger:
thanks for your information.
ZJK ALC 90g: T80 + T05FX
Boll ALC 89g: AIROC M + Calibra LT Spin
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stevenjlyang Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/11/2015 at 10:41pm
Palio's date code: XDAC 
XSF: ADXC
ZJK ALC 90g: T80 + T05FX
Boll ALC 89g: AIROC M + Calibra LT Spin
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote igorponger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/11/2015 at 11:09pm
Mr. Kuneth suggested on some German forum conversation:
-- DHS plastic in orange is expected on market soon.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stevenjlyang Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/12/2015 at 2:05am
i heard that DHS's seamless ball is expected on market soon.
ZJK ALC 90g: T80 + T05FX
Boll ALC 89g: AIROC M + Calibra LT Spin
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote igorponger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/19/2017 at 5:20pm
Is the novelty materiial DHS D40+ ball really a legal product.?
It is an open question as yet.

I have now obtained a couple and have very strong suspection of legality of this product.
Hardness of the ball is the concern. By finger pressure test, it feels stony, dead stiff, much like some ivory billiard ball. Never before played with such a hard ball. No pleasure in play, bounce unpredictable, skidding on the table.
DHS claims it is fully a standard product. I do not think so, till I know the actual results of the ball approval tests.
I seek to know actual laboratory measurements of the "geometric hardness" on the DHS ball, using the laboratory testing machine. Let me know the resulting numbers of the test? I need the results.
According to my own finger perception the DHS ball is likely failing to meet with the T4 hardness standard.

The current hardness limits, as set by the T4 Technical Regulations, is 0.69 --0.80 millimeters.   By my "fingerpress" evaluation, the DHS Ball would be something like 0,67,   clearly beyond the permissible limits.

Marketing non-standard products is a fraud, I believe.   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matt Pimple Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/19/2017 at 5:49pm
Originally posted by igorponger igorponger wrote:

According to my own finger perception the DHS ball is likely failing to meet with the T4 hardness standard.

The current hardness limits, as set by the T4 Technical Regulations, is 0.69 --0.80 millimeters.   By my "fingerpress" evaluation, the DHS Ball would be something like 0,67,   clearly beyond the permissible limits.

Really? So you make some sort of a "finger test" and you can tell that the ball is 0.02mm outside of the spec range?
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