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Anyone want to improve their stroke in 10secs? |
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illinichamps 
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 Topic: Anyone want to improve their stroke in 10secs?Posted: 02/21/2015 at 11:20am |
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Hi everyone.. I just saw this clip yesterday and tried out this new grip.. It was slightly different from the one that my coach taught me, but when I tried it yesterday it improved (for me) the quality of both my bh and fh strokes. @.53 he is talking about the difference between the fh and bh grips. @1.20 (The most important tip I think) He puts his thumb on the slant of the paddle. @1.30 (Another amazing tip) He puts the bottom of the handle as close to the thumb as possible. You should have a small hole in between the three fingers and the handle. @1.40 He is saying that holding it too tight is not good for your strokes. @2.21 He is saying that your pinky should be firm to finish the overall grip. @2.33 He is showing the bh grip that you can easily do with this grip. @2.53 is the fh grip (Also he says the hand should be loose. Which all of us should know.) After that is talking about wrist action during a loop.. for those interested i can translate later. But to sum up what he says is that when you cock back your wrist for the loop, you don't need to purposely use the wrist when hitting the loop. If you just cock it back and follow through correctly your wrist will naturally be released (therefore letting you use the wrist). Purposely using your wrist can mess with your timing and quality of shot.. Hope this helps.. I know it won't be for everyone, and i still have to get use to it but for me I am very happy I got to see this video. Improved my game a lot for the 6mins i saw this video.. cheers..
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BH-Man
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Posted: 02/21/2015 at 12:01pm |
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He is addressing a group of newb Ajoshi and Achuma. (older gents and ladies)
From 2:00 to 2:30 he was setting up the demonstration of how to use thumb for BH stability and how to slide it back to neutral during stroke recovery, that is how I do my transition and I don't think about it.
The main point he was saying leading up to that is that whatever FH or BH dominant grip you end up with the important things are to have the thumb NOT on the rubber, but on right on the slope of the handle where it meets the blade face and to have that small gap on the bottom finger.
Around 4:00 he is talking about the importance of having a consistent swing plane. Many amatures try to change the swing plane and try to "wrap" arm around the ball and that is both inconsistent, difficult, and takes away from wrist snap.
The leadup to and at/after 6:00 is about how to use the wrist. The wrist has several possible directions it can go. If it goes same direction as the swing, it is natural and stable to the shot. (This is the part of the wrist where you got 20 degrees or so of pivot on the same swing plane, not the 90 degree pivot room of the slap)
He repeats the importance of thumb position and slight bottom finger gap at the end.
A vid well worth watching, even established players benefit from seeing it again and being able to talking that kind of detail to others.
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Korea Foreign Table Tennis Club
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BH-Man
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Posted: 02/21/2015 at 12:04pm |
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About the wrist, he was stressing that you use that 20 degree wiggle room and keep the whipping action of the wrist parallel to the swing plane just as he was demonstrating. This is how I have been looping on Fh and it works good and natural. Very stable and adds to power when timed. If you have good lower body power and weight transfer, you get good whipping action and the wrist will carry through (as long as you use the same swing plane and NOT the SLAP part of the wrist (like you would use on a FH flick) )
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Makelele
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Posted: 02/21/2015 at 3:03pm |
Thanks for the video,man. I don't get it when you say that the bottom of the blade should be as close to the thumb as possible. Another thing I don't get is this: in the part that goes from 2.32 to 2.50 is he saying that is correct to have a different grip for FH and BH? For FH with the thumb in the wood and for BH with the thumb in the rubber? Or you have to put the thumb in the wood both in FH and BH strokes? Thanks
Edited by Makelele - 02/21/2015 at 3:10pm |
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illinichamps
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Posted: 02/21/2015 at 3:51pm |
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Sorry about that.. lol.. i should reread my postings before i post..
the bottom of the blade should be pressed close to the muscle right below the thumb. This will cause that small hole between your three fingers and the handle. If you look at his video, @1.30 he presses the handle with his finger to the thumb, showing that the handle is nestled comfortably near the muscle below the thumb. And yes there are two different grips for fh and bh. bh is where you put your thumb out and forehand is putting the thumb on the slant (actually i think you want to a little beyond that to make a better angle for a fh grip.. but that is my preference..) hope this helps brother.. |
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illinichamps
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Posted: 02/21/2015 at 3:52pm |
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and thanks BH man for doing the rest.. you da bomb.. haha..
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Makelele
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Posted: 02/21/2015 at 4:22pm |
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OK, now I get it. "Beyond" the slant is your preference? You mean more down the handle or closer to the rubber, touching it?
Yes, thanks also to BH-Man
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Waldme1ster
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Posted: 02/21/2015 at 6:41pm |
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Care to share what OSE has to say on that matter?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7eFOcahsMec&list=PLqzu2vEauXEcG2BkXOyQydNbZD6usfgN8&feature=player_detailpage#t=133 |
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illinichamps
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Posted: 02/21/2015 at 8:34pm |
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OK, now I get it. "Beyond" the slant is your preference? You mean more down the handle or closer to the rubber, touching it? Yes, thanks also to BH-Man ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- thumb to close the angle of my racket for my fh grip. opposite of what raising the thumb does for the bh grip. ^^
Edited by illinichamps - 02/21/2015 at 8:34pm |
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illinichamps
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Posted: 02/21/2015 at 8:41pm |
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ose wants u to actually use the thumb and press the
mid bottom of the rubber. My coach taught me this grip as well, but i feel that the new grip is giving me greater accuracy in my strokes (although it feels a bit foreign at the moment as i am trying to adjust).. the forehand strokes that use to just miss are hitting and the topspin on my backhand loops are more spinny.. i say try both and see what you like.. it's all about preference i guess but for me i have seen vast improvement just changing it a little. i am very serious about having the best grip as from experience (from playing A LOT of golf/tennis/ baseball and etc ) sometimes the small things can make a huge difference..
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BH-Man
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Posted: 02/21/2015 at 9:51pm |
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My thumb is just a little higher than what the Korean coach shows in that vid for my BH shots I know are coming. I know I got a lot of time with an incoming underspin and normally, I am doing a slow loop with heavy spin, so I also got time to get back to neutral during the recovery like the coach shows on the downswing back. The recovery is similar to switching back to neutral grip after doing a serve. (Normally you have thumb and forefinger on each side of rubber.)
Waldmeister, I'll take a look at the vid. I take it you mean at the time interval where narrator talks about grip, right?
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BH-Man
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Posted: 02/21/2015 at 10:03pm |
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Here is the vid and below I'll talk about what they are talking about.
Oh !!! I remember this vid, saw it a few times over the years.
This is a sports show narration series that take the pretty looking hosts to see the top players in each sport and have them break down basics.
This vid will be bare bones basic, but I'll fill you in on what Oh Sang Uhn is telling her.
1:51 She asks if she is holding the bat wrong. Oh Sang Uhn says no. He says he saw a problem with her grip. she holds up a J-pen bat and a shakehand bat and asks if you hold them different.
2:10 OSE breaks down how to grip a shakehand bat... like shaking a hand... comfortably.
2:30 he says to keep forefinger slid all the way down to bottom of rubber. NOT up in middle. He says thumb should be not too low, not too high. he places it on the rubber above the slant of the handle. He says don't let the remaining fingers get too low.
(This is a similar grip I use, the last few years I have been gripping it high up)
3:00 he shakes the bat and says you should shake the bat and it shouldn't fall out.
4:00 he talks about how to slightly change the grip to slightly FH and slightly BH. Edited by BH-Man - 02/21/2015 at 10:04pm |
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Lestat
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Posted: 02/21/2015 at 11:53pm |
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Thanks BH-Man, nice work!
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Waldme1ster
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Posted: 02/22/2015 at 8:06am |
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Thanx for the info. I really like OSEs style, and his way of gripping the bat is the basis of it IMO.
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BRS
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Posted: 02/22/2015 at 12:09pm |
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Thanks to OP and BHMan, this is really interesting.
Right now it is pretty uncomfortable to hold the paddle that way just sitting here, so it would definitely feel weird playing. But tucking the handle against the thumb muscle may fix a problem I have with the blade shifting around too much during play. On the BH thumb position -- does anything change with your other fingers when you raise the thumb for BH, or everything else stays the same. That was completely new to me.
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illinichamps
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Posted: 02/22/2015 at 12:48pm |
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BRS, it is a bit uncomfortable.. I have rather large hands (can palm a bball no problem)
so my thumb goes slightly over the slant and touches the rubber.. don't think that is a problem. But tucking the handle against the thumb muscle is the overall point here. Just adjust and see what is comfortable but keep in mind the overall point. And yeah having the blade shifting is really really bad.. thats something you really want to avoid. on the bh, have you ever tried a bh dominant grip? changes everything.. your bh stroke gets to be so much more consistent and a lot more topspin.. this is not a bh dominant grip but it is very close to it.. most pros and very good players change grips from bh and fh.. timo boll does it a lot when he plays.. he doesn't even think about it its so natural to him. btw this is another video of fzd's grip.. similar to the one that has the thumb on the slant grip.. enjoy! Edited by illinichamps - 02/22/2015 at 12:52pm |
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mr.ishaq
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Posted: 02/23/2015 at 5:12am |
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Thank you op and bh-man. this post is really enlightening
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"I do not have any idols. I am my own idol." World Champion Zhang Jike
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NextLevel
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Posted: 03/17/2015 at 10:04am |
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Ben Larcombe of experttabletennis discusses this extensively. It fits in very well on this thread. I think it will help as it needs no translation for many of us :
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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jrscatman
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Posted: 03/17/2015 at 12:56pm |
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Thanks for the video, Nextlevel. I had to stop watching it....I'm happy with my grip and I'm afraid some his experiments might creep into my mind and screw up what I currently like.
But if you're looking for your grip - he certainly goes a lot of variations.
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AgentHEX
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Posted: 03/17/2015 at 3:32pm |
I grip almost exactly as in the vid. If you angle the racket handle parallel w/ the forearm as parallel as possible (so the sweet spot is nearly in-line with the forearm) and use a "FH grip" it has the ancillary benefit of creating an overall angle w/ body such that you can easily hit the opponent BH corner while still square to the table/shot. This allows you (or me at least) to play RPB penhold exactly the same as SH by only altering the hand grip without changing feet positions. If you further exploit pressure similarities in grip, like thumb against side of blade in PH and fingertips against same spot in SH, plus index finger curled against "slant" & face of blade in PH and same for thumb in SH, transitioning between the two becomes very easy because the little intuitive nuances in grip are shared. Edited by AgentHEX - 03/17/2015 at 3:34pm |
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NextLevel
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Posted: 03/17/2015 at 3:56pm |
He discusses the correct grip but shows how he arrived at it. I posted it on this thread because I went through similar steps as Larcombe, and this thread and recent work on rebuilding my strokes led me to his conclusions. I was already USATT 1700/1800 when a coach told me in Nigeria that I was using a handle grip and that this was why I lacked touch. People can make up for all kinds of issues when they are coached as children but it is harder as a n adult. One of the things I stress when I coach is that I want my students to be relaxed. One advantage of the grip that Ben (andI use) is that it reduces tension in the arm. I think that whatever people think about their current grip, they will learn a lot from watching Ben's video unless they had a high level and extremely astute coach explain it all to them already (like a Richard Prause). |
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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AgentHEX
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Posted: 03/17/2015 at 4:04pm |
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I skipped through the vid and he's transitioning in the exact opposite direction of what I'm talking about above (and the OP). The neutral position he's ostensibly advocating of chocking up on the thumb/index gap significantly reduces wrist/hand flexibility and thus requires more body adjustment in play.
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NextLevel
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Posted: 03/17/2015 at 6:27pm |
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I don't understand Korean but I find that hard to believe (that OP video and Larcombe are in conflict). In any case, grips are the area of expertise of everyone. If Timo Boll can succeed with his grips as did Seemiller, then anyone can as long as they have an idea of how they can use the grip effectively.
Edited by NextLevel - 03/17/2015 at 6:29pm |
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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AgentHEX
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Posted: 03/17/2015 at 6:43pm |
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The basic characteristic of how much to choke up on the thumb gap is in direct conflict between the two vids.
I don't think it make any substantive diff in end results but it does tend to change which shots you're prone to take. Someone who grip changes like Boll will be inclined to take more shots in the overlap area because it becomes easier. |
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NextLevel
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Posted: 03/17/2015 at 6:50pm |
Edited by NextLevel - 03/17/2015 at 6:53pm |
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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AgentHEX
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Posted: 03/17/2015 at 7:10pm |
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Most players tend to take shots that come more easily, and by definition FH/BH grips produce favorable angle for their respective sides, it would be difficult to argue otherwise.
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NextLevel
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Posted: 03/17/2015 at 7:22pm |
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Larcombe's proposed grip is pretty neutral but was there something you were just trying to say about grips that I may have missed?
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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AgentHEX
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Posted: 03/17/2015 at 7:32pm |
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My main point is pretty simple: akin to styles of play/etc, styles of grip aren't necessarily better/worse overall but may be better/worse for certain things.
I believe the OP type of grip is a good balance of intuitive power (sweet spot in-line with spine of the swing) and easy adjustment for fh/bh angles. |
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NextLevel
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Posted: 03/17/2015 at 8:01pm |
I see. I guess to some people that isn't obvious. |
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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AgentHEX
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Posted: 03/17/2015 at 8:10pm |
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The thread wouldn't exist if it were and you wouldn't be posting in it.
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illinichamps wrote: