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Stiga Carbonado 145 Review: Beware!

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ashishsharmaait View Drop Down
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    Posted: 06/09/2015 at 1:40am
Edit: Added high resolution photos of defects.

Images:
1. You can see the joint and the different directions of the grain. Both faces have a joint (WTF!)
2. You can see the knots and a slight rough mark on the other face
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2OvJBMREql8bW96RkF5SjFnUTl3WklSV2FjcFVZN2o4Y2Q4/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2OvJBMREql8RkItRXVGMzFIQnRNR2NROWYzNnFpR0ZMWFE4/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2OvJBMREql8aUNEUjVIclh4OUliTkpIZzd2RFhpeDUxck1R/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2OvJBMREql8aDdCV0R2d1B6WlRWSVdiLU1JVkVCMFZITWtR/view?usp=sharing

Stiga's reply to Dandoy Sports:

Hi Romain,
I´am fin thanks, and I hope the same for you. I have discussed with product manager Jonas Wilén (he is out of office for holiday) and he informs that we cannot accept this claim.

For further questions in this matter, kindly contact directly with Jonas.
Thanks.

With best regards/Med vänliga hälsningar

Carina Forsberg
Export Department

I also got a confirmation from Stiga which said:

1. Wood used in Stiga blades undergoes thorough treatment in a long process to ensure consistency. The pictures show what is natural variation in the wood before it was processed and will not affect playability.
2. All blades are inspected by expert craftsmen with many years of experience to ensure that they are manufactured to the highest of standards.

Buyers beware! Your money is better spent on other brands.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
About the reviewer:
~2050 USATT, loops from both wings and plays close to the table. Owned ZLF, ZLC, SZLC, Vega Euro, NCT V and some Chinese blades.

Price: Euro 117.71 from Dandoy Sports, great seller with fast shipping. Paid for the blade unlike a lot of reviewers on this forum (cough cough!)
Packaging: Good packaging. Attractive box.
Weight: 85g for Legend Flared Handle
Thickness: 5.84mm
Rubbers for test: H3 Provincial 39 / Fastarc C1

Blade quality:
Extremely Poor! 2 knots of around 0.5 cm each on one blade face. A joint nearly towards the middle of the blade on the other blade face. Whereas manufacturers like Xiom and Donic have come up with jointless wood on the blade face, Stiga decided to put one right towards the middle of the blade. Wow!
(Let me know if you want pics.)

Speed: 2 notches faster than TB ALC. A notch slower than TB ZLC. A notch faster than Xiom Vega Euro/Pro.

Feel: Stiff and hard. There is some feedback but not as much as what is claimed in some reviews. There is definitely lesser feedback compared to both TB ALC and Xiom Vega series. The carbon layer although supposed to be thin is thicker than both ZJ SZLC and Xiom Vega Series.

Control/Play: This is a fast blade. It is not uncontrollable, but is still a fast blade and suits players who play mid-distance to mid-far. There is not a lot of catapult as the blade is stiff so it is not very powerful from far distance. Close to the table, I get the feeling that there is not enough dwell although it is supposed to be a limba blade. Butterfly Koto blades like TB ALC have much greater dwell and ZLC has just a little less dwell. Xiom Vega Euro and Pro both have more dwell.
Blocking is good due to crisp feeling, fast speed and clear contact.

Recommendations: I would not recommend this blade to anyone. Xiom Vega Euro has a similar feel and is nearly half the price. The Donic WC Waldner 89 has 2 notches softer feeling with the same characteristics at half the price. The construction quality is poor and does not justify the high price. It would be heresy to compare the quality of this blade with any Butterfly blade.








Edited by ashishsharmaait - 07/02/2015 at 3:07am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote haggisv Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/09/2015 at 2:28am
Wow, knots on the blade face Shocked

yes a picture would be great!


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ashishsharmaait Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/09/2015 at 5:02am
And I wrote to Dandoy about this asking for a refund/replacement on June/4. Yet to hear from them. I will keep everyone posted to what they have to say.
If these are handmade blades, it makes you question the workmanship of the maker :)


Edited by ashishsharmaait - 06/09/2015 at 5:04am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/09/2015 at 6:40am
I didn't like it either, I'm not sure why.  If you are used to a Btfly ALC you won't like this blade, it will feel too hard.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ashishsharmaait Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/09/2015 at 8:07am
Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

I didn't like it either, I'm not sure why.  If you are used to a Btfly ALC you won't like this blade, it will feel too hard.

..and the godly feedback from the blade which everyone is praising is just not there.
It is just a stiff piece of timber not even in the same league as Butterfly or Nittaku blade even though the prices are so.

My prediction is that this blade will go out like Calibra Tour Rubbers and we will see some huge discounts soon. Initial talk of pros using it and all and it being a hit, but going for 1/3 the usual retail in the end and distributors still not able to get rid of their stock.

Edited by ashishsharmaait - 06/09/2015 at 8:13am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote slevin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/09/2015 at 8:29am
Ashish, it is possible that you might have received a atypical piece. I tried the 145 - it was a touch flexier than Viscaria & had great feedback.

I gave it up because the carbon made it a longer trajectory blade & I was already using fast rubbers.

But my blade seemed to have the grain go in a knot-like fashion as well (though it played perfectly OK).

Shame on Stiga - I don't know why they are bent on harming their brand (that used to have a good name).

I'm not buying their blades anymore after all the horror stories.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ashishsharmaait Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/09/2015 at 10:13am
Originally posted by slevin slevin wrote:

Ashish, it is possible that you might have received a atypical piece. I tried the 145 - it was a touch flexier than Viscaria & had great feedback.

Maybe I got an atypical piece...but at 120 Euros it better not be atypical especially if Stiga claims its handmade and that they have upped their game. This will probably be the last Stiga blade I buy.
I don't want to say BUYERS BEWARE! yet, but if Stiga can't give a straight piece of wood (without joints or knots) for 150 Euros, there's a problem.
I have owned some BTY, Xiom, TSP, Yinhe, Donic and DHS blades and I have never seen a knot on the blade face even on a $10 Yinhe MC-2 (I had 2 pieces).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/09/2015 at 10:15am
ashish, not talking about build quality (mine was good), not going into all your perceptions  on the dwell and feel , the bottom line - do you land more shots in a game with the 145 vs. TB ALC and the Vega(s) and others in your comparison?  For offensive blades, aside from Barwell Fleet, I land the most with the 145. I do agree the retail price is a bit high (for what you get) but the butterfly ones are even more so.

Edited by tom - 06/09/2015 at 10:17am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/09/2015 at 10:29am
Originally posted by tom tom wrote:

ashish, not talking about build quality (mine was good), not going into all your perceptions  on the dwell and feel , the bottom line - do you land more shots in a game with the 145 vs. TB ALC and the Vega(s) and others in your comparison?  For offensive blades, aside from Barwell Fleet, I land the most with the 145. I do agree the retail price is a bit high (for what you get) but the butterfly ones are even more so.

Agreed.  That said, I gave up on blades with pure carbon and no dampeners (Arylate, Zylon) a while back because the kick just felt more than I liked when looping hard. 
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ashishsharmaait Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/09/2015 at 12:00pm
I don't land more shots with any blade. I land lesser shots with faster + Stiffer blades and Carbonado is faster and stiffer than ALC/Vega Euro because my service return is less good with these and the opponent can return my receive/touch better.

My game is extremely simple and depends on 3 simple things:
1. Serve short (usually) or long (surprise) and try to get the opening attacking ball on my FH (90% of the table)
2. Keep short serve return short to FH or middle. Get the ball to my FH (90% of the table)
3. Loop/counter loop anything outside the table if its not fast enough and I can reach it.

In my opinion one can do everything except short service return with any blade and landing more shots is just about choosing how much of the blade or rubber to use. With a Off/Off- blade you can use more wood more often when attacking which is more comforting for my close to the table/mid-distance offensive game.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/09/2015 at 12:12pm
Mine had a knot too.  But only one.  I don't think it affected play.  Did I keep as many shots on the table with the thing compared to my old Viscaria?  Hard to say without careful charting.  But it felt strange as can be.  Of course all of this is a matter of taste.  But if you like Butterfly ALC blades you won't like this, at least not without a pretty long adjustment period.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ashishsharmaait Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/09/2015 at 12:33pm
Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

Mine had a knot too.  But only one.

Did your blade have joints? Mine has a joint on each face :(
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/09/2015 at 12:34pm
"In my opinion one can do everything except short service return with any blade and landing more shots is just about choosing how much of the blade or rubber to use. With a Off/Off- blade you can use more wood more often when attacking which is more comforting for my close to the table/mid-distance offensive game."  -  No comment, this is like saying a blade is not fast or slow, because the speed is dictated by the player.  With that trend of thought then all these equipment forums should not even exist.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/09/2015 at 12:55pm
Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

Mine had a knot too.  But only one.  I don't think it affected play.  Did I keep as many shots on the table with the thing compared to my old Viscaria?  Hard to say without careful charting.  But it felt strange as can be.  Of course all of this is a matter of tasteBut if you like Butterfly ALC blades you won't like this, at least not without a pretty long adjustment period.

Exactly.
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ashishsharmaait Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/09/2015 at 12:57pm
Originally posted by tom tom wrote:

"In my opinion one can do everything except short service return with any blade and landing more shots is just about choosing how much of the blade or rubber to use. With a Off/Off- blade you can use more wood more often when attacking which is more comforting for my close to the table/mid-distance offensive game."  -  No comment, this is like saying a blade is not fast or slow, because the speed is dictated by the player.  With that trend of thought then all these equipment forums should not even exist.

Its also a matter of comfort. if you play close to close mid-distance and have an all round offensive style a blade with medium hardness and medium softness might suit you. That is the style I play.
If you play close exclusively and play counter/counter-loop, a harder and stiffer carbon blade might suit.
If you play mid to far, a fast and flexible blade like Hayabusa Zxi might be good.

All I am saying is that for an all round offensive player, playing close to close-mid distance, and who relies on touch and placement to win points, most blades which are ALL+ to OFF+ should be good with ALL+ to OFF being better than OFF+.
I do not know of any all round offensive player in my circle who prefers a blade with different characteristics so maybe my opinion is not correct.
Oh and yes, it is a matter of taste. Always.



Edited by ashishsharmaait - 06/09/2015 at 12:59pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote haggisv Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/10/2015 at 6:42pm
Originally posted by ashishsharmaait ashishsharmaait wrote:

Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

Mine had a knot too.  But only one.

Did your blade have joints? Mine has a joint on each face :(

Are those really joints? It's hard to see from the picture, if they are actually two pieces glued together or not. That's not common for an outer ply....


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/10/2015 at 6:59pm
It is pretty clear to me that they're joints.  In the second picture, the seam is consistently straight and well-defined.  In the third picture, the grain alone is enough evidence for a death sentence.
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ashishsharmaait Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/10/2015 at 10:21pm
I have still not got a reply from Dandoy if they are going to replace it. They of course have the same pictures. Keeping my fingers crossed.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TurboZ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/11/2015 at 7:21am
I see they have this policy of no questions ask refund or exchange within 14 days provide everything is in its original form and you have to pay the return postage.
 
I got much worst knot problem on my RW and EB and also joints seem to be quite common with them. May be Stiga care less about how they look but how they play. I think that is always a price to pay for buying online with deep discount.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ashishsharmaait Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/11/2015 at 7:29am
The thing is that I sent them an email and waited for a week. They said that they would let me know and took 6 days to reply. I have since glued it once. Luckily I sent them the pics before gluing from my cell phone and have sent them high quality pics of the samefrom my DSLR after gluing.
By the letter since I have used it and also 14 days have expired, I am not eligible for a refund.
...but since I sent them the pics of the same defect before gluing and it is clearly a manufacturing defect, I am hoping to get a rebate on my next purchase or a replacement from Stiga.
I do not hold Dandoy responsible for this as much as Stiga.

Edited by ashishsharmaait - 06/11/2015 at 7:30am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TurboZ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/11/2015 at 8:47am
I don't think Stiga or Dandoy will refer to knots and joints as defects as they are quite common with their products. Since Dandoy has this no questions ask refund and exchange policy, I see no reason you won't get it except you had it glued. Things can get a little complicated if they go by the rules. The worst scenario is that you waste your return postage and they reject your claim. Good luck.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ashishsharmaait Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/11/2015 at 8:51am
I have added high-resolution photos. They seem like defects to me. How common are these joints (on both faces) of a blade with grains in different directions?


Edited by ashishsharmaait - 06/11/2015 at 8:51am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TurboZ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/11/2015 at 9:13am
There are lots of talks of it in Chinese forums over the years. And the thread who bought two 145 cpen with pretty bad joints says it all.
 
I have many Stiga blades and many have rubbers glued so I can't show them here. The following pic is some of them.
 


Edited by TurboZ - 06/11/2015 at 9:26am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chicane Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/13/2015 at 4:34am
I did order a Carbonado 145 from Dandoy as well. Without getting into micro details, I can say that I was a little put-off by the quality vs. price. The edges of the handle and the neck were a little too rough. I've played with it about a dozen times four hours.

In terms of play, I tried it with Calibra LT Plus, LT Spin, and the Rakza 7 Soft. The blade plays better as you soften the rubber w/ the Rakza been the better of the 3. Control is wild w/ faster rubbers, and I still feel like i need  even softer rubbers to adequately spin and be in control. The blade flexes beyond my liking and this results in hitting out more often. It also requires considerable adjustment when flattening things out. It's speed is deceptively fast because the flexing makes it seem a little slower with dwelling but the end product is a very fast catapulting w/ medium arching ball. It has plenty of feel, and contact on any part of the blade produces the same lively feedback...this is a contradicting point for me because finding the smaller sweet spot is part of the signs of a good hit. Here you have to rely more on the sound feedback from softer rubbers to tell if you are connecting correctly. When i did connect correctly though, it was very nice. 

My preferred blade is the Carbo 7.6 WRB w/ Calibra LT Spin. I have much better control with that one and the cutting point is the lack of flexing in the 7.6, the flexing and the throw on the Carbonado 145 just throws me off. At the time of testing, I also used the TB ALC w/ Tenergy 05 & 05 Fx, and TSP Campione w/ T05 & T64Fx, The Gergly Alpha w/ Razka 7 Soft & T05. I would pick any of those any day over the Carbonado 145. I simply like the blade to be firm and stiff and i might have been better off w/ 190.

This carbonado 145 has some positive attribute that might give an edge to the players that knows how to manipulate it well - w/ proper repetitive brushing technique. It is distinct from anything I have tried this far so it might develop fans, or it might never take ff. Of the dozen or so of players that asked to try it, 2 seemed to play better with it and are considering a switch, where the rest are in my same boat. Many are lured in by the marketing but offset by the price. 1 of the better players who uses the the ZJ JLC and T05 & T64Fx played better with it and i was surprised w/ higher & faster loops he was creating...but he insists that he would put those Tenergy rubbers on it if he were to buy it. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote unstopabl3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/01/2015 at 4:53pm
Thanks for this informative thread, good thing I have not ordered anything from Stiga, was going to order a blade, but this thread has put me off from doing that a bit.

Edit:

Could it possibly be a bad batch and not all blades have these issues?


Edited by unstopabl3 - 07/01/2015 at 6:33pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote ashishsharmaait Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/01/2015 at 10:55pm
I know 1 other person whose blades have knots. So 2 out of 3 people I know who have these blades have some sort of a problem.
I contacted Stiga through FB and they said that the top ply they use is specially treated through a long process so it plays the same, but they did not say anything about the seams.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ashishsharmaait Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/01/2015 at 10:59pm
Updated post.

Edited by ashishsharmaait - 07/02/2015 at 3:07am
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Originally posted by ashishsharmaait ashishsharmaait wrote:

I know 1 other person whose blades have knots. So 2 out of 3 people I know who have these blades have some sort of a problem.
I contacted Stiga through FB and they said that the top ply they use is specially treated through a long process so it plays the same, but they did not say anything about the seams.


Any chance that all of you ordered from the same vendor???

And is this issue restricted to this particular stiga product or have you guys had bad experience with stiga blades in general?


Edited by unstopabl3 - 07/02/2015 at 8:08am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ashishsharmaait Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/02/2015 at 8:28am
Originally posted by unstopabl3 unstopabl3 wrote:

Originally posted by ashishsharmaait ashishsharmaait wrote:

I know 1 other person whose blades have knots. So 2 out of 3 people I know who have these blades have some sort of a problem.
I contacted Stiga through FB and they said that the top ply they use is specially treated through a long process so it plays the same, but they did not say anything about the seams.


Any chance that all of you ordered from the same vendor???

And is this issue restricted to this particular stiga product or have you guys had bad experience with stiga blades in general?


We ordered from different vendors.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BB-Big Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/02/2015 at 9:10am
I bought 5 hi-end Stiga blades (carbonado and emerald) online from Sweden without any issues. Good quality. But 1 Emerlad blade bought from vendor in Belgium has a crack line in half of the blade outer veneer.
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