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Critiquing Time!!! 42andbackpains |
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42andbackpains
Silver Member Joined: 10/05/2014 Location: NYC Status: Offline Points: 623 |
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Posted: 04/16/2015 at 2:29pm |
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I am 42 years young, hence the forum name. I recorded last saturdays training session and i apologize for the construction noise. NYISC installed new wall padding for the indoor soccer field. I play at NYISC once a week for usually about a hour with my coach and another hour of light play with the club members. Yes i know my stamina is bad, but i am trying. I am 6'1" with a bad back, bad tendon in my right playing elbow, tendintis in my right back shoulder and chronic asthma since i was a child...dont get me started on my allergies. I have lost about 15lbs since starting TT again.
I have started my comeback late last year and will play this weeks April 19th tournament at NYISC. (Come and get some if you dare...lol) I have made a 25 minute video and edited with movie maker. Took me almost 2 hours to learn some basics of movie maker. All i used was the Title, Split and Trim tool. Thanks for all the suggestion from the forum members for helping me on what equipment & program to use. It kept my cost down, Thanks. I will try to updated this thread from time to time with a new video. Sorry, i only have the video of me playing forehand, forehand loop, forehand block and couple minutes of short pips backhand. I lost the rest of the latter half of the training session because the memory card got corrupted. The corrupted parts were of me bh looping some backspin short serves and 3rd ball attacks with my backhand and forehand. I have included some title breaks with my coaches advice to me in the video. Here is the gist of it. Forehand 1. Hit flatter and dont spin the ball. 2. Dont overstroke and finish your stroke near the center of your body. 3. Try to hit the ball in the same area of the racket, i tend to hit the ball in different spots when doing forehand hits and looping. 4. Slow down, feel the ball...(feel what ball?...lol) Stop using so much power. 5. Use more waist and less arm movements. Forehand Loop 1. Spin the ball, dont drive the ball. 2. Shorten the strokes and slow down. 3. Slow down and borrow the spin when counterlooping. Backhand Short Pips 1. Differentiate your push backhand and flick hit attack backhand. 2. Once again slow down and feel the ball. 3. Bend lower...i am trying coach. Feel free to criticize and offer up suggestions. Jokes kindly accepted. Here below is the YT video link. Thanks for looking. https://youtu.be/rVoCkA2GV7s ***Can some kind person show me step by step how to embed the video in a post? Thanks in advance.*** My goal is to reach 2000 before i croak....lol Edited by 42andbackpains - 04/16/2015 at 4:09pm |
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Mind is willing, but the back goes out too often :P
OSP Ultimate II 88 grams FH Dianchi D w/ Secret Sauce BH Butterfly T05 Red USATT rating keeps going down |
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NextLevel
Forum Moderator Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14844 |
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Quote this post so you can see the format.
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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42andbackpains
Silver Member Joined: 10/05/2014 Location: NYC Status: Offline Points: 623 |
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Thanks NextLevel. Good Luck on the State Championships. When i inputted the line code by typing it in, I would get a YT playback error. Then i copied and pasted your line code and it worked. I am a dunce....at least it works now. Thanks
Edited by 42andbackpains - 04/16/2015 at 4:15pm |
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Mind is willing, but the back goes out too often :P
OSP Ultimate II 88 grams FH Dianchi D w/ Secret Sauce BH Butterfly T05 Red USATT rating keeps going down |
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pnachtwey
Platinum Member Joined: 03/09/2010 Location: Vancouver, WA Status: Offline Points: 2035 |
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Wow coaches are so different.
My coach would say you need to snap your forearm more. Your elbow is too rigid. He is always telling me spin, spin, spin, spin, spin on every stroke. The BH stroke looks a little big. The paddle seem to cover your face at the end of the stroke. My coach teaches to fixed elbow technique like Brett Clark's gold elbow. Same thing. Most strokes should involve rotating the fore arm around the elbow. Elbow motion is required on power strokes and looping chopped balls. My coach wants me to stay close to the table and not move back. It would be interesting to see your foot work. Next time tell the coach to randomly hit the ball to your FH, BH and elbow so you have to move. This simulates a real game. I like this drill because it more closely resembles actual match play. Your coach should be able hit the ball at just the right pace and placement that will challenge you. I get bored to death hitting FH or BH over and over again and I can do that with a robot.. A robot can't simulate real matches like the coach can. |
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hookumsnivy
Gold Member Joined: 11/04/2010 Location: Syracuse, NY Status: Offline Points: 1599 |
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I've only watched a minute or so at this point, but I have a great recommendation:
Get a large bucket of balls and put it near the table. You're spending too much time picking up balls. It looks like you have 2 or 3 balls. That's not going to cut it. All that bending down to pick up balls is probably doing wonders on your back.
Edited by hookumsnivy - 04/16/2015 at 4:10pm |
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cole_ely
Premier Member Joined: 03/16/2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 6898 |
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I got an MRI a couple years back and I have a full page of issues. I love to pick up balls....stretches out my L's and S's.
That said, valuable training time is lost, plus not really getting a good workout.
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GeneralSpecific
Platinum Member Joined: 03/01/2010 Location: New York Status: Offline Points: 2810 |
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I'm not sure what your mean by pushing with your backhand, you didn't push or play any backspin in the video.
I agree with your coach that you should slow down a little bit. Pnactwey was saying that your backhand stroke is too large and it somewhat is. Your finish position that you currently have is something you would have on a really strong shot like a drive or a fast punch. You're only training here so like Pnachtwey said, try to fix your elbow to the correct position, shorten your stroke, and like your coach says "feel" the ball more. Save the current size of your backhand stroke for those really fast shots. |
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jrscatman
Premier Member Joined: 10/19/2008 Status: Offline Points: 4585 |
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Nice, all I have to say there will be a lot of upset players in tournaments when you show up with 1500 rating!
Good luck with your training
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NextLevel
Forum Moderator Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14844 |
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Thanks, 42andbackpains. I am going to give and take my beating like a wild animal.
My comments (whcih you have heard before):
Counterhit FH
Counterhit is pretty good to me - try to get the elbow out more and look even more relaxed. We talked about your physical limitation there, but I think your wrist remains too stiff when it should be bit looser. But I would be happy with this because you don't add topspin to the ball and it shows up in the quality of your block.
Topspin FH
1) The loop is a little too flat - the hand should feel more like a whip and your elbow seems to remain equally bent throughout the motion, when it should be whip with a forearm snap followed by a wrist snap.
2) Don't go so fast or hard - you should be able to loop and feel like you are having a conversation (Larry Hodges). I'm lazy - I can loop for like 20 minutes without gettting tired because I am not trying to macho.
3) Try to finish on the same side of your body and consistently above your eyebrows.
Again, loop slowly - don't try to hit the ball hard - power comes with excellent timing, and the biggest mistake is trying to hit the ball hard rather than letting it come from improved timing of the snap motions. If you loop more slowly, the technique and timing will improve naturally with time and you will get better spin and speed over time without too much effort. If you loop hard, you will put too much stress on your technique and your timing will not improve.
To make my point on speed, let me share a video. When I was rebuilding my forehand, this was the best video I had for my loop in practice - Brett Clarke was so happy with this video that he showed it to William Henzell. And if anyone had asked me for a video that represented my best looping efforts, I would never have picked this video at the time when I did it, but later I realized why - the arm motion on the loop is perfect. But back then, I had faster efforts which I was prouder of, but which all had the wrong technique. This effort was complete accidental - I asked my partner to block softly to let me loop lower balls and that resulted in a slower drill and it affected my technique without my even knowing it.
You may not believe it but shoulder turn is enough to loop - no need to transfer your weight across your feet, especially for someone as tall and naturally powerful as you are. You are not trying to be WLQ here. If it hurts your lower back though, stick with what you are comfortable.
My general point is that I think that you should be able to use your height and touch to control the ball better. This is a sport of illusions - hitting the ball hard is not what people think it is. Edited by NextLevel - 04/16/2015 at 4:50pm |
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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NextLevel
Forum Moderator Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14844 |
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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42andbackpains
Silver Member Joined: 10/05/2014 Location: NYC Status: Offline Points: 623 |
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My forehand strokes are a carry over from my junior days learning in the old Firehouse club in Chinatown NYC from Rey Domingo, Richard Ling, Mr Wong.....please blame them....lol Seriously i can get alot of whipping action into my strokes, i learned this early on playing tournaments in my junior days by trying to intimidate other kids....This is good and bad...Now i have a hard time slowing down. Therefore my coach tells me to slow down, use less power and feel the ball. I know he is trying to get me into a rythm and my arm to be more stable. He is always pointing out all good players have a good rythm. He is rated 2500-2600...Coach can you give me some of your rating points. I do play games with my coach at the end of the training session.
NYISC is sponsored by Butterfly and we recently switched to polyballs and we dont have so many to go around right now. The Butterfly poly balls are not available in large qtys so we practice with Xushaofa balls for now. I do some multiballs with the old celluloid balls, but coach knows this will kill me very quickly. I do wear a sports back brace, it helps alot. I have bought 72 Xushaofaballs and i plan on using them in training sessions when my stamina builds up. I plan on doing some cycling soon too.
I have been doing some yoga in the mornings for the past week. Search YT for Yoga for back pains. My back has started to really loosen up, but please take it nice and slow. I recommend trying it out.
I used to play inverted on my backhand side in my early junior and adult years. When i started on my comeback, i decided to switch to short pips. I have been learning bh shortpips for about 6 months only. Hard to kick the elongated stroke of my euro inverted bh days. Its getting there, i am starting to feel i can start to attack with my bh. My coach states there is like 2 basic short pips back hand strokes. Best way i can explain it is: 1. Push/Hit for normal rallies 2. Push/Hit/little more wrist flick for attacking.
USATT gave me this rating from 14 years ago after a 2014 renewal. Go blame Gordy...Ha Ha...Sorry Gordy. Yes, they should rerate you after so many years out of the system, but thats how the system works. I can do well against most 1300 to 1500 rated players, but when any tougher players show up. My stamina and erratic strokes are my downfall. Thanks forum members for the replies and please keep them coming. Edited by 42andbackpains - 04/16/2015 at 5:00pm |
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Mind is willing, but the back goes out too often :P
OSP Ultimate II 88 grams FH Dianchi D w/ Secret Sauce BH Butterfly T05 Red USATT rating keeps going down |
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42andbackpains
Silver Member Joined: 10/05/2014 Location: NYC Status: Offline Points: 623 |
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Nextlevel, Its always good to revisit the subject. I always need reminders and we tend to always repeat our mistakes. Due to the bad tendon in my right elbow, i cannot fully straighten out my right arm. (Football injury during my teens, threw it out and was never the same.) I try to relax, i constantly tell myself this. 1. The reason I was opening up my paddle so much was due to a my H3 neo was dying and i added some seamoon(little too much) and the rubber turned mushy. The ball was dropping off the rubber, my coach noticed it too. I have put on a new sheet of H3 neo provincial I understand the forehand whip motion, for me its rather a feel and its hard to balance the forearm/wrist whip motion with the overall arm motion. Too much forearm = less spin, Too wristy and my ball flys all over the place. 2. Slow and easy wins the race, This should be my mantra.....lol 3. Coach tell me this too, dont go across the body. In fact he want me to whip forward a little more. I will watch the recommended video later when i get home. Still posting from work....lol When my back feels good, i can bend lower. Really depend on how the back feels that day. My touch and ball control hopefully will improve with more repetition. I am planning on playing twice a week if my physical condition can improve. It still takes me about 2-3 days before all my soreness goes away...When i first came back half a year ago, it would take 4-6 days for all the soreness to go away. My coach does not play with power, he plays with tactics and ball placement. I dont understand why juniors dont try to hit deeper into the table. Its something they dont teach much these days. Thanks for the advice. Hopefully i can challenge you to a good game in the future. Wax on Wax off
Edited by 42andbackpains - 04/16/2015 at 6:23pm |
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Mind is willing, but the back goes out too often :P
OSP Ultimate II 88 grams FH Dianchi D w/ Secret Sauce BH Butterfly T05 Red USATT rating keeps going down |
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illinichamps
Super Member Joined: 09/08/2014 Location: Mars Status: Offline Points: 135 |
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Hey.. dont know if this is possible for you, but bending your knees would help a lot in ur fh loop. That is what leads to a shorter stroke, which gives you more time and help u relax and slow down. If u watch on youtube table tennis university, the teacher talks about the chest being the area where u want the ball to be when hitting it. My coach would often tell me this too and if you r not hitting it in this area its most often footwork problems or not bending enough.. ur impact point seems to be around your waist area.. something to think about if ur back and knees can handle it. Good luck bro
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illinichamps
Super Member Joined: 09/08/2014 Location: Mars Status: Offline Points: 135 |
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ka_H_H3iigI
this is the video i was talking about from table tennis university.. he calls it the sweet spot here.. but yeah you should be hitting within your sweet spot. If you hit the ball a bit early your loop should go to the opposite side, if you wait and hit a bit later your loop should be a down the line shot.. but hitting the ball near your waist is a big nono.. hope this helps
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pongcrazy
Gold Member Joined: 07/07/2007 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 1055 |
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I have bad lower back problems as well and I agree with an above poster in that I would like to see you squatting a bit lower with your legs which will take pressure off your back instead of bending over. Twisting is a pain, literally, so focus on being in a lower bent knee position instead of standing up so tall and bend over sideways at the waist. Faster shuffling footwork is the key to get into position instead of leaning. When you forehand loop don't just twist your mid section, but also move your feet forward with the natural motion. When looping only with your upper body and waist, your lower back will be tight and screaming way before you want to stop playing. Proper stance and ergonomics is the key even if you have to re-learn and train your strokes from a different contact angle.
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V-Griper
Silver Member Joined: 09/19/2011 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 879 |
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Your NPA(non playing arm) is moving in the same direction as your swing which is making your torso rotation sluggish and incomplete sometimes. Pull your forearm in closer to your torso and slightly higher. This will move the mass of your arm closer to the axis of your torso rotation and make the the stroke smoother more comfortable. Other than that your counter hit looks good to me.
Example- Edited by V-Griper - 04/17/2015 at 8:04am |
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Chopper88
Gold Member Joined: 06/24/2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1064 |
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Wow , I remember that Firehouse when I was a kid with Mr Wong
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42andbackpains
Silver Member Joined: 10/05/2014 Location: NYC Status: Offline Points: 623 |
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Yeah, My knees bending depends on how my back feels that day. I will try and i have seen this video before, thanks for pointing out the contact area should be ideally in the chest area. I never really got that point.
Foot speed is related to my stamina. Once i get tired, i tend to reach more and my feet dont move. As you can see in my video, i get tired fast. In my junior days, i attended some Westfield NJ junior training days. I know the footwork, but when the body gets tired. You just dont want to move. You should have seen me 6 months ago, what a train wreck. Now its just car crash instead of a train wreck...lol
Never noticed that and i will try to keep it in mind, but i do feel comfortable. Maybe i will try to attempt to correct it after this tournament.
SSSSHHHH....your revealing your age...lol Brings back memories, no heat, no a/c, concrete floors,Arcade machines(pacman) and throwing broken celluloid balls into that stove/fireplace(Didn't know better) Post a pic of yourself, maybe i can recognize you if you dont mind. |
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Mind is willing, but the back goes out too often :P
OSP Ultimate II 88 grams FH Dianchi D w/ Secret Sauce BH Butterfly T05 Red USATT rating keeps going down |
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Chopper88
Gold Member Joined: 06/24/2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1064 |
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Lol remember what I said when I was a little kid
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42andbackpains
Silver Member Joined: 10/05/2014 Location: NYC Status: Offline Points: 623 |
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I played in my clubs NYISC April 19th tournament and reached the semis of the 1800 event. In my semfinals match I was up 1 game and then got rolled 3 games straight by a clubmate and he was 13 years old... This old man was getting tired even though i entered only one event and man was i nervous for my first match. Oh well, i will play next months tournament with the hope to get some revenge!!!
Edited by 42andbackpains - 04/20/2015 at 6:26pm |
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Mind is willing, but the back goes out too often :P
OSP Ultimate II 88 grams FH Dianchi D w/ Secret Sauce BH Butterfly T05 Red USATT rating keeps going down |
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Pondus
Gold Member Joined: 04/07/2012 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1933 |
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Nice - congrats.
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42andbackpains
Silver Member Joined: 10/05/2014 Location: NYC Status: Offline Points: 623 |
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Congrats for getting rolled by a 13 year old...Thanks i think...LOL
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Mind is willing, but the back goes out too often :P
OSP Ultimate II 88 grams FH Dianchi D w/ Secret Sauce BH Butterfly T05 Red USATT rating keeps going down |
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GMan4911
Silver Member Joined: 08/31/2012 Location: Earth Status: Offline Points: 830 |
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That's nothing. Imagine getting your ass handed to you by 9 year old girls.
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Pondus
Gold Member Joined: 04/07/2012 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1933 |
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Oh who cares... I've certainly lost to my share of 12-15 year olds. Hey, if they're better than you, they're better than you. I know my 15-year old self would beat my current self pretty easily too. |
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42andbackpains
Silver Member Joined: 10/05/2014 Location: NYC Status: Offline Points: 623 |
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Its all in fun. We have a 10 year old girl in our club who gets coached by one of our high level coaches. I am sure she will roll me soon too....
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Mind is willing, but the back goes out too often :P
OSP Ultimate II 88 grams FH Dianchi D w/ Secret Sauce BH Butterfly T05 Red USATT rating keeps going down |
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