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Using boosters on neo hurricane 3

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MLfan View Drop Down
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    Posted: 04/24/2015 at 1:12am
Hey guys, I am aware that all chinese pros use boosters like Haifu Oil, Dianchi Oil, Seamoon Oil, etc on their hurricanes. However, I'm not sure how to properly use these boosters to boost my hurricane. I'm talking about the NEO hurricane series, not regular hurricane/hurricane 3-50/hurricane 8. To make my post easier to read, I'll list the techniques I know and hopefully, you guys can help me out here. 

1. There's a video out there made by a Beijing Provincial player that teaches how to use the Dianchi booster. His method is to use 3-4 layers of Dianchi WBG, then 3-4 layers of Dianchi Booster. 

2. From talking to a couple provincial players in Shanghai, they use oil FIRST, then WBG. Shanghai players use Kai Lin Oil and DHS no.15 glue. They use 4-5 layers of Kai Lin Oil, then 3-4 layers of DHS no. 15 glue. 

3. A friend of mine who works at Nittaku in Shanghai says that the best method is to alternate between oil and glue, with the oil going on first. For e.g., oil 1 layer, wait dry, then glue, then oil on that glue layer, wait dry, then oil again, and so on. 

4. The last method I've seen is putting glue and oil on according to how much weight they add to the rubber. What I mean here is that first, the rubber is weighed, then WBG is added in layers until the weight is 3 grams more than the initial weight. Then oil is added in layers until it is 6 grams more than the initial weight OR 3 grams more than the weight of the rubber after the glue procedure is finished.  

For method 1, the oil takes about 5-6 days to fully dry. For method 2, the oil takes about 2 days to dry. I haven't tried methods 3 and 4. There are several questions I have concerning boosting. 

1. Fan Zhendong said in an interview that in a tournament, he changes rubbers once a day or even after every match. He also said he gets 40 hurricanes a month (ridiculous I know). If the boosting procedure takes so long to complete, then he must take 5-6 BOOSTED rubbers with him to tournaments. Exactly how is this practical?

2. When exactly is the best time to glue the boosted rubber to the blade? Ie. how big should the dome be? Apparently, there's been a debate on whether dome height is proportional to the boosted effect. From what I know, the dome gets smaller because the topsheet is stretched to match the length of the expanded sponge. But wouldn't that mean the boosted effect is reduced because there is less tension between the topsheet and the sponge? All the advices/methods I've seen instruct to glue to the rubber onto the blade when the dome has subsided. Does anybody know why? I'm actually able to glue the rubber to my blade even when the dome is 7cm high. Is it really because it's harder to glue the rubber when the dome is so pronounced, or is a lower dome an indication of the oil getting fully dried?

3. From this video, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iw_xbJNFizU, Ma Long and Ma Lin are practicing and the sounds made from their forehands are so loud! At around 1:10 min, Ma Lin is stepping around to play his forehand from the backhand side. He's not even using a lot of power, but he gets such a loud cracking noise, which is an indication of the boosted effect. How do you get that cracking sound?

4. I know from an inside source that pros like Ma Lin, Zhang Jike, etc, use 2.1mm sponges instead of 2.2mm ones because they apply 10-12 layers of Nittaku Finezip glue. Finezip is one of the thicker glues, and I can't imagine them use any booster above 10-12 layers of glue that thick. But if they use booster first, and I'm sure they boost the hell out of their rubbers, how do they apply glue on when the rubber is that domed? 

I apologize for the long post folks! These ideas have been bothering me for quite some time now. Thanks a million to those who's gotten to the end of my post! Hopefully, somebody can solve these mysteries for me! :D

P.S. No posts here about whether boosting is legal or not please. Not the point of the thread :)


Edited by MLfan - 04/24/2015 at 1:17am
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aroonkl View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote aroonkl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/24/2015 at 1:53am
XX & FZD were practicing, Their rubbers were super loud. FH did not even sound like Chinese rubbers.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZltttM7dAAI
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote schen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/24/2015 at 2:21am
There is no way people can use that many layers as some of the points on your list.  With even a 2.1 unboosted sponge, 4 layers of most glues (especially finezip and the like) will take the racket covering over the 4.04mm legal limit...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MLfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/24/2015 at 2:48am
Ikr...I don't know how their FH rubbers can get so loud without speed glue 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wanhao Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/24/2015 at 2:49am
get a 3-50 or 3-80.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 42andbackpains Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/24/2015 at 1:42pm
You just have to try different methods until you find which fits you. I recently overboosted one sheet of my H3 neo provincial and the rubber died very quickly. So now i know better to just only boost with 2 layers of Seamoon. Live and learn.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aroonkl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/24/2015 at 4:24pm
Originally posted by 42andbackpains 42andbackpains wrote:

You just have to try different methods until you find which fits you. I recently overboosted one sheet of my H3 neo provincial and the rubber died very quickly. So now i know better to just only boost with 2 layers of Seamoon. Live and learn.
How many layers did you use?
I think schen boosted like 5-6 layers. I don't know how he does it. I could not do more than 2/3.  After a month, may be another one.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 42andbackpains Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/24/2015 at 5:43pm
Originally posted by aroonkl aroonkl wrote:

Originally posted by 42andbackpains 42andbackpains wrote:

You just have to try different methods until you find which fits you. I recently overboosted one sheet of my H3 neo provincial and the rubber died very quickly. So now i know better to just only boost with 2 layers of Seamoon. Live and learn.
How many layers did you use?
I think schen boosted like 5-6 layers. I don't know how he does it. I could not do more than 2/3.  After a month, may be another one.


I used 3 layers at first and maybe a little too thick. Now I am not so heavy handed. 2 layers of Seamoon is perfect for me. Wink
Mind is willing, but the back goes out too often :P
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote schen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/24/2015 at 5:57pm
Depending on the sponge and the booster, different amounts of layering is appropriate.

One frustrating thing I've found is that on DHS rubbers, the sponges react differently to booster depending on their production date stamp...

For example, rubbers' sponges made in 2013 (P13######) are my least favorite because they are too soft and brittle.  Boosting turns them into inconsistent mush.

Megaspin had a couple sheets made in 2012 (P12######) the last time I ordered from them, but I think they finished that stock already.  Sponge was nice but topsheets were inconsistent and often times smudged by what looks like factory workers' fingerprints.

2014 rubbers are generally my favorite (PAD######) and are fairly consistently hard.  They also react well to booster without softening too much and can sustain several layers of booster without problem.  Provincial sheets with this stamp are the best if you can get them and are generally a bit softer without being mushy with boosting.  

The freshest batch I've seen so far was from TT11 (PADAB####), meaning produced in December 2014.  Paddle Palace may even have PAE###### (2015) on their restock coming at the end of this month, although I am not sure.  Their last batch was PADXI#### (September 2014) and was pretty good.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aroonkl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/24/2015 at 6:01pm
Schen,
WHAT'S THE HECK? You are pushing me to Tenergy Clans. These are too much inconsistent.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote schen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/24/2015 at 6:09pm
Yeaahh... that's the downside of using Chinese equipment in general though.  Can't have everything Confused

Stick to sellers with the freshest sheets and then stock up because you'll want some consistency down the road.  And since hurricane costs literally less than a third of Tenergy, I think this hassle is still worth it haha.

My boosting methods have changed in the past several times because I didn't realize the pattern between the production dates and sheet quality before.  Now that I know I just stick with PAD stamped sheets or later - and with these I can use 4 layers of Kailin or 6 layers of Seamoon if going direct to sponge.  If I boost over glue (Kailin or Falco or any of the non-opaque Haifu-type boosters), 3 layers is enough... Seamoon sucks over glue.

I really ought to make a how-to thread on this...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aroonkl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/24/2015 at 6:25pm
Why boost over glue is less than boost directly? Shouldn't they be reversed?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote schen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/24/2015 at 6:47pm
Kailin expands and domes the glue faster than the sponge.  Seamoon doesn't work the same way, falco might.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Argothman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/24/2015 at 7:30pm
Is Seamoon better than Dianchi in terms of speed/spin? If so, why would provincial players use Dianchi?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote schen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/24/2015 at 8:14pm
I feel that Seamoon is better in speed and spin.  Dianchi softens the rubber considerably and helps with control and some spin.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jonyer1980 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/25/2015 at 1:51am
I´ve never heard about Kailin oil. Where can we get it overseas?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MLfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/25/2015 at 8:24am
@schen 
How do you decide if you want to boost directly to sponge or over glue? I tried boosting with 5 layers of Kai Lin once and after I did, the rubber got supremely fast. Topspins against block were fantastic but somehow i felt the rubber was too "loose," as in it felt like the rubber got less dense lol. So when power looping backspin, it felt like my power dissipiates and the ball goes into the net. Not sure if that's what overboost is? 

Which glue do you use btw? 
Do you also know how to get that "cracking" sound? :)


Edited by MLfan - 04/25/2015 at 8:26am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MLfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/25/2015 at 8:33am
Originally posted by jonyer1980 jonyer1980 wrote:

I´ve never heard about Kailin oil. Where can we get it overseas?

I don't think you can get it overseas unfortunately. Kailin oil is actually quite hard to get, even in China. It's not commercially available in China and the only surefire way of getting it is through the provincial teams. The ones are taobao are pretty much fake lol. 

On the subject of boosters though, I heard from my friend who knows Ren Hao (CNT player) that they use Haifu 2009 Oil. It's extremely viscous apparently, and comes at 800 RMB a bottle (same size as Seamoon bottle). 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Argothman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/25/2015 at 1:42pm
Originally posted by MLfan MLfan wrote:

@schen 
How do you decide if you want to boost directly to sponge or over glue? I tried boosting with 5 layers of Kai Lin once and after I did, the rubber got supremely fast. Topspins against block were fantastic but somehow i felt the rubber was too "loose," as in it felt like the rubber got less dense lol. So when power looping backspin, it felt like my power dissipiates and the ball goes into the net. Not sure if that's what overboost is? 

Which glue do you use btw? 
Do you also know how to get that "cracking" sound? :)


The cracking sound is from the technique, actually. It happens when you hit straight into the racquet. Try adding more hit to your stroke, you'll hear more and more cracking sound. If you're doing heavy brush loops you won't hear much.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kurokami Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/25/2015 at 2:03pm
Originally posted by Argothman Argothman wrote:

Originally posted by MLfan MLfan wrote:

@schen 
How do you decide if you want to boost directly to sponge or over glue? I tried boosting with 5 layers of Kai Lin once and after I did, the rubber got supremely fast. Topspins against block were fantastic but somehow i felt the rubber was too "loose," as in it felt like the rubber got less dense lol. So when power looping backspin, it felt like my power dissipiates and the ball goes into the net. Not sure if that's what overboost is? 

Which glue do you use btw? 
Do you also know how to get that "cracking" sound? :)


The cracking sound is from the technique, actually. It happens when you hit straight into the racquet. Try adding more hit to your stroke, you'll hear more and more cracking sound. If you're doing heavy brush loops you won't hear much.

+1. it's not the booster but technique. best loops are a combination of hit, drive, and brush. never pure any single form. it's not a flat smack but a firm, crisp, drive contact that produces that sound. if you just smack it, you get a different cracking sound like the uncontrolled smasher :P

same with tenergy pop. you can't just brush it hard (maybe with fx it may work) or throw a lot of booster. it's easier with softer rubber but the sound is due to massive accel that causes the spin pop - not really related to how hard you swing. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MLfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/25/2015 at 10:29pm
Thanks for the replies! I know techniques's a part of this cracking sound, but I'm referring to the booster part. Booster definitely makes the rubber louder. @schen or to anybody who regularly boosts, when do you apply the rubber to the blade after applying booster? How curly is the rubber when you glue it to the blade? Perhaps the degree of how curly the rubber is has something to do with it? 

Is the curliness of the rubber is proportional to the boosted effect? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote schen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/25/2015 at 10:54pm
Gluing the rubber while it is still domed will have a bouncier effect at first because the topsheet will be tensioned.  Flattening happens when the topsheet stretches into its new size because of the increased volume of the sponge - some people might find they have more controlled when letting it settle.  You can see what literally looks like stretch marks (same like on human skin) on the topsheet if there was a lot of tensioning.  But either way the topsheet will eventually stretch whether it's glued to the blade or sitting on its own and the effect will be the same in a couple days.

If you think you can control the extra bounciness, then by all means glue it while it is domed.  It will eventually settle to play as if you had let the dome subside before gluing in the end anyway.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote remy_vn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/25/2015 at 11:36pm
H8 boosted with my oil , 3 layer: Feel softer, increase speed, spin and control better Smile










Edited by remy_vn - 04/25/2015 at 11:38pm
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thanks so much schen!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote bayttplayer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/27/2015 at 3:23am
most methods you list above are OK. you won't see much difference, just use the simple one.
I'm using paddlepalace water base glue, here's what I did.
Apply 2-3 layer oil, until curve enough or sponge got thick wait 1-2 days, remove original glue, apply 5-6 layer water base glue and 2 layer on blade glue it.

here's one of top 10 in us did.
he is using DHS #15, apply 5-6 layer oil very thin each time until curve enough didn't remove original glue, apply 8-10 layer DHS #15, very thin each time. apply one layer oil, wait 1 day, apply one layer glue on sponge and blade, glue it.


Edited by bayttplayer - 04/27/2015 at 3:24am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote remy_vn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/03/2015 at 10:49am
Originally posted by bayttplayer bayttplayer wrote:

most methods you list above are OK. you won't see much difference, just use the simple one.
I'm using paddlepalace water base glue, here's what I did.
Apply 2-3 layer oil, until curve enough or sponge got thick wait 1-2 days, remove original glue, apply 5-6 layer water base glue and 2 layer on blade glue it.

here's one of top 10 in us did.
he is using DHS #15, apply 5-6 layer oil very thin each time until curve enough didn't remove original glue, apply 8-10 layer DHS #15, very thin each time. apply one layer oil, wait 1 day, apply one layer glue on sponge and blade, glue it.


Thanks for your post, which oil  we can use for this? , i'm using parrafin oil or baby oil but it made the sponge  too soft, less spin, speed  Cry it is ok in a week - two weeks .
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jouncsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/28/2018 at 2:47am
what is the best overall booster?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chop4ever Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/28/2018 at 5:18am
Originally posted by Jouncsen Jouncsen wrote:

what is the best overall booster?

If you ask me, I will say...my product Reviver is the best overall!
If you ask me to pick something out of my products, then I could say Nittaku Axel and Stiga Extreme is on the top of the others.
There is no real "pro", "prov" or "NT" H3 in the market.
Falco is not a booster
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Originally posted by chop4ever chop4ever wrote:

Originally posted by Jouncsen Jouncsen wrote:

what is the best overall booster?

If you ask me, I will say...my product Reviver is the best overall!
If you ask me to pick something out of my products, then I could say Nittaku Axel and Stiga Extreme is on the top of the others.
you are the master on thisClapClap
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jouncsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/28/2018 at 12:18pm
oh interesting, what about best booster for hurricane 3?
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