Alex Table Tennis - MyTableTennis.NET Homepage
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Shake Grip
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login
tabletennis11.com

Shake Grip

 Post Reply Post Reply
Author
mickd View Drop Down
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator


Joined: 04/27/2014
Location: Japan
Status: Offline
Points: 1231
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mickd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Shake Grip
    Posted: 03/01/2015 at 6:54am
Recently I've been trying to fix my grip. This is what I've been trying to fit it to.

Forehand Side:
Forehand Side

Backhand Side:
Backhand Side

However, I received some advice from someone who is much better than I am at my local club. What he told me seems to be very different to some of the things I've read online, and what I've seen other people use. So, I wanted to ask everyone what they thought.

This is the forehand side he told me to use:
New Forehand Side
The main point you'll notice is the position of the thumb. He said it is better to leave a gap of about 1 finger's length like shown in the picture.

I asked him why, and he said that it was easier to transition to and from this position, which he said was good for backhand strokes:
New Forehand Side Thumb Up
He said having your thumb like how I had it above would require more of a movement to transition to this.

He also mentioned the backhand should have up to 1 finger's length of distance where I have marked in red:
New Backhand Side
I asked him why, and he said this gives you more control, while still not impeding on your backhand.

What do you all think? Should I work towards the grip he suggested? Or was what I had originally better?

I should also mention that I'm playing in Japan, so there is a bit of a language barrier. Hopefully I didn't misunderstand him.

Thank you.
Back to Top
Sponsored Links


Back to Top
Jerem View Drop Down
Super Member
Super Member
Avatar

Joined: 01/18/2012
Location: Poland
Status: Offline
Points: 143
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jerem Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/01/2015 at 7:23am
IMO it's correct grip for advanced topspin play. 
He might be right :) 
Back to Top
vvk1 View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member
Avatar

Joined: 11/14/2009
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 1925
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vvk1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/01/2015 at 7:42am
Looks like your friend has suggested that you make your grip more neutral instead of being FH-oriented.
Back to Top
NoRema View Drop Down
Silver Member
Silver Member
Avatar

Joined: 02/04/2015
Location: On The Table
Status: Offline
Points: 564
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NoRema Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/01/2015 at 8:12am
have the face of your thumb facing the rubber though. when the side of the thumb is touching the rubber instead, it is more difficult to put pressure with your thumb down on the rubber. you will lack power when later finger pressure is important.


Click the picture for feedback ^
Back to Top
king_pong View Drop Down
Silver Member
Silver Member
Avatar

Joined: 06/29/2010
Location: Minneapolis
Status: Offline
Points: 871
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote king_pong Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/01/2015 at 4:35pm
Your friend is a righteous dude.  He's giving you tips on how to keep your grip more neutral so you can repel from your backhand wing more easily.

There's a great article on this I found a few years ago over at TTmaster.com, where they get into the discussion of shake hand grip and examine how a few pros hold their rackets --


"The grip:

The grip is called the ‘shakehand grip’ because you hold the blade like you would shake a person’s hand. If you’re a right handed player lift your blade in the air with your left hand. Make sure the handle is pointing downwards.  
With your free hand you should shake hands with your blade. Your grip should  about the same as the pictures below.

Variations always happen, and that’s completely normal. Let’s take a look at some of the shakehand pro’s. Notice they always hold their blade a little different, and usually that reflects a personal style.
Kong Linghui had a quite backhand orientated game, whilst Wang Liqin is all about hitting big forehands. Let’s take a look at their grip. First two pictures are Kong’s grip, the last two are from Liqin. In the end it comes down to how comfortable you feel!

[Kong Linghui's grip]


[Wang Liqin's grip]

Stiga Infinity VPS (Master): fh/bh - Nittaku Hammond CR max
Back to Top
Leftyy View Drop Down
Super Member
Super Member
Avatar

Joined: 02/14/2015
Location: Europa
Status: Offline
Points: 210
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Leftyy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/01/2015 at 4:39pm
The grip is very personal in my opinion, I would use the grip that feels the most natural for you. Many pros change the grip during the ball and if you are able to do that in time there is no problem. 
Back to Top
Waldme1ster View Drop Down
Member
Member


Joined: 09/22/2014
Location: BRD
Status: Offline
Points: 32
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Waldme1ster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/01/2015 at 5:00pm
I'm completely with your club mate. Key is to press the side, NOT the face of your thumb against the rubber to avoid backhand grip. Best compromise for "neutral" grip if you  want only very little changes during rallies. see also Mizutanis grip...
Back to Top
mickd View Drop Down
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator


Joined: 04/27/2014
Location: Japan
Status: Offline
Points: 1231
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mickd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/01/2015 at 7:08pm
Thanks everyone. I find that most videos about grip don't go into enough detail since they're targeting complete beginners.

It'll probably take me a few weeks to make the change, and a few months to really make it second nature.

Cheers.
Back to Top
doraemon View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member


Joined: 05/14/2007
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 1738
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote doraemon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/01/2015 at 7:40pm
1st picture (thumb position) vs 3rd picture (thumb position), I prefer the 3rd picture.  Your grip is more relaxed that way.  When you have thumb position like 1st picture, your wrist is a bit more tense compared to that in 3rd picture.  It's not wrong though, because during hard FH shot, your thumb can automatically (without you realize it) move to the position as pictured in 1st picture.

Regarding index finger, I prefer 2nd picture.  It is more relaxed that way and does not choke the blade.

So my grip is like in 2nd and 3rd picture.  Neutral grip and very relaxed.
Blade : Just wood
FH : black rubber
BH : red rubber
Back to Top
berndt_mann View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member
Avatar

Joined: 02/02/2015
Location: Tucson, Arizona
Status: Offline
Points: 1719
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote berndt_mann Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/01/2015 at 10:21pm
For most table tennis players, I would recommend the so-called "neutral" shakehand grip, in which the forefinger lies flat on the rubber on the bh side, roughly perpendicular to the handle unless you have large fingers and on the fh side the thumb is either slightly bent and gently touching the middle knuckle of the index finger or it lies, as in Kong Linghui's grip, on the bottom of the rubber next to the handle.  Unless you are an advanced player or able to play effectively by shifting your grip, I would recommend keeping the same grip for all strokes, except of course for the pendulum grip serve.

If you are a penhold player, and employ the reverse penhold backhand, the most stable grip IMO is with the thumb and forefinger gently pinching one another on the forehand side, and the index, fourth, and little fingers on the bh side curved slightly to the right for a right-handed player, the pads of the first knuckle joints of those fingers pressing with varying degrees of firmness on to your rubber , depending on the speed of the stroke you employ.  This grip may compromise the penhold forehand a little bit, but it is very stable, does not tire the fingers on the backhand side, and provides stability for a reliable reverse penhold backhand.


Edited by berndt_mann - 03/03/2015 at 3:12pm
bmann1942
Setup: Mark Bellamy Master Craftsman blade, British Leyland hard rubber
Back to Top
NextLevel View Drop Down
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
Avatar

Joined: 12/15/2011
Location: Somewhere Good
Status: Offline
Points: 14822
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/17/2015 at 7:51am
This is the "correct" neutral grip that makes grip switching almost moot (holding the bat primarily with your thumb and index finger and tucked into the gap between thumb and index finger).  As Ben points out, the grip should be really called a pinch grip and it relaxes more muscles in the arm if you get used to it.  Its funny hearing Ben Larcombe go through many of the issues that I have gone through the past year or even two, but some recent videos on the forum by illinichamp and BH Man's translation of an Oh Sang Eun video helped me close it out.

I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon
FH/BH: H3P 41D.
Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train...
Back to Top
AgentHEX View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member
Avatar

Joined: 12/14/2004
Location: Yo Mama
Status: Offline
Points: 1641
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AgentHEX Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/17/2015 at 3:43pm
Originally posted by king_pong king_pong wrote:

Your friend is a righteous dude.  He's giving you tips on how to keep your grip more neutral so you can repel from your backhand wing more easily.


I use a pretty FH oriented grip but if you tilt the handle so that it's more parallel to your forearm (and not choke up on the thumb/index-finger gap) it becomes very easy to adjust to BH grip pressure down on the thumb. You also get a sweet spot more in-line with your swing instead of somewhat above/in-front of it.

The problem with a neutral grip is that it's not the best for balls around the switch-over point since the block/counter angle isn't natural for either FH/BH in the overlap area.


Edited by AgentHEX - 03/17/2015 at 3:44pm
Back to Top
bschap View Drop Down
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: 01/07/2013
Status: Offline
Points: 394
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bschap Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/21/2017 at 6:52pm
People say use what's comfortable to you, but I notice every time I study a real player's grip I am amazed at two things...1 - how the index finger barely crosses halfway (sometimes less!) across the handle (I'd upload pics of Jike if I could), and 2 - How high up the handle they are gripping...so much handle visible below the hand...even on guys w big hands like Liqin.  I struggle with this...trying to grip the handle as high up as possible and with fingers crossing handle less.  I find immediate results on BH...aggressive blocking and flipping.  But I also find the edge of the blade starts to rub against middle joint of middle finger and now I am considering sanding like some people do.  Don't want to do it...held off...but now I think I have to.
Back to Top
bschap View Drop Down
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: 01/07/2013
Status: Offline
Points: 394
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bschap Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/21/2017 at 7:40pm
(ps - any advice on how to execute that sanding w minimal damage and maximal precision?)
Back to Top
aeoliah View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member


Joined: 11/18/2005
Location: Indonesia
Status: Offline
Points: 3215
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote aeoliah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/21/2017 at 9:59pm
Do it bit by bit by using a finer sandpaper, like grit 320 or 400. If you use a coarser sandpaper, it will "bite" more into the wood.

Member of the Single Ply Hinoki Club
Viscaria Super ALC C-Pen
Rasanter C48




Back to Top
NextLevel View Drop Down
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
Avatar

Joined: 12/15/2011
Location: Somewhere Good
Status: Offline
Points: 14822
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/30/2017 at 12:04am
A good video from Pingskills to add to the collection of grip advice:

I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon
FH/BH: H3P 41D.
Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train...
Back to Top
mickd View Drop Down
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator


Joined: 04/27/2014
Location: Japan
Status: Offline
Points: 1231
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mickd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/30/2017 at 9:18pm
Thanks NL.

It's very interesting seeing how there are two different theories with finger grip strength. One with more pressure on the pinky and ring fingers and one which uses the thumb and index finger to grip.

I've come to accept whatever feels natural when I do the shots. In general though, I'm still aiming for the index+thumb grip, but during rallies that changes a lot.

I hope this thread continues to help others who are experimenting with their grips :)
Back to Top
rocketman222 View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member


Joined: 01/06/2007
Location: Walnut Creek,CA
Status: Offline
Points: 1152
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote rocketman222 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/31/2017 at 12:15am
I have heard something of a hybrid advice from a coach, his advice was 
  • For Non-Push strokes use alex/pingskills advice to use the last 2 fingers to apply pressure.
  • For Pushing strokes use the index finger + thumb to apply pressure.


Back to Top
NextLevel View Drop Down
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
Avatar

Joined: 12/15/2011
Location: Somewhere Good
Status: Offline
Points: 14822
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/31/2017 at 1:10am
Originally posted by rocketman222 rocketman222 wrote:

I have heard something of a hybrid advice from a coach, his advice was 
  • For Non-Push strokes use alex/pingskills advice to use the last 2 fingers to apply pressure.
  • For Pushing strokes use the index finger + thumb to apply pressure.



To be honest, I think it is more complicated than that.  The main reason why I posted this video was that many people treat the lower two fingers as the poor step child of the grip.  I think in fact, if you want to support a standard neutral grip, you need to establish their position first. The index finger and thumb are by comparison much more versatile in their flexibility.
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon
FH/BH: H3P 41D.
Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train...
Back to Top
rocketman222 View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member


Joined: 01/06/2007
Location: Walnut Creek,CA
Status: Offline
Points: 1152
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rocketman222 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/31/2017 at 1:15am
Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Originally posted by rocketman222 rocketman222 wrote:

I have heard something of a hybrid advice from a coach, his advice was 
  • For Non-Push strokes use alex/pingskills advice to use the last 2 fingers to apply pressure.
  • For Pushing strokes use the index finger + thumb to apply pressure.



To be honest, I think it is more complicated than that.  The main reason why I posted this video was that many people treat the lower two fingers as the poor step child of the grip.  I think in fact, if you want to support a standard neutral grip, you need to establish their position first. The index finger and thumb are by comparison much more versatile in their flexibility.

Oh yeah, I was just quoting one of the pieces of advice that I had heard and made somewhat of a sense to me back then, but definitely way more complex than this simple if-else.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.01
Copyright ©2001-2018 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.297 seconds.

Become a Fan on Facebook Follow us on Twitter Web Wiz News
Forum Home | Go to the Forums | Forum Help | Disclaimer

MyTableTennis.NET is the trading name of Alex Table Tennis Ltd.

Copyright ©2003-2024 Alex Table Tennis Ltd. All rights reserved.