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Double Day Valiant Loop King Review

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    Posted: 06/29/2015 at 9:34pm
Originally posted by schen schen wrote:

Originally posted by mhnh007 mhnh007 wrote:


The carbon layer in the video and in the picture at the online store does not show the 'fabric' texture like other ALC that I see.  I hope some one has the close up of the side of the blade to see more clearly.


Double Day's composite layers are thinner and of a different ratio of Arylate to Carbon than BTY's and typical clones.  I think this lends itself to a crisper and more direct feel.  I will be posting my own review of the DD ALC Winner sometime soon and will go into that a bit more!

That's what I thought. Thanks
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/29/2015 at 4:02pm
Originally posted by schen schen wrote:

I do however still have an ST Terminator (ALC/ZLC combo) blade though

You are asking a guy who can't even use different backhand and forehand rubbers to use different backhand and forehand speeds on his blade surface?  Really?

I do want to try the flare as I think that the Loop King would have had better balance with a straight handle.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote schen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/29/2015 at 3:38pm
I do however still have an ST Terminator (ALC/ZLC combo) blade though
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/29/2015 at 3:25pm
Originally posted by schen schen wrote:

I have one that is 86.6g although it is FL and koto outer ply, may not be to your liking from our conversations...

Can't you send it on a flyer and I will pay if I like, return if I don't (LOL)?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote schen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/29/2015 at 3:17pm
I have one that is 86.6g although it is FL and koto outer ply, may not be to your liking from our conversations...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/29/2015 at 3:10pm
Originally posted by schen schen wrote:

Originally posted by mhnh007 mhnh007 wrote:

The carbon layer in the video and in the picture at the online store does not show the 'fabric' texture like other ALC that I see.  I hope some one has the close up of the side of the blade to see more clearly.

Double Day's composite layers are thinner and of a different ratio of Arylate to Carbon than BTY's and typical clones.  I think this lends itself to a crisper and more direct feel.  I will be posting my own review of the DD ALC Winner sometime soon and will go into that a bit more!

Do you have a Winner to sell me?  I think the lighter head will help with some of my pains... the blade is really good.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote schen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/29/2015 at 3:01pm
Originally posted by mhnh007 mhnh007 wrote:

The carbon layer in the video and in the picture at the online store does not show the 'fabric' texture like other ALC that I see.  I hope some one has the close up of the side of the blade to see more clearly.

Double Day's composite layers are thinner and of a different ratio of Arylate to Carbon than BTY's and typical clones.  I think this lends itself to a crisper and more direct feel.  I will be posting my own review of the DD ALC Winner sometime soon and will go into that a bit more!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/29/2015 at 11:52am
Originally posted by V-Griper V-Griper wrote:

Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

https://youtu.be/An5iXgG9ej0?t=240

(to place the video in context, I have been trying to work through a recommendation someone made about my finishing position for my backhand loop and I didn't really understand what he wanted at first, but I figured it out finally - watching that video was the key last step)

Ah the 11 o'clock contact position!!!!! Be prepared for some serious level up on the BH. Man there is so much going on with that if you can work it into your flip. So much spin!! Just need to work in the counter hit and your on to the next levelLOL

I've usually had the 11/1 o'clock contact position on both sides  (well, until recently, when I made some mistakes interpreting changes that the coach gave me).  This was more about how far I whipped my wrist through on my stroke.  He wanted me let the wrist go through until my racket handle faced the wall on the left side on my BH loop.  I usually stopped my stroke when the racket was flush with my hand as it gave me more "control".  It was a simple change, but I mixed it up with other stupid things and ended up ruining my backhand for a while.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote V-Griper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/29/2015 at 11:18am
Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

https://youtu.be/An5iXgG9ej0?t=240

(to place the video in context, I have been trying to work through a recommendation someone made about my finishing position for my backhand loop and I didn't really understand what he wanted at first, but I figured it out finally - watching that video was the key last step)

Ah the 11 o'clock contact position!!!!! Be prepared for some serious level up on the BH. Man there is so much going on with that if you can work it into your flip. So much spin!! Just need to work in the counter hit and your on to the next levelLOL


Edited by V-Griper - 06/29/2015 at 11:19am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mhnh007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/29/2015 at 9:39am
The carbon layer in the video and in the picture at the online store does not show the 'fabric' texture like other ALC that I see.  I hope some one has the close up of the side of the blade to see more clearly.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/29/2015 at 8:52am
Originally posted by berkeleydoctor berkeleydoctor wrote:

NL, it's funny that you're going from wood blades to carbon and im going the opposite direction LOL

maybe we'll both switch back again soon

Well, I liked the Peter Pan - just not heavy enough.  Might still get one someday knowing me...

I just lack touch, which is why I use the wood blades - the vibrations let me know things.  But I know I have it all wrong mentally on the short strokes.  If I had good short pushes, drop shits and stop blocks, I would beat defenders much more easily.  If I fixed that, I think that wood blades could very well be a thing of the past for me - and my inventory would be cleared out.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/29/2015 at 8:48am
Originally posted by fatt fatt wrote:

so that's it? ok thanks.

The weight of the blade should be part of the op (of course we know from your current signature that it is 89g but if you change setups the info will be gone).

What I learn from your review is since kiri or paulownia ( core in the tbs and tb alc) has a 0.25 to 0.28 density and your blade's sycamore core is twice as dense, if we consider that koto and anigre work about the same on the outer plies then your blade should be faster at equivalent weights and plies thicknesses; but in the movie we see that the core of your blade is definitely on the thick side; that tells me the arylate carbon in that loop king could fall into or close to the soft carbon category; the woody feel with a strong sweet spot, unless the thick and dense sycamore makes it just too stiff.

Either way it seems the blade is a strong candidate for any control looper or allround player who wants some kick; the wise man's carbon blade.

Is it really your main one today? 


I switch back and forth but tend to favor the Evolution MX-S.  It taught me that Tenergy 05 Requires a Faster blade than what I currently use.

The real problem was the head heaviness.  That I could not cope with because it required me to be higher up on the blade/handle than I would like to be for my loose wrist strokes and that was not ideal for my FH/BH transition.  The power was ideal however - I was able to make some awesome shots from near mid distance  to the table that I usually just don't make.  With easy swings too.  I have one video where I just did some crazy things to the ball and in my mind, I was like... wow!  I usually can't do that as confidently with my all wood blades.

https://youtu.be/An5iXgG9ej0?t=240

(to place the video in context, I have been trying to work through a recommendation someone made about my finishing position for my backhand loop and I didn't really understand what he wanted at first, but I figured it out finally - watching that video was the key last step).

I saw Filip Szymanski's setup and he uses my favorite OFF wood blade (Force Pro) because he loves the control (hahahaha - sounds like me) but he did a handle modification with sandpaper on the conical flare to make it a straight handle.  Food for thought... where's that sander...










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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/29/2015 at 7:09am
Originally posted by cole_ely cole_ely wrote:

Until you play with it in a tournament, you don't really know how you'll like it.

I already did, if you read my review.  I played well with it. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote berkeleydoctor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/28/2015 at 10:51pm
NL, it's funny that you're going from wood blades to carbon and im going the opposite direction LOL

maybe we'll both switch back again soon
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cole_ely Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/28/2015 at 6:52pm
Until you play with it in a tournament, you don't really know how you'll like it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/11/2015 at 1:11am
Originally posted by schen schen wrote:

Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

If you go to the page for the Loop King and try the same translation, the same thing says "flurry", which may be "hurricane" for all I know.  What is the intent in English?

I believe it translates to what most companies call the "quick attack" style.  More emphasis on speed as opposed to spin and designed for at the table play I suppose.

Despite being thicker and using Anegre, it's actually slower than a Timo Boll Spirit.  So it's possible for a lighter style.  

Initial Review completed.


Edited by NextLevel - 06/11/2015 at 1:12am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote schen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/10/2015 at 6:56pm
Originally posted by Pondus Pondus wrote:

Welcome back, Schen Smile Let's play soon.
Also, do you know where DD is having their blades manufactured?

Thanks!  I'll be at the Learning Tree club this evening for the adult classes if you happen to be around!

And Double Day blades are manufactured in Taiwan.  Double Day's office, warehouse, and factory are all in the same building.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote schen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/10/2015 at 6:54pm
Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

If you go to the page for the Loop King and try the same translation, the same thing says "flurry", which may be "hurricane" for all I know.  What is the intent in English?

I believe it translates to what most companies call the "quick attack" style.  More emphasis on speed as opposed to spin and designed for at the table play I suppose.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/10/2015 at 2:46pm
" I am soon to be the exclusive distributor of Double Day in North America."

Congratulations.  Hope we will have a new good and cheaper alternative to the unreasonable prices being charged by certain brands currently.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pondus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/10/2015 at 2:43pm
Welcome back, Schen Smile Let's play soon.
Also, do you know where DD is having their blades manufactured?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/10/2015 at 2:41pm
Originally posted by schen schen wrote:

Originally posted by tom tom wrote:

an OEM should be able to duplicate a design they manufactured for a brand, but could they design any new blades without the acquired expertise?  Quality is one thing but how they play maybe another.  Or is it just a matter of slabbing together  certain materials (wood / fiber / carbon)?

Well they aren't in the business of making clones like Yinhe and other Chinese brands.  They are a Taiwanese brand, with ethics and quality more in line with Japan.

The DD gear I have are their own take on blades.  They also produce high quality 1-ply blades, using kiso hinoki and meniki among other cypress woods, but I did not bring back any samples of those with me.

I am currently testing the ZLC/ALC terminator and the ALC winner (koto/alc).  NextLevel is reviewing the third blade of the trio, the ALC loop king.  I will have my own impressions of the other blades after I spend more time with them.

If anyone else is interested in trying a new DD blade at discount, please PM me, as I am soon to be the exclusive distributor of Double Day in North America.  I am trying to get an idea of the market interest and impressions of the blades before I begin moving larger volumes to North America!

Schen,

If you go to the page for the Winner in the links that fatt provided, and you try to translate the page to English, you get a style for the winner called "Attack".  This makes sense.

If you go to the page for the Loop King and try the same translation, the same thing says "flurry", which may be "hurricane" for all I know.  What is the intent in English?


Edited by NextLevel - 06/10/2015 at 2:45pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote schen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/10/2015 at 2:37pm
Originally posted by tom tom wrote:

an OEM should be able to duplicate a design they manufactured for a brand, but could they design any new blades without the acquired expertise?  Quality is one thing but how they play maybe another.  Or is it just a matter of slabbing together  certain materials (wood / fiber / carbon)?

Well they aren't in the business of making clones like Yinhe and other Chinese brands.  They are a Taiwanese brand, with ethics and quality more in line with Japan.

The DD gear I have are their own take on blades.  They also produce high quality 1-ply blades, using kiso hinoki and meniki among other cypress woods, but I did not bring back any samples of those with me.

I am currently testing the ZLC/ALC terminator and the ALC winner (koto/alc).  NextLevel is reviewing the third blade of the trio, the ALC loop king.  I will have my own impressions of the other blades after I spend more time with them.

If anyone else is interested in trying a new DD blade at discount, please PM me, as I am soon to be the exclusive distributor of Double Day in North America.  I am trying to get an idea of the market interest and impressions of the blades before I begin moving larger volumes to North America!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 42andbackpains Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/10/2015 at 2:19pm
Originally posted by schen schen wrote:

The father and son carpentry team behind Double Day was the former OEM for very famous Japanese table tennis brands for over 20 years.  

Although the specific companies they made blades for is confidential, let's just say that when they stopped being an exclusive OEM for a particular brand, that brand started putting silver tags on the bottoms of their handles instead of the black ones to signify the change in partnership and manufacturing.

TT collectors will probably understand what I mean by "black tag."

Nice...so are you saying these blades will be in the black tag quality. How did you like your penhold with the zlc/alc combo?

Mind is willing, but the back goes out too often :P
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/10/2015 at 2:12pm
an OEM should be able to duplicate a design they manufactured for a brand, but could they design any new blades without the acquired expertise?  Quality is one thing but how they play maybe another.  Or is it just a matter of slabbing together  certain materials (wood / fiber / carbon)?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote schen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/10/2015 at 1:58pm
The father and son carpentry team behind Double Day was the former OEM for very famous Japanese table tennis brands for over 20 years.  

Although the specific companies they made blades for is confidential, let's just say that when they stopped being an exclusive OEM for a particular brand, that brand started putting silver tags on the bottoms of their handles instead of the black ones to signify the change in partnership and manufacturing.

TT collectors will probably understand what I mean by "black tag."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote asifgunz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/10/2015 at 1:34pm
Schen met with the owner of Double Day during his visit. Maybe he would know more


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 42andbackpains Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/10/2015 at 1:33pm
Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Originally posted by haggisv haggisv wrote:

Who actually makes this blade NL?




I believe Double Day is an OEM in Taiwan. They probably produced the Timo Boll ALC for a while as well (look at their Winner blade).

Maybe someone can get some history/background info of Double Day. 
Mind is willing, but the back goes out too often :P
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/09/2015 at 9:39pm
Originally posted by haggisv haggisv wrote:

Who actually makes this blade NL?




I believe Double Day is an OEM in Taiwan. They probably produced the Timo Boll ALC for a while as well (look at their Winner blade).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote haggisv Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/09/2015 at 9:34pm
Who actually makes this blade NL?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote asifgunz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/09/2015 at 9:06pm
To each his own.


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