Could you estimate ratings of these guys

probably firmly around 2400

Edited by cmetsbeltran15 - 03/13/2015 at 4:21pm

The soul of rock wrote: Well, Colin is ranked 8th in Scotland and the best Scottish player, Gavin Rumgay, has higher ITTF rating than Tim Wang, so I highly doubt Colin's USATT rating would be that low if he has one.

Edited by cmetsbeltran15 - 03/13/2015 at 4:25pm

The soul of rock wrote: I agree that there is no real correlation, but I don't think they are that far off. But I'm not in their level, so may be you're right. Btw, I am really interested to see how you would rate these two guys https://youtu.be/NMcqGTTgUPk

cmetsbeltran15 wrote: most 2500s could exploit the technical flaws with his loop technique.

Pondus wrote: cmetsbeltran15 wrote: most 2500s could exploit the technical flaws with his loop technique. What are the technical flaws that could be so readily exploited?

Edited by cmetsbeltran15 - 03/02/2016 at 9:18am

we all look good in the highlights, and people can give you a rough estimate from players they know or have seen playing real competitions in big events in American Cities

I though the lefty taking it easy? He seemed to have better anticipation and his playing distance seemed to indicate that.
They would both be 2500+ if not more. I think the lefty may be far higher rated and he might be taking it easy or the righty was so much more better than this game that the lefty had no choice.

beeray1 wrote: Idk.. the point can be made for highlights sure. But if you're at a level to have that many quality points in a single tournament match, 2400 seems laughably low to me, and a 2500 player taking advantage of that guy seems about the same level of likelihood as anyone in the US taking advantage of whatever Eugene Wang's flaws might be. Sure, someone might scrape a win once in a great while, but you know how unlikely it is because he's that much better than everyone, and when it happens someone is having a great day and he is having a bad one.

Beeray, you're one of my favorite posters on this site, usually agree strongly with your opinions and the way you express them. However, I've seen plenty of evenly matched 2300s, 2400s have quality match highlight reels full of nice counterloops. Being able to have many such rallies doesn't automatically put you in elite territory. Comparing the difference between these guys and 2500 and anyone in the US vs Eugene is absolutely ludicrous man.

ashishsharmaait wrote: I though the lefty taking it easy? He seemed to have better anticipation and his playing distance seemed to indicate that. They would both be 2500+ if not more. I think the lefty may be far higher rated and he might be taking it easy or the righty was so much more better than this game that the lefty had no choice.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't you not even in the USA? Can't be too familiar with the system if so. Anyways, read the video title. Mens Final. You think he was taking it easy to the point that he lost? Unlikely. Anyways, since we're doing credibility checks I must recall the time you predicted some 2800 players as being below 2100. Should probably sit these threads out after a mistake like that.

http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=65246&title=suggest-rating

NextLevel wrote: I may need to watch the video again but my initial impression was closer to CMB15.

Always hard to judge on such a short and selective video but I think it's pretty clear that the apparent lack of a backhand threat paired with a very strong but not dominant forehand would put them in serious trouble against a smart 2550, 2600+ player like Butler, Hugh, Han Xiao. Anyways I think I've done enough in this thread, I'll let other people weigh in here.

Edited by cmetsbeltran15 - 03/14/2015 at 10:33am

Highlight reel ratings are pretty hard to do, but I think 2400 is a bit generous.  My observations:

• First, this critique is about their playing level.  Both are very good players and I think both would be over 2200 in the US.
• Both seem to use placement well. 
• Both, but the righty in particular, seem to vary their forehands a lot.  This isn't particularly "pretty", but big spin variations (fairly flat to pretty spinny) can be very effective.  This one thing is why their "apparent" level may not be as good as their "playing" level.
  
• Neither has the fluidity of movement that I usually see from all around 2400 players. 
  
• Neither has the balance and smooth transition between backhand and forehand that I'd expect from 2400 players.
• Both seem to return serves rather timidly most of the time.
  
• Neither seems to have a confident (consistently confident?) backhand.
  

With that being said, this is just a short clip and is between two players that I've never seen play in person.  They might both look "(even) higher level" against other players or styles.

If I were developing a strategy to play either of them I'd have my student really work on their serve, serve return, general short game, and backhand.  I'd also have them work on counters and block (neither seems to "do" a lot with their blocks) against varying spin.  A player that can effectively stay closer to the table should gain a pretty good advantage.

bes

kenneyy88 wrote: Victor_the_cleaner wrote: I watched Butler vs Kunal Chordi recently.. a 2550 match.. and this video shows a match where the pace seems a little faster, and the balls are a little tighter. So while i don't like these guys' strokes either, i think they are probably a bit higher than 2550.  I think watching too much chinese TT and playing at a local club leaves a huge hole in the middle. I don't have experience evaluating above say 2300 and under 3000. 90% of what I've watched is pro tours and that really distorts one's perception, because you can have a lot of shortcomings compared to Ma Long and still be a solid 2600 Butler and Kunal Chordi play pretty defensive/safe games, so of course the pace will be slower.

cmetsbeltran15 wrote: beeray1 wrote: Idk.. the point can be made for highlights sure. But if you're at a level to have that many quality points in a single tournament match, 2400 seems laughably low to me, and a 2500 player taking advantage of that guy seems about the same level of likelihood as anyone in the US taking advantage of whatever Eugene Wang's flaws might be. Sure, someone might scrape a win once in a great while, but you know how unlikely it is because he's that much better than everyone, and when it happens someone is having a great day and he is having a bad one.  Beeray, you're one of my favorite posters on this site, usually agree strongly with your opinions and the way you express them. However, I've seen plenty of evenly matched 2300s, 2400s have quality match highlight reels full of nice counterloops. Being able to have many such rallies doesn't automatically put you in elite territory. Comparing the difference between these guys and 2500 and anyone in the US vs Eugene is absolutely ludicrous man.

cmetsbeltran15 wrote: ashishsharmaait wrote: I though the lefty taking it easy? He seemed to have better anticipation and his playing distance seemed to indicate that. They would both be 2500+ if not more. I think the lefty may be far higher rated and he might be taking it easy or the righty was so much more better than this game that the lefty had no choice. Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't you not even in the USA? Can't be too familiar with the system if so.

You are right that I am not in the US...but I have played at the TopSpin San Jose for 6 months where there are 3-4 US 2500 players, lots of 2200 types...
I agree that at the time of the earlier post I was not too well versed with the US rating system and the only rating I could correlate to then was ITTF and I was not aware of the skew between ITTF and USATT. I also didn't know that a 2200 in CA could be 100 points better than a 2200 in some other part.
I just thought that the lefty was playing a bit loose or may be that's his playing style. He left the table too often to be on the defensive.

I think these are really good players and I can only estimate their playing level from what I have seen in clubs in CA and I can't understand what you are getting all worked up about.

@beeray - Yup, just thought I'd mention my appreciation as a side note though 

aroonkl wrote: ashishsharmaait wrote: cmetsbeltran15 wrote: ashishsharmaait wrote: I though the lefty taking it easy? He seemed to have better anticipation and his playing distance seemed to indicate that. They would both be 2500+ if not more. I think the lefty may be far higher rated and he might be taking it easy or the righty was so much more better than this game that the lefty had no choice. Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't you not even in the USA? Can't be too familiar with the system if so. You are right that I am not in the US...but I have played at the TopSpin San Jose for 6 months where there are 3-4 US 2500 players, lots of 2200 types.. I think these are really good players and I can only estimate their playing level from what I have seen in clubs in CA and I can't understand what you are getting all worked up about. Sometime it is not only familiar with system. It is perception and how do you look at things.   I once was at the Asian Games where our local team was supporting the prep for arena. After we were done with laying floors and tables, we goofed off and played. We saw some tournament players warming up/practicing near tables. A friend (2100+) looked at one young Asian player did FH drives  and loops. He mentioned that player was kind of weak and he might have a chance or good game against him. "Look at those loops. Not powerful at all." He pointed out.  The rest kind of mute. "That is Kong Linghui"  One whispered.

Edited by timobogdan - 03/03/2016 at 4:16pm