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Cheaper rubbers that can compete with ESN |
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slevin
Premier Member Joined: 03/15/2012 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 3602 |
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I'd totally buy a rubber called "Mofo". "Bad MoFo" would be even better!
Edited by slevin - 03/04/2015 at 4:00pm |
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asifgunz
Gold Member Joined: 09/15/2013 Location: Queens NY Status: Offline Points: 1448 |
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It would probably have a softer sponge and come factory tuned to f**k s**t up. |
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"I do not have any idols. I am my own idol." - Zhang Jike Feedback: http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=71761&PN=1#905629 |
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asifgunz
Gold Member Joined: 09/15/2013 Location: Queens NY Status: Offline Points: 1448 |
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esn price has dropped significantly. For example Xiom Omega IV is available for 34 shipped and Sigma 1 Euro at t11 is 26 USD atm. |
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"I do not have any idols. I am my own idol." - Zhang Jike Feedback: http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=71761&PN=1#905629 |
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Clarence247
Silver Member Joined: 02/11/2014 Location: Malta Status: Offline Points: 557 |
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Appreciated, this can be good info for those interested in SP
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OSP Virtuoso (Off-)
MX-P (Max) Mantra M (Max) Backup: Yasaka Extra Offensive, Nittaku H3 Prov 729-802 SP |
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AgentHEX
Gold Member Joined: 12/14/2004 Location: Yo Mama Status: Offline Points: 1641 |
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That some significant discounts can exist on a few samples doesn't change the fact it's generally second most expensive, which doesn't translate to cheap. |
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Clarence247
Silver Member Joined: 02/11/2014 Location: Malta Status: Offline Points: 557 |
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So far amidst the multitude of useless derailing posts we have also had some good suggestions - here is the list that has emerged: Only the ones which would not be a disadvantage to play with at a good level (let's say 1900-2200) are included.
Nittaku Flyatt (Japan) Fastarc S1 (Germany) (but i guess this is ESN?) DHS Tinarc 5 - Yinhe Big Dipper - DHS TG3-60 LKT Rapid Speed - have seen some older but very high level club players in eastern Europe with this and the other LKT rubbers mentioned below LKT Red Diamond LKT Pro XP Sanwei T-88i Probably the most interesting of the lot are probably the Tin Arc 5 and the Big Dipper.
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OSP Virtuoso (Off-)
MX-P (Max) Mantra M (Max) Backup: Yasaka Extra Offensive, Nittaku H3 Prov 729-802 SP |
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AgentHEX
Gold Member Joined: 12/14/2004 Location: Yo Mama Status: Offline Points: 1641 |
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>
Only the ones which would not be a disadvantage to play with at a good level (let's say 1900-2200) are included.
The two best players in the world now use tuned H3 both sides (boosted Big Dipper will be close). |
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JimT
Premier Member Joined: 10/26/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 14602 |
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A player looking for cheaper rubbers that can compete with ESN (and Tenergy, I assume). Hmm... that reminds me of someone. Oh yeah... myself.
Anyways, in the last 2-3 years I tried a bunch of those. Among the better ones were Yinhe Mars II 40-41 degrees Gambler Outlaw Soft KTL Red Diamond (Black Power) Mechanical Naturally I am only listing cheap ones. They are not really tensors (thank goodness), so do not expect same crazy catapult that you get from many ESN tensors. But they are not straight linear rubbers, and in speed/spin/control they can definitely compete with ESN/Tenergy at the level of under 2000 USATT. |
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Single Ply Hinoki Club, Founding Member
Say "no!" to expensive table tennis equipment. Please... |
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asifgunz
Gold Member Joined: 09/15/2013 Location: Queens NY Status: Offline Points: 1448 |
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Not samples. The t11 is on sale, but if you check over on the german websites, you'll see the same price range as that I've mentioned. Shipping isn't as high as it once used to be. |
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"I do not have any idols. I am my own idol." - Zhang Jike Feedback: http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=71761&PN=1#905629 |
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Ray
Gold Member Joined: 02/28/2012 Location: Online Status: Offline Points: 1845 |
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I don't get what your point is. In short, there are Tenergy and H(ype)3 National as the most expensive, "top" rubbers. Next, there are various ESN and Japan tensioned rubbers. Many of them have some of Tenergy properties and may be considered as Tenergy alternatives, more or less. Then, you have various Chinese rubbers, usually the cheapest and in the class of their own. Obsolete post speed-glue and SG rubbers are not so popular and as such not worth to be mentioned. Now, you can find diverse ESN rubbers at various prices, say from 22-48eur. Tenergy are always the same price, around 58±2eur, Hype 3 Nat are even more expensive (and especially "for CNT"). Chinese rubbers are the cheapest, in proportion with their properties, QC and durability. So, ESN and Japanese tensioned rubbers are often the best in terms of price/performance ratio, at least for non-pro players. Newer DHS rubbers are close to the Euro/Jap tension rubbers in price, I am not sure about their performance and QC. Conclusion: you almost get what you pay for: with Chinese rubbers you get more, with ESN Euro/Jap almost the same and with Tenergy/H3 Nat less. In general, apart from cheap Chinese, TT rubbers are mostly overpriced. Edited by Ray - 03/05/2015 at 2:14am |
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AgentHEX
Gold Member Joined: 12/14/2004 Location: Yo Mama Status: Offline Points: 1641 |
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> I don't get what your point is.
The topic is cheaper rubbers that can compete with ESN. Someone mentioned ESN is cheap, which it really isn't given it's generally the second most expensive rubber out there. Also, the best chinese rubbers are not much slower than older/mediocre ESN's. The gap is only more evident because chinese rubbers tend to have better grip (more akin to Tenergy) whereas ESNs tend to go for all out speed, but grip is often a compromise worth choosing. |
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AgentHEX
Gold Member Joined: 12/14/2004 Location: Yo Mama Status: Offline Points: 1641 |
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Ok, I looked on first two results for german TT stores in google, contra.de and schoeler-micke.tabletennis-shop.de, and selected the most german possible manufacturers donic/andro. The acuda/bluefire/rasant are all 40-50euro. |
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asifgunz
Gold Member Joined: 09/15/2013 Location: Queens NY Status: Offline Points: 1448 |
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you're not looking in the right place. If i fail to find a decent backhand rubber, Ill purchase rasant Grip for 32 usd and show you the receipt. |
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"I do not have any idols. I am my own idol." - Zhang Jike Feedback: http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=71761&PN=1#905629 |
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AgentHEX
Gold Member Joined: 12/14/2004 Location: Yo Mama Status: Offline Points: 1641 |
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I'm not insinuating you're fibbing about this or whatever, I just haven't seen any place regularly selling newer ESNs for <$40, esp shipped. Rasant Grip is 40euro at tt11 which is a cheap place to buy.
Frankly $100 for rubbers that a typical weekend warrior can use for a year (<$1/hr of play) isn't that much in the first world. The real savings are when you really want to try dozen different rubbers than $50 here and there add up. |
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the_theologian
Premier Member Joined: 01/11/2009 Location: U.S. Status: Offline Points: 3895 |
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Appelgren Allplay ST / Vega Europe max
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AgentHEX
Gold Member Joined: 12/14/2004 Location: Yo Mama Status: Offline Points: 1641 |
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You have pay for shipping from there whereas most US places are free shipping for $50, so the savings is really a few dollars.
-- No, my mistake, they seem to offer free shipping for those. Edited by AgentHEX - 03/05/2015 at 6:39pm |
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debraj
Premier Member Joined: 06/04/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3369 |
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if you don't change your rubbers much... and can buy in bulk of 7/8 rubbers, from tabletennis11, or timtts; ... then even the most modern ESN rubbers like rasant grip or rhyzm -p would still cost $30 a sheet.
problem is changing rubbers.. and hence buying in pieces. |
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AgentHEX
Gold Member Joined: 12/14/2004 Location: Yo Mama Status: Offline Points: 1641 |
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The problem with getting more stuff to hit the next tier of discounts at places like tt11 is you end up with gear you didn't need and end up not really using. The cost of buying anything and only using it a few times is higher than sticking with Tenergy.
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popperlocker
Gold Member Joined: 03/24/2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1753 |
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Agree. Tenergy lasts so long, you will save tons of money and time in the long run. Also, Tenergy keeps very well in storage and on the racket. Esn rubbers like bluefire go dead unopened in the package after a few months. I've probably wasted thousands of dollars trying rubbers, if I was smarter, I would have bought a few sheets of Tenergy. So buying Tenergy will give you a 10x return on your investment(time and money). Ejaying on inconsistent crap that doesn't last/needs constant boosting, will destroy your wallet and free time.
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asifgunz
Gold Member Joined: 09/15/2013 Location: Queens NY Status: Offline Points: 1448 |
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you tenergy fanboys mean to tell me that those things are durable? Hah! nice one. Almost had me for a second.
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"I do not have any idols. I am my own idol." - Zhang Jike Feedback: http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=71761&PN=1#905629 |
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AgentHEX
Gold Member Joined: 12/14/2004 Location: Yo Mama Status: Offline Points: 1641 |
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Tenergy seems to have bit more gradual dropoff whereas the heavier tuned ESNs can appear to fall off a cliff.
Regardless the rubbers are still playable after this unless maybe you're actually high level. I used to use Yinhe's (and will likely do so again w/ next replacement) and found them to be fairly durable. H3 also lasts a long time as long as you protect the surface. |
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JimT
Premier Member Joined: 10/26/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 14602 |
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Lately Tenergy is not really more durable than other comparable rubbers. |
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Single Ply Hinoki Club, Founding Member
Say "no!" to expensive table tennis equipment. Please... |
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Victor_the_cleaner
Gold Member Joined: 12/26/2014 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 1428 |
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Tenergy is most likely the most durable rubber on the market, barring some weird, fringe, shoe-like chinese..
The tenergy sponge retains kick forever. And the topsheet, while gradually losing grip, is still not slippery at the 6 month mark, and does not have the signature center wear and discoloration of ESN rubbers. ESN rubbers look totally different in the center in a week, not sure why. I don't even use tenergy any more, its too jumpy for me. So I am not really a fanboy. That doesn't mean I can deny the durability. Palio Blitz is the only decent chinese rubber that I know. The thing is, as of late, it costs more than Rhyzm, and that is completely unacceptable.
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AgentHEX
Gold Member Joined: 12/14/2004 Location: Yo Mama Status: Offline Points: 1641 |
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The yinhe maxtense or newer gen rubbers are basically Tenergy without the extra jumpiness.
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hookumsnivy
Gold Member Joined: 11/04/2010 Location: Syracuse, NY Status: Offline Points: 1599 |
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There's another solution. Get a few guys together to place an order. If you get 5 guys, hitting 30% should be easy enough.
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asifgunz
Gold Member Joined: 09/15/2013 Location: Queens NY Status: Offline Points: 1448 |
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Imo I wouldnt call it tenergy killers but I appreciate you jumping off the tenergy bandwagon. did you happen to use Saturn Pro? It's been called slow by a few people. Was wondering how would it compare to any of the tenergies. |
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"I do not have any idols. I am my own idol." - Zhang Jike Feedback: http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=71761&PN=1#905629 |
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AgentHEX
Gold Member Joined: 12/14/2004 Location: Yo Mama Status: Offline Points: 1641 |
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They're not tenergy killers since they're slower in comparison, but that's not a bad thing for less than elite players. That whole lineup is well suited to club level guys who want a less 3rd-ball-aggro-attack rubber than H3.
I haven't used Saturn but frankly most of their rubbers of a type (like tacky/grippy) are similar enough that it makes little difference not unlike moving between similar tenergies or esns. It's all the same sponge & topsheet composition with minor tweaks. For example, you might want to use something other than giant-pips Sun for loop-dominated game but otherwise it doesn't matter much. Edited by AgentHEX - 03/05/2015 at 9:46pm |
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AndySmith
Premier Member Joined: 11/12/2008 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 4378 |
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10x? Absolute nonsense. |
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This was a great signature until I realised it was overrated.
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Ray
Gold Member Joined: 02/28/2012 Location: Online Status: Offline Points: 1845 |
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Palio is Hong Kong based company, but Blitz is tensor rubber made in Germany by ESN. |
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eonblue
Super Member Joined: 12/28/2010 Location: Iowa Status: Offline Points: 157 |
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729 Battle (non-tacky) is quite good compared to vega europe, blitz, T05-FX; at least for me at 1760 it plays just as well on the backhand.
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Michael Maze ALC
Volt-T/Volt-M |
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