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Guess rating and provide advice |
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hookumsnivy
Gold Member Joined: 11/04/2010 Location: Syracuse, NY Status: Offline Points: 1599 |
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Posted: 04/17/2015 at 11:34am |
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This match was at the end of club play. We've played each other before so we're relatively familiar with each other's game - especially the strengths and weaknesses of each other's serve and serve return.
I made a ton of mistakes in the 1st game, but it was better after that.
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mts388
Platinum Member Joined: 03/21/2014 Location: Sonora CA Status: Offline Points: 2382 |
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1200-1400. Way to many unforced errors. Serves and serve returns were weak. Some great hits, but more misses than good hits.
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aerial
Super Member Joined: 01/11/2015 Location: NY Status: Offline Points: 499 |
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So what do you think snivy's opponent is rated? I think his service game is probably one of his strong suits, but I might be saying that because I play him on a weekly basis :) |
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Speedplay
Premier Member Joined: 07/11/2006 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 3405 |
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In major disagrement here. i think they are both much higher, based on videos of other players. My guess would rather be 1600+ on both of them. Sure, to many unforced mistakes, like pretty much everyone else at this level, but their strokes looked good, nice speed and spin. As for serve and return, this often gets messed up when playing against players you are very familiar with. Still thought they looked decent enough. In the first set, I thought the penholder overused his bh, but stepped around more later on and Corrected that. |
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The holy grail
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hookumsnivy
Gold Member Joined: 11/04/2010 Location: Syracuse, NY Status: Offline Points: 1599 |
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I'm the penholder. I think there's a lot of things that you can't see in the video unless you're looking for it.My opponent's serve are much more deceptive than they appear. I didn't miss many of them (after the 1st game), because I've learned to read them better. He messes with the spin on his blocks, especially on his BH side - sometimes it's the standard block and sometimes he kills the spin.
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hookumsnivy
Gold Member Joined: 11/04/2010 Location: Syracuse, NY Status: Offline Points: 1599 |
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My serve return game is weak, no argument there. I'm curious why you think the serves are weak. Keep in mind we're used to each other's game. My serves are actually what allows me to play above what otherwise would be my level.
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vanjr
Gold Member Joined: 08/19/2004 Location: Corpus Christi Status: Offline Points: 1368 |
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Gotta disagree with mts388-after just the first serve I would call them above 1600. Probably 1800.
Do not think about those bay area kids when you look at this! Think how the rest of the country is rated. |
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NextLevel
Forum Moderator Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14844 |
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Mts388 is from Cali. That explains his estimate. Cali players are sharks if they don't play at Nationals.
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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BRS
Gold Member Joined: 05/08/2013 Location: United States Status: Online Points: 1587 |
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1750 - 1850. There are some real pretty shots in here. 2:43 for example, a lovely sidespin fh. And you both can put a few quality shots together, which doesn't happen much below 1700 (east coast ratings). The consistency just isn't quite there to land those quality shots 90% of the time, and you both suffer when you have to move. Nothing unusual about that.
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NextLevel
Forum Moderator Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14844 |
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I agree, but the fact that the players are somewhat familiar with each other is part of what makes that so. As a first match in a tournament, yes. But as a practice match between players who know each other, not so much. Green TT shirt player is definitely higher than the penholder, but Green TT shirt player needs to go get a real backhand. Sheesh - couldn't even open against anything backspin that came to that side with anything resembling an attack, not to speak of a topspin.
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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hookumsnivy
Gold Member Joined: 11/04/2010 Location: Syracuse, NY Status: Offline Points: 1599 |
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Strangely enough, we've been pretty even in match play recently. But I agree, he's a better player.
Now that I think of it, he doesn't often attack with his BH close to the table, but once he takes a few steps back he does and it's quite strong.
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NextLevel
Forum Moderator Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14844 |
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Sure it is. You are giving him too much credit. Revisit on a fee months. Usually, a player without good backhand technique close go the table has bad backhand technique on all BH strokes. |
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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hookumsnivy
Gold Member Joined: 11/04/2010 Location: Syracuse, NY Status: Offline Points: 1599 |
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Can't do that - he just moved to Atlanta and can now play in larger more active clubs. Maybe aerial has some footage of the BH.
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aerial
Super Member Joined: 01/11/2015 Location: NY Status: Offline Points: 499 |
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I'll just leave this here... :) This was our last match for probably a very long time since he moved to Atlanta for work--I'd like to think that made me "go easy" but in reality he played better than me in this match. Edit: don't hate me snivy--this was my first video experimenting with captioning the points. I did not not caption yours on purpose... :P
Edited by aerial - 04/17/2015 at 3:15pm |
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42andbackpains
Silver Member Joined: 10/05/2014 Location: NYC Status: Offline Points: 623 |
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12-1300...No way. You both used service tactics, short & long serves. hookumsnivy, you have nice wristy rpb. Maybe it was the end of league play and maybe you were tired. Unforced errors are part of the game and if you had no errors, then you would be world class. I think your opponent saw that you were making unforced errors and played to it. Just waiting for you to make the initial error. You were maybe going for winners too much, i have this issue myself. I would say around 1700-1900.
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Mind is willing, but the back goes out too often :P
OSP Ultimate II 88 grams FH Dianchi D w/ Secret Sauce BH Butterfly T05 Red USATT rating keeps going down |
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BH-Man
Premier Member Joined: 02/05/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5042 |
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Snivey, I think I dropped below 1700 this last tourney and you could possibly defeat me in a tourney match. I lost so much level this last three months the only TT I had was doing tourneys and losing mostly, except for the freak Jan tourney I did in Utica where I inexplicably made 2 finals.
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Korea Foreign Table Tennis Club
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BH-Man
Premier Member Joined: 02/05/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5042 |
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Right now i COULD lose to either of you in a tourney if we meet up within the next month.
I think the grade 2 tear I have on my rotator cuff tendon is stopping me from playing my aggressive topspins I normally do, but it is surely a loss of touch and skill on my part. You two keep plugging away, hard to grow playing 1-2 times a week, but you are all making more progress than me... I am going backwards. |
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Korea Foreign Table Tennis Club
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aerial
Super Member Joined: 01/11/2015 Location: NY Status: Offline Points: 499 |
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BH-man you should open up a club where you live
Snivy and I'd come to visit ;)
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mts388
Platinum Member Joined: 03/21/2014 Location: Sonora CA Status: Offline Points: 2382 |
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I'm going to the Sacramento tournament tomorrow and I'm sure I'll see 10 U1400 players who would beat either player.
I think it's mostly regional differences. We had a 1600 guy visit from the Rochester club a few years ago. He couldn't beat anyone over 1000. I saw him taking a video of some of our 1500 players and I asked him what he was doing. He said he was going to send it to his coach to show him that our 1500 players were 1900 in Rochester. One reason that there is a big difference between regions is the difference in the rating system. In tomorrows Sacramento tournament there are 7 events under 1000. A beginner in our area who loses all their matches will have a rating under 100. A Rochester beginner will enter his tournaments lowest event (probably U1000) and lose all their matches and end up with a rating of 900. Both players have the exact same ability, but one is rated 800 points higher than the other. As their skill levels improve the gap will close, but there will be a difference of a couple hundred points in the 1500-1700 area. The gap is almost closed as they reach 2000. |
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NextLevel
Forum Moderator Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14844 |
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I don't think that's the whole truth to be frank. You guys also don't play tournaments often and artificially depress ratings so that you can get good results at Nationals and the Open. I mean, most of the kids at the level of the Cali kids play tournament every month on the East Coast so they don't go to major tournaments underrated.
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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hookumsnivy
Gold Member Joined: 11/04/2010 Location: Syracuse, NY Status: Offline Points: 1599 |
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Apparently there's a big difference between the 2 areas. I distinctly remember 2 matches in a Westchester tournament where I beat high 1400 players with not much more than a serve (1 type of serve in different locations) and 3rd ball attack.
Edited by hookumsnivy - 04/17/2015 at 5:44pm |
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mts388
Platinum Member Joined: 03/21/2014 Location: Sonora CA Status: Offline Points: 2382 |
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[/QUOTE] I don't think that's the whole truth to be frank. You guys also don't play tournaments often and artificially depress ratings so that you can get good results at Nationals and the Open. I mean, most of the kids at the level of the Cali kids play tournament every month on the East Coast so they don't go to major tournaments underrated. [/QUOTE]I will somewhat agree with you. In spite of all the great players in the bay area, there are very few tournaments. Facilities are very expensive and not practical. There are usually 4 Sacramento tournaments a year and of the 170 players, over 100 are bay area kids. Leagues seem to have replaced tournaments. I try to play in 10 tournaments a year, but to do that I have to travel to southern California or Nevada. Most bay area kids will only play in 4 or 5 tournaments a year, because that's all that is available. Many east coast clubs have monthly tournaments so players can get in lots of tournament play. I don't really see a solution to the regional rating differences. |
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aerial
Super Member Joined: 01/11/2015 Location: NY Status: Offline Points: 499 |
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When I went to the Bay Area on vacation this past Christmas, I went to the Berkleey Table Tennis Club and some of the juniors there were pretty good... and they were only rated at around 1000-1200 or so, so I can see why mts would give that rating to the two players. I would have thought they were easily like 1600--the kids that is.
I caught some of their conversations (the juniors at BTTC) and they said the last tournament they played was like the nationals or u.s. open or something like that. The Bay Area is definitely a hot bed for TT in the States... hopefully the east coast catches up :) I'd post my vids from BTTC here but I feel like I'm jacking Snivy's thread haha then again, we practice together in his man-cave (read: basement) so in theory if either of us raises our respective levels it should help the other one.
Edited by aerial - 04/17/2015 at 6:23pm |
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lineup32
Gold Member Joined: 12/06/2012 Location: Calif Status: Offline Points: 1195 |
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I play BTTC every week along with another club locally I enjoy playing the BTTC kids but most of the top Juniors are at ICC and Alameda which also have RR play so the Bay Area RR play is tough its either practice or die A couple weeks a older PenHold player came by who was a strong player and was matched up against a 8 year, it wasn't close the old guy lost 3-1 and looked like he had been run over by a truck afterwards..huge ego loss..
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aerial
Super Member Joined: 01/11/2015 Location: NY Status: Offline Points: 499 |
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Yeah.. not going to lie, I felt like I played really well that day and it was still hard for me to beat the kids at BTTC.
I guess I'm glad I didn't go to Alameda or ICC
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mts388
Platinum Member Joined: 03/21/2014 Location: Sonora CA Status: Offline Points: 2382 |
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ICC just doubled the size of their club which will make things even more difficult. I'm hoping they will also have more tournaments. WCTTA is also moving to a new facility. Things will only get tougher for me.
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alphapong
Silver Member Joined: 05/11/2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 622 |
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I had a look at this after Nationals. After the ratings came out, I was quite pleased that our 9 players picked up an average of 357 points. Our players averaged 6-7 tournaments in the run up to nationals. Do players from other areas really play much more? I did notice on the list of big points gainers quite a number of players from So while I do think "tournament avoidance sandbagging" does take place, it is not the primary factor for the ratings discrepancy. In addition to what has already been mentioned, our local area has a very high percentage of improving players. We have 30 players going from our club to the Sacramento Open tomorrow. Out of those 30, 22 are juniors in our program. Of the 8 adults, half participate in some form of training here. Improving players will always depress the rating system by consuming points from the static players.
Edited by alphapong - 04/18/2015 at 12:15am |
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mts388
Platinum Member Joined: 03/21/2014 Location: Sonora CA Status: Offline Points: 2382 |
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Thanks for cheering me up |
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alphapong
Silver Member Joined: 05/11/2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 622 |
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Well at least U1800 U18 years should cheer you up!
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lineup32
Gold Member Joined: 12/06/2012 Location: Calif Status: Offline Points: 1195 |
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I don't think that's the whole truth to be frank. You guys also don't play tournaments often and artificially depress ratings so that you can get good results at Nationals and the Open. I mean, most of the kids at the level of the Cali kids play tournament every month on the East Coast so they don't go to major tournaments underrated. [/QUOTE]I will somewhat agree with you. In spite of all the great players in the bay area, there are very few tournaments. Facilities are very expensive and not practical. There are usually 4 Sacramento tournaments a year and of the 170 players, over 100 are bay area kids. Leagues seem to have replaced tournaments. I try to play in 10 tournaments a year, but to do that I have to travel to southern California or Nevada. Most bay area kids will only play in 4 or 5 tournaments a year, because that's all that is available. Many east coast clubs have monthly tournaments so players can get in lots of tournament play. I don't really see a solution to the regional rating differences. [/QUOTE] Thats a good point and to show how strong the local leagues are around here BTTC only had 26 players tonight everybody else was at Sac getting ready for the tournament this weekend. Normally BTTC has over 50 players so its gives one a good idea how strong the local play is.
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