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Has Tenergy been surpassed?

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Ray View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ray Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/26/2015 at 11:00am
Most of us here are making the science of this sport, especially of TT-equipment.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hans Regenkurt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/26/2015 at 11:01am
The clearest and decisive indication that Tenergy has been surpassed is when we will see 80% of the pros playing with something other than Tenergy.

So the answer is not.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NoRema Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/26/2015 at 11:02am
Tenergy just has a different feel than other rubbers. if the way you play makes another rubber FEEL better, then it's probably been surpassed for you.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JimT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/26/2015 at 11:40am
Originally posted by patrickhrdlicka patrickhrdlicka wrote:

I am fully in the P7 camp. Fantastic rubber. I will soon be testing Tenzone Ultra SF, which I have very high expectations for.


It is indeed a very good rubber but very heavy - about 49-50-51 g weight of the cut sheet. That's way too much, if you ask me. But for some players, who are OK with heavier setups, it would be OK.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JimT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/26/2015 at 11:43am
Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

Actually, the thing I don't like about some of the ESN rubbers compared to Tenergy 05 is they are too fast to my tastes, anyway.


For me it's not even the speed per se, but the second derivative - that is, acceleration. The catapult effect in ESN tensors comes on, usually, so abruptly and often unexpected... that really bugs me, especially in over-the-table play, shorter placement shots etc.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote cole_ely Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/26/2015 at 12:12pm
too bouncy and too unpredictable in terms of when the ball is going to sink and pop out.  Tenergy pushes flat and true like a tuned chinese rubber.  ESN rubbers tend to pop and float the ball.

That's why I always say tenergy is the best of the expensive rubbers.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LOOPMEISTER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/26/2015 at 12:17pm
Originally posted by Hans Regenkurt Hans Regenkurt wrote:

The clearest and decisive indication that Tenergy has been surpassed is when we will see 80% of the pros playing with something other than Tenergy.

So the answer is not.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kakapo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/26/2015 at 12:57pm
Butterfly doesn't need to develop special rubbers for the poly ball like other brands are trying to do....
The pros keep on using tenergies..........
No need to look for another evidence.

P7 is great, razka are not bad, xiom omega are good ones but.......tenergies are better.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote slevin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/26/2015 at 2:03pm
Originally posted by cole_ely cole_ely wrote:

Tenergy pushes flat and true like a tuned chinese rubber.  ESN rubbers tend to pop and float the ball.

So are you saying that, in comparison to MX-P, Omega V Tour, Rakza X, Tenergy is like a tuned chinese rubber and that those 3 ESN variants tend to pop and float the ball on pushes?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote berkeleydoctor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/26/2015 at 2:08pm
no love for T25? i've only tried 05, 05-fx, 25, and 25-fx, but i found that 25-fx was much easier to play with on the BH. hoping to try 64 soon for my FH

but i do agree with others, i've been playing with Omega V euro for about 2 months now and it doesnt "feel" the same as tenergy, where as other ESN rubbers feel similar to omega V euro (like bluefire, JP series, etc.)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote adishorul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/26/2015 at 2:10pm
Off topic
Many people have talked about p7 being an impresive rubber, is the any similarity with vega pro that I am liking so much (very high throw, insensitive to incoming spin)? Thanks.

Edited by adishorul - 02/26/2015 at 2:11pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote asifgunz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/26/2015 at 2:32pm
Originally posted by cole_ely cole_ely wrote:

too bouncy and too unpredictable in terms of when the ball is going to sink and pop out.  Tenergy pushes flat and true like a tuned chinese rubber.  ESN rubbers tend to pop and float the ball.

That's why I always say tenergy is the best of the expensive rubbers.


i've been pushing for the past 1.3 years with the same OMEGA IV PRO.  different feel? that i can understand.
I never had a problem with pushing. In fact I let the rubber do the work, just hold and point.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote unstopabl3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/26/2015 at 2:38pm
Originally posted by Clarence247 Clarence247 wrote:

Originally posted by wankhao wankhao wrote:

I have to repeat myself. Razka 7 on my BH put my opponents to bed with a nightmare.

This is in fact what I use on my BH and again - despite 12 or so hrs of Tenergy practice / match play - I stuck to Rakza 7. It does everything the tenergy could do, possibly gives more spin on heavy pushes and blocks much much better... opening, aggressive spin, placement etc....are all superb so I cannot point out any weakness of R7 on the BH.


Have you tried rakza 7 soft or rakza 9 on either hands???

What would you guys recommend on a weaker backhand for mostly blocks and pushes??? Rakza 7, Rakza 7 soft or Rakza 9???

I currently have rakza 7 soft on my forehand and I find it to be a bit slower, although it's control is good. So thinking to switch it to my weaker backhand and add Rakza 7 on my stronger FH.

On topic: 

I've only ever tried Rakza and Mark V sheets, I don't think anybody below 2000 really needs to spend more than this.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote unstopabl3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/26/2015 at 2:41pm
Originally posted by cole_ely cole_ely wrote:

too bouncy and too unpredictable in terms of when the ball is going to sink and pop out.  Tenergy pushes flat and true like a tuned chinese rubber.  ESN rubbers tend to pop and float the ball.

That's why I always say tenergy is the best of the expensive rubbers.

So you are saying Tenergy is the most consistent and controlled rubber once you get used to it???
And amongst the Tenergies, which one is the most consistent and controlled??? Tenergy 05???
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote asifgunz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/26/2015 at 2:53pm
Originally posted by unstopabl3 unstopabl3 wrote:

Originally posted by Clarence247 Clarence247 wrote:

Originally posted by wankhao wankhao wrote:

I have to repeat myself. Razka 7 on my BH put my opponents to bed with a nightmare.

This is in fact what I use on my BH and again - despite 12 or so hrs of Tenergy practice / match play - I stuck to Rakza 7. It does everything the tenergy could do, possibly gives more spin on heavy pushes and blocks much much better... opening, aggressive spin, placement etc....are all superb so I cannot point out any weakness of R7 on the BH.


Have you tried rakza 7 soft or rakza 9 on either hands???

What would you guys recommend on a weaker backhand for mostly blocks and pushes??? Rakza 7, Rakza 7 soft or Rakza 9???

I currently have rakza 7 soft on my forehand and I find it to be a bit slower, although it's control is good. So thinking to switch it to my weaker backhand and add Rakza 7 on my stronger FH.

On topic: 

I've only ever tried Rakza and Mark V sheets, I don't think anybody below 2000 really needs to spend more than this.



I've tried Razka 9. Way too soft imo. You can push and block great with Omega IV pro, and loop.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BRS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/26/2015 at 2:54pm
Originally posted by unstopabl3 unstopabl3 wrote:

I've only ever tried Rakza and Mark V sheets, I don't think anybody below 2000 really needs to spend more than this. 

Needs to and wants to are two different things.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matt Pimple Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/26/2015 at 3:10pm
Originally posted by unstopabl3 unstopabl3 wrote:

What would you guys recommend on a weaker backhand for mostly blocks and pushes??? Rakza 7, Rakza 7 soft or Rakza 9???
Originally posted by unstopabl3 unstopabl3 wrote:

I've only ever tried Rakza and Mark V sheets, I don't think anybody below 2000 really needs to spend more than this.
So you do not know what to put on your backhand and you only ever tried Rakza and Mark V, yet you are telling us we do not need Tenergy?! Shocked
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote unstopabl3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/26/2015 at 3:16pm
Originally posted by Matt Pimple Matt Pimple wrote:

Originally posted by unstopabl3 unstopabl3 wrote:

What would you guys recommend on a weaker backhand for mostly blocks and pushes??? Rakza 7, Rakza 7 soft or Rakza 9???
Originally posted by unstopabl3 unstopabl3 wrote:

I've only ever tried Rakza and Mark V sheets, I don't think anybody below 2000 really needs to spend more than this.
So you do not know what to put on your backhand and you only ever tried Rakza and Mark V, yet you are telling us we do not need Tenergy?! Shocked

Did I say that or even imply that? Don't know why people like to start an argument and try to prove their superiority.

I simply stated my opinion, you either agree with it or you don't. You purchase and use whatever the heck you want bro.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cole_ely Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/26/2015 at 3:17pm
Originally posted by unstopabl3 unstopabl3 wrote:

Originally posted by cole_ely cole_ely wrote:

too bouncy and too unpredictable in terms of when the ball is going to sink and pop out.  Tenergy pushes flat and true like a tuned chinese rubber.  ESN rubbers tend to pop and float the ball.

That's why I always say tenergy is the best of the expensive rubbers.

So you are saying Tenergy is the most consistent and controlled rubber once you get used to it???
And amongst the Tenergies, which one is the most consistent and controlled??? Tenergy 05???

I'm saying what little I've tried tenergy, it's more linear and predictable than the esn counterparts.  I tried acuda not long ago and it was good and linear, but not as bouncy or fast...didn't have the kick.

As to types, I couldn't generate enough spin on serves with the 06 (that's the harder kind right).  The second time I tried the softer 05 (is that right?), I found it still predictable in it's deformation, but a lot easier to serve with.  That was an excellent rubber, imo.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lineup32 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/26/2015 at 3:49pm
FWIW been trying  ESN rubbers on my newer blade: Cypress one ply 159mm x 151, weight  82 grams. 

Rasant 2.0 FH/BH  nice rubbers, blade weight Plus cut rubbers 185
MX-P    2.0 FH/Rakza X BH, blade weight plus cut rubbers         180
P7        2.0 FH Rasant Grip BH, blade weight plus cut rubbers    175

Best set up to date is the P7/RGrip:
1.  RGrip way better then Rakza X, 
2.  P7, best serve spin, reverse pendulum serve has unreal spin and movement, right hand pendulum had low bounce tight spacing, great backspin & sidespin, loops I need to adjust racket angle not as easy to lift BS but topspin drives were strong, excellent control.   
3.  All three set ups have a similar feel but the P7/Grip setup is the most dynamic 
4.  Cost difference between P7 setup and Tenergy: $48.00


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote slevin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/26/2015 at 4:00pm
Originally posted by cole_ely cole_ely wrote:


I'm saying what little I've tried tenergy, it's more linear and predictable than the esn counterparts.  I tried acuda not long ago and it was good and linear, but not as bouncy or fast...didn't have the kick.

As to types, I couldn't generate enough spin on serves with the 06 (that's the harder kind right).  The second time I tried the softer 05 (is that right?), I found it still predictable in it's deformation, but a lot easier to serve with.  That was an excellent rubber, imo.


06??

So, cole_ely, what new-generation ESN rubbers have you tried playing with (that you base your assertion on)?

Also, when are the 38deg Big Dippers coming? :)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AgentHEX Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/26/2015 at 5:29pm
>too bouncy and too unpredictable in terms of when the ball is going to sink and pop out.  Tenergy pushes flat and true like a tuned chinese rubber.  ESN rubbers tend to pop and float the ball.

>For me it's not even the speed per se, but the second derivative - that is, acceleration. The catapult effect in ESN tensors comes on, usually, so abruptly and often unexpected... that really bugs me, especially in over-the-table play, shorter placement shots etc.

The evident difference in the material itself is that Tenergy has quite a bit of "stick" for a non-chinese rubber, same as you get with Yinhe's or such after a bit. There's that gummy-ish feel if you dig a finger into the topsheet and work it around. In a way Tenergy is basically faster version of those rubbers & vice versa.

This property seems to help increase the "margin for acceptable shots" and in a sense make your play appear to have bit more finesse than it might. It's not so much ESN are unpredictable, just punish more for execution outside its comfortable range; ie bit less versatile if you will. If your play tends to be in that range already then it matters less.


Edited by AgentHEX - 02/26/2015 at 5:32pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AgentHEX Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/26/2015 at 5:29pm
Originally posted by slevin slevin wrote:

Originally posted by cole_ely cole_ely wrote:


I'm saying what little I've tried tenergy, it's more linear and predictable than the esn counterparts.  I tried acuda not long ago and it was good and linear, but not as bouncy or fast...didn't have the kick.

As to types, I couldn't generate enough spin on serves with the 06 (that's the harder kind right).  The second time I tried the softer 05 (is that right?), I found it still predictable in it's deformation, but a lot easier to serve with.  That was an excellent rubber, imo.


06??

So, cole_ely, what new-generation ESN rubbers have you tried playing with (that you base your assertion on)?

Also, when are the 38deg Big Dippers coming? :)


I think he's talking about 05/05fx.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matt Pimple Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/26/2015 at 5:34pm
Originally posted by AgentHEX AgentHEX wrote:

I think he's talking about 05/05fx.
My guess is he was talking about 64 and 05.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 1dennistt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/26/2015 at 5:36pm
Interesting Thread

I used Tenergy 05 for quite a while, then switched over to Bluefire M2, and have been quite happy.  Recently I've been in EJ mode.  Tried Big Dipper, Rasant Grip, Razka X, and EL-P, oh and Tenergy 80.
I could play with any of these after a short adjustment period, but none of them have anything to make me want to replace my Bluefire.  It simply works well for my strokes, and I'm comfortable using it, even twiddling and using it on the backhand is easy.  

Each of these has it's own strengths, and if I couldn't get the M2 anymore, I would just pick up one of these and move forward.  If I were only going to loop everything I'd probably choose 05 or Big Dipper.  As I've gotten older this is less advantageous for me (I'm slower and don't get into position like I used to).  So these other rubbers bring other options to the table and for me are simply more forgiving on a lot of shots.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Knuckle Ball Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/26/2015 at 11:02pm
Originally posted by 1dennistt 1dennistt wrote:

Interesting Thread
(I'm slower and don't get into position like I used to).  So these other rubbers bring other options to the table and for me are simply more forgiving on a lot of shots.
Well said, same holds for me.  I have tried the Calibras, Acudas, Magna, IQ, 5Q, Killerspin, 05 and 05FX. I found Andro Hexer HD just right for my strokes.


Edited by Knuckle Ball - 02/26/2015 at 11:03pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cole_ely Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/27/2015 at 1:35am
Originally posted by Matt Pimple Matt Pimple wrote:

Originally posted by AgentHEX AgentHEX wrote:

I think he's talking about 05/05fx.
My guess is he was talking about 64 and 05.
this is correct
i tried razka not long ago...that counts right?  I tried a xiom or two, but that's japanese made, right?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/27/2015 at 2:02am
You know Tenergy has been surpassed when cole figures out where Xiom sources its rubbers. Tongue
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stavros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/27/2015 at 3:17am
As soon as you unpack Tenergy , you see the difference. 
You touch Tenergy and it is like a fabric . All the other rubbers are like paper , domed  or under-domed etc.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TurboZ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/27/2015 at 4:27am
Originally posted by cole_ely cole_ely wrote:

Originally posted by Matt Pimple Matt Pimple wrote:

Originally posted by AgentHEX AgentHEX wrote:

I think he's talking about 05/05fx.

My guess is he was talking about 64 and 05.

this is correct
i tried razka not long ago...that counts right?  I tried a xiom or two, but that's japanese made, right?


Both Rakza and Xiom are made in Germany.

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