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Which blade should I upgrade to? |
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unstopabl3
Silver Member Joined: 06/16/2011 Status: Offline Points: 685 |
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Posted: 06/30/2015 at 8:54am |
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I've read a lot of comparisons and reviews regarding the following blades but I'm still confused which one would suit me the best.
Here are the ones I have picked: Butterfly Timo Boll ALC Butterfly Timo Boll Spirit Butterfly Viscaria Background: My last two blades were Ma Lin Soft Carbon and Ma Lin Extra Offensive. I really liked their flared handles and their weight which was above 85g. My game is attack style, with emphasis on 3rd ball attacks and topspin/sidespin rallies. I counter and pushblock with my backhand as my backhand is not as good as my FH. I mostly play close to the table or mid distance. So I'm looking for something which has a great flared handle similar to these blades and weighs above 85g as I'm used to it. I want the blade which has enough spin and speed for fast rallies close and far away from the table but also good control when it comes to short game-play such as pushing or blocking passively. I'll either use Rakza 7 / Rakza X on the blade or switch to Tenergy 05 or any other highly rated rubbers in either 2.0mm or max thickness and at some point I might try H3 Neo as well. So I don't want a blade which will become head heavy if I use any of these rubbers. Question: So which one out of these three would you recommend??? I'm leaning towards TBS and Viscaria as I've read ALC has a smaller handle right? P.S If you have any other blade suggestion according to my requirements and it is not more than $150, let me know. Edited by unstopabl3 - 06/30/2015 at 9:04am |
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NextLevel
Forum Moderator Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14842 |
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These blades are largely the same. Even for the handle, the Viscaria is the outlier and the TBS and the TB ALC are largely the same (some would argue identical). Just grab one in your club and put it in your hand. And if you use it and like it, there is no guarantee that the next one will play exactly like it, but they usually play fairly similarly.
The Viscaria has a smaller head, so that might tip the scales but don't think that will buy you much.
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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vivan4tt
Super Member Joined: 11/07/2008 Location: France Status: Offline Points: 234 |
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None of the blade will have a large FL handle like YEO. I own all the mentioned blades (but in ST for TBS and TBalc) and with modern tensors in 2.0mm, they are all head heavy.
The more balanced viscaria-like blade I have used is the ZJK (blue dragon).
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Mizutani sZLC / T05fx / T05fx
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unstopabl3
Silver Member Joined: 06/16/2011 Status: Offline Points: 685 |
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What do you mean by "Viscaria is the outlier". That's one problem that most players in my club have Nittaku, Yasaka or Donic blades, so I can't really try the three I mentioned before I make the purchase and purchasing more than one at this point in time is not feasible. If viscaria has smaller head, would that make it less head heavy and more controlled blade??? Btw TB ALC is the latest out of these right??? |
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unstopabl3
Silver Member Joined: 06/16/2011 Status: Offline Points: 685 |
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I see you are currently using YEO, is that in flared or straight? How would you compare YEO with any of these three blades??? Is is easier to transition from a Flared handle to a straight handle, that is if I go for a straight handle assuming that would be bigger than the flared version? |
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crackfst
Super Member Joined: 02/23/2013 Location: Milky Way Status: Offline Points: 365 |
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Butterfly Timo Boll ALC, Butterfly Timo Boll Spirit are basically slightly altered Viscarias.
Boll used to play with Viscaria too As a mainly 3rd ball attacker, why would you consider either of those and "upgrade", If you are able to try one of these out I'd do that first if I were you. The main difference you'll probably notice is that the slightly larger more forgiving sweet-spot and a bit less feel and touch, those are usually the trade-offs with stiffer composite blades vs all woods(I dont know the yasaka soft Carbon, but what exactly is the point of using soft Carbon doesnt that defeat the purpose of the carbon layer?) Thats the whole point of Carbon layers, make the blade stiffer with bigger sweetspot without making it too thick
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Darker Speed 90 Jpen
Tenergy 64 |
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vivan4tt
Super Member Joined: 11/07/2008 Location: France Status: Offline Points: 234 |
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I 'm using/testing nexy Zealot right now with some Xiom rubbers, but didn't updated signature :D
My YEO is FL handle. I enjoy both FL and ST handle, I don't have any preference to be honest. I don't know if my YEO (88gr) is crazy fast, but yeah the YEO I am using is faster than my ALC viscaria-like blades (except one of my ZJK blue dragon, which is, I don't know why, really faster than my other viscaria-like butterfly blades, even faster than my two Mizutani Jun ZLC blades....). Sweet spot is smaller for YEO but the all wood feel is superior. If i have some time, i'll post you a picture of handles tonight. I also own a TB W7 in FL, the FL handle is basically the same than TBalc FL. So maybe that will give you a good idea for the handle if you can not test them yourself. The best BTY handle remains for me the ST handle of the Maze (comfortable, big), I even own a custom made King Linghui special with Maze ST handle shape :D Right after this handle, comes the ZJK (blue dragon) FL handle shape (I think it's the same handle shape as the Lui Shiwen). Wait for my pictures :)
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Mizutani sZLC / T05fx / T05fx
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unstopabl3
Silver Member Joined: 06/16/2011 Status: Offline Points: 685 |
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Thanks that will be a great help, I'll appreciate if you can take similar pics for YEO, TB ALC, TBS and Viscaria so that it will be easier to compare their heads and handles. Which one out of YEO, TB ALC, TBS and Viscaria would you say has the biggest sweet spot and easiest to do killshots? |
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unstopabl3
Silver Member Joined: 06/16/2011 Status: Offline Points: 685 |
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The blade I'm currently using is YEO and it has carbon layers in it, I like how it plays but I think its a bit slow especially far away from the table. Maybe it's due to my Rakza 7 or maybe the blade itself is slow. Are any of the blades I mentioned in my OP faster than YEO away from the table??? And which one has the largest sweet spot??? Ultimately I will opt for the one which is a mix of speed, large sweet spot and great control out of these blades, so which one would you say that is? |
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unstopabl3
Silver Member Joined: 06/16/2011 Status: Offline Points: 685 |
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Also which of these would you say has a similar head size to the YEO??? From the pictures I've seen it looks like TBS and TB ALC have a bigger head size and Viscaria seems more close to YEO size??? |
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zettalith
Super Member Joined: 08/01/2009 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 109 |
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I would say just go with TBS to save money. They are all pretty similar.
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IFL ZLC,Rasant g,Rasant g
YEO,TG2,T64 |
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andras
Super Member Joined: 07/26/2012 Location: italy Status: Offline Points: 225 |
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animus blade, neptune "ayrlate/ALC" version
see my post |
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ahsq
Silver Member Joined: 04/07/2015 Location: The flushing Y Status: Offline Points: 527 |
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BTY cost 50% more because of its name. Like Apple Iphones, I skipped that and looked for a 1+1.
F BTY, get Donic.
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FS:
Xiom Vega Pro ST 85 grams $80 shipped Donic Waldner Senso Carbo JO shaped ST $40 shipped |
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piligrim
Premier Member Joined: 06/21/2011 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 5305 |
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Viscaria has most comfortable handle between all blades I used (a lot).
it a bit longer than regular handle and wider. for sure wider and longer than TB ALC. I own both of them. |
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Argothman
Silver Member Joined: 12/20/2013 Location: The stars Status: Offline Points: 551 |
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I can attest, the Viscaria handle is very comfortable if you like bigger, more solid handles. When I hold the Butterfly Korbel it feels skinny and small in comparison.
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unstopabl3
Silver Member Joined: 06/16/2011 Status: Offline Points: 685 |
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What about TBS handle compared with Viscaria and then TB ALC handle compared with TBS??? |
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piligrim
Premier Member Joined: 06/21/2011 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 5305 |
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never had TBS |
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chop4ever
Silver Member Joined: 08/10/2012 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 812 |
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I think the YEO is not suitable for your current game, maybe the Malin Sotf Carbon would do better. YEO gives you control but on the other hand, its hi-throw and late dwelling-time will fail you in close games, esp in your passive backhand. If you still have that problem, then don't move on to any ALCs, but you should try some wooden 7 plies blades, such as Clipper Wood or similar to. They will serve you well on Bh passive block and Fh close to table attack. |
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There is no real "pro", "prov" or "NT" H3 in the market.
Falco is not a booster |
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yogi_bear
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try the Adidas Strike Wood Carbon, has one of the best handles in the market and also the speed is quite good
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Independent online TT Product reviewer of XIOM, STIGA, JOOLA, SANWEI, GEWO, AIR, ITC, APEX, YASAKA and ABROS
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unstopabl3
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From experience I felt that Ma Lin SC was a bit slower than YEO, I do agree it had better control and feel though. Which clipper wood would you recommend as there are a few variations of models out there. |
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unstopabl3
Silver Member Joined: 06/16/2011 Status: Offline Points: 685 |
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Hello Yogi, do you mean this blade: https://www.megaspin.net/store/default.asp?pid=adidas-strike-carbon If you do, isn't it a bit too stiff and the handle looks quite long, how would you compare it's flared handle with YEO??? And how would you compare this blade with the butterfly options I've mentioned? Edited by unstopabl3 - 07/01/2015 at 9:15am |
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vivan4tt
Super Member Joined: 11/07/2008 Location: France Status: Offline Points: 234 |
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Here are pictures I've just taken. TBS and TBalc are clones so I didn't put my TBalc. Unfortunately I don't own TBS or TBalc in FL handle (only have ST), because I prefer ST for those blades (FL is too much thin in the middle). See here : http://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2015/27/1435754246-20150701-143055.jpg http://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2015/27/1435754291-20150701-143134.jpg http://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2015/27/1435754286-20150701-143148.jpg http://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2015/27/1435754292-20150701-143203.jpg The viscaria FL is really thin in the middle compared to TBS ST and YEO. What matters to me is not FL or ST but it is to have a large handle, including the middle of the handle, just like YEO and I have it with TBS ST or TBalc ST or the YEO FL but not with viscaria FL. Sweet spot is the same for TBS/TBalc and viscaria, plus all of those blade I own plays very very similar. YEO has a smaller sweet spot but still a very good one imho. I never felt, while playing, the lack of bigger sweet spot with the YEO, I d'ont think you should consider the bigger sweet spot of BTY alc blades as a huge advantage over YEO. It is really easy to do kill shots with all those blades, but once again I really think that my YEO is faster than the "average" YEO (I used to have 10+ YEO's, I've done COR measurments for all of them and I only kept the faster one). I even gave my blade to a friend (ranked about #170 in France, playing TBzlc) and he found my YEO to be faster than his TBzlc, he was thinking I was boosting my rubbers at the beginning and it is not the case, he offered to buy my YEO for more than what I paid for.......but kept the YEO. With my technique and the rubbers I'm using, I generate more spin with YEO than with the viscaria-like blades, the throw (with my technique) is also higher with YEO. It's with my technique once again, maybe with your technique you will generate more spin with a viscaria but I do think that YEO is a true spin monster while Viscaria-like blades are very good carbon blades for spin, but still can't compare to 5 ply all wood blades when you consider spin. Concerning the head size, to me the TBS/Viscaria and TBalc have the same head size. I don't have tools to measure it but it looks the same to me since many times I have switch rubbers from blade to blades, and YEO has a very very similar head size (no problem switching rubbers between YEO and Viscaria/TBS/Tbalc. I hope it will help you and feel free to ask anything. edit : just saw that you are considering Clipper. I own a Clipper CR WRB in Legend handle (it a "stiga special" blade, but I do belive that the legend handle is the same even for commercial clippers), it is a very large FL handle just like YEO, feels amazing in the hand. If you want pictures to compare the clipper legend handle to YEO, just ask ;)
Edited by vivan4tt - 07/01/2015 at 9:20am |
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Mizutani sZLC / T05fx / T05fx
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unstopabl3
Silver Member Joined: 06/16/2011 Status: Offline Points: 685 |
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Edited by unstopabl3 - 07/01/2015 at 9:17am |
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unstopabl3
Silver Member Joined: 06/16/2011 Status: Offline Points: 685 |
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Wow what a nice reply was not expecting it, you've explained it perfectly and thanks a bunch for the pics. I can clearly see what you mean by the thin handle of the viscaria, which I'm not liking as well from the pictures. Maybe it plays similarly or maybe I won't like it as much as I like YEO. Out of these blades which one do you think has the best control? And the best speed from mid distant? And which one is able to pair up best with the latest rubbers such as tenergy, rakza 7, adidas rubbers etc? That's good to know that your YEO plays better, is it a JTTA version or the regular one? Where did you order it from and how much does it weigh? Not sure how you did the COR testing, care to elaborate on that please? I got mine from TT11 and it's 86g I think, I feel it's a bit slow as you move away from the table, but maybe that's due to beaten up Rakza 7's who knows :P Which rubbers have you tried on YEO and which was the best combo in your opinion? I ask because I'm leaning towards ordering another YEO which is currently only $35 or it's faster version the Power 7 which is $50, have you had any experience with Power 7? P.S Sure I will love to see the comparison of the handle and the head of YEO and Clipper if you can show me the pics of your blades that would be awesome! Edited by unstopabl3 - 07/01/2015 at 9:47am |
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vivan4tt
Super Member Joined: 11/07/2008 Location: France Status: Offline Points: 234 |
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Hehe, I own the yeo 7 power also. I've written a review for this blade here :
http://www.tabletennisdaily.co.uk/equipment/blades/10557-extra-offensive-7-power You can see pictures here for the clipper legend handle compared with viscaria fl and yeo fl : http://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2015/27/1435759602-20150701-160251.jpg http://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2015/27/1435759595-20150701-160300.jpg http://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2015/27/1435760059-20150701-160815.jpg I owned 5 or 6 JTTAA YEO, and now from a sure source, I have the confirmation that there is no quality selection from yasaka between JTTAA and european YEO's. But as you can see, one one of my picture, the Clipper I own is a "stiga special", those blade are made for pro players and are not meant to be commercialized. I was lucky enough to have this blade thanks to a gift, and it plays amazing, faster and much higher throw than the commercial clippers I've tried. People will always think that JTTAA is better, but believe me, there is no selection betwwen YEO's for European market or Japanese market, I know it from a sure source. And it doesn't mean that it is true for every manufacturer, but for Yasaka it is. I know also that Yasaka is also doing special YEO's, just like that Special Clipper I own. I'm trying to get one since I know it (and I prefer to wait than taking the risk of buying a fake) but don't have it yet, so I'm not able to compare to the special YEO and the commercial YEO. To test the COR, I've done a static test, letting the ball fall to the blades (with rubbers and without rubbers, it didn't changed the ranking of my various YEOs) from various heights (here also even if the COR is not the same for a given blade, I depends of the impacting ball speed, the ranking between various YEO didn't changed also, making my life easier lol ). The higher the bounce, the bigger the static COR. All my YEO's were between 84 and 89gr, the One I kept, the faster, was 88gr. And yes, there was a correlation between COR (representing speed) and weight. That doesn't mean that a 88gr YEO is for sure faster than a 84gr one, but most likely it will be. I've bought so many YEO's from many different retailers, because I wanted them in a specific weight range, I'm not able to tell you from were the one I kept was bought. But for sure not from tt-japan (since all their YEO are JTTAA) and I kept one from Euro market. So considering power 7, it's faster than the YEO I own, truly off+. But the touch is a bit to hard and direct for my taste, I prefer the YEO which has more flex and all wood feeling. But considering carbon blades, this one is a very very good one. It is not a YEO + carbon, It is a different outer ply. The blade look is outstanding btw :D I think that the control is similar between a YEO and a Viscaria-like blade, those are fast blades, good control for the speed speed, and good feeling also. Considering rubbers, YEO as well as Viscaria-like blades are a good match for any rubbers with a decent hardness (at least 42deg on euro scale). Tried Bluefires M1Turbo/M1/M2, Tenegies 05/64/80 and various other rubbers (MX-P, many Xiom rubbers), all were a good match. I'm not using nor testing soft rubbers. You migh give a try to Sigma II europe on your YEO, I hardly believe you will lack speed or spin with such a combination, most certainly my futur combination, still and always testing during summer, but nothing beats so far YEO + Sigma II europe on BH and FH, except maybe Omega V tour on FH, still need to test. YEO + Vega Japan is also great, but I generate less spin (with my technique) than I do with Sigma II europe. All of those advices are for C-ball (because we will stick with the C-ball next season in France). But from what I heard Xiom rubbers are as good with C-ball and P-ball, while bluefires are better with C-ball. Tenergies are good also, but untuned they are lacking speed for my taste.
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Mizutani sZLC / T05fx / T05fx
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unstopabl3
Silver Member Joined: 06/16/2011 Status: Offline Points: 685 |
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Wow, I see what you mean by "Large" handle haha, that is one large handle indeed. Is the Master handle smaller and similar to YEO handle or is that too small??? Good for you to score that special Clipper, I've not played with it so don't know about it really. So how does it play? Control, speed??? And how would you compare it with YEO and butterfly blades??? And what's the difference between these variations of clipper: http://www.tabletennis11.com/other_eng/stiga-clipper-cr-wrb http://www.tabletennis11.com/other_eng/stiga-clipper-wrb http://www.tabletennis11.com/other_eng/stiga-clipper-cr Is the Clipper CR WRB the best of the lot? I had already read your review on YEO Power 7, what a coincidence :P The YEO blades I bought were always from TT11 and I plan to order the Power 7 version from it as well and ask them to send me anything between 86-90g, what are your thoughts? Always wanted to try Stiga blades as they look sexy and have many good reviews such as Emerald VPS V, Infinity VPS V and the Carbonado 145. Have you tried any of these??? I might order YEO Power 7 and one other blade, so open to suggestions guys which of these would be best for me as per my requirements in my OP: Clipper CR WRB Butterfly Viscaria Adidas Strike Wood Carbon Emerald VPS V Infinity VPS V Stiga Carbonado 145 Anything better than these in under $150??? Thanks |
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unstopabl3
Silver Member Joined: 06/16/2011 Status: Offline Points: 685 |
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Yogi, I've read your reviews about the Hypertouch and Strike Wood, it seems strike wood is too thick and too fast. Would you say Hypertouch is more controllable and has good enough speed power? Also how would you rate the Stiga blades I've mentioned??? Edited by unstopabl3 - 07/01/2015 at 4:12pm |
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Hautamaeki
Member Joined: 12/14/2013 Location: Portugal Status: Offline Points: 78 |
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I used YEO...now I use Infinity VPS...not a upgrade, just feel better with Infinity.
doesnt lack feeling doesnt lack power or/and speed doesnt lack control (watever it means) bottom line, if you like the feeling, you wont let it go, it has everything you need. Edited by Hautamaeki - 07/01/2015 at 4:58pm |
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chop4ever
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You will find that Clipper Wood is even slower than YEO somehow. I recommend Clipper Wood (non CR or WRB) Legend handle, whichever is thinner than 6.5mm |
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There is no real "pro", "prov" or "NT" H3 in the market.
Falco is not a booster |
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yogi_bear
Forum Moderator Joined: 11/25/2004 Location: Philippines Status: Offline Points: 7219 |
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Hypertouch is like a slower Viscaria with a softer feel. I dunno if you would like it.
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Independent online TT Product reviewer of XIOM, STIGA, JOOLA, SANWEI, GEWO, AIR, ITC, APEX, YASAKA and ABROS
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