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Identify fake DHS National blade eg. W997 |
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minja 
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Joined: 07/08/2015 Location: here Status: Offline Points: 93 |
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 Posted: 08/16/2015 at 12:35am |
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you are right, I will not waste more time in this thread with people who think that
-they can create a factory in china to replicate w997 blade exactly -employees from dhs can secretly create these w997 blades with the same production line as hl5 -w997 is a great blade my thoughts and the truth for the last time (unless I see proof of contrary): -the w997, w968, hurricane long v are all created by dhs with directions from the company itself. -w997 is not preferred by most players, hence the market for it is not big. just check chinese players on videos and pictures, you rarely see one using w997 or w968. Edited by minja - 08/16/2015 at 12:48am |
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MLfan
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Joined: 04/23/2015 Location: China Status: Offline Points: 486 |
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Posted: 08/16/2015 at 1:05am |
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1. ofc they can't make a factory to replicate w997 blade EXACTLY. If such a company exists, then DHS would've been taken over long ago. What other companies can create are replicas that are inferior to the original. The DHS company produces the real "national" blades, but the higher-up employees can have the DHS research facilities (these research facilities contain students who can make close copies of the national blades) make them "replicas." So it's not "secret" in any way.
2. the w997, w968, and HL5 are indeed all created by DHS with directions from the company. No one said that wasn't true. But that is not to say that replicas of these national blades (w997 and w968) are not in production. As I explained above, research facilities can make replicas of the national blades that have similar feel to the national blades. 3. w997 is probably one of the greatest blades that DHS made. You must really be retarded to think that w997 is not a great blade. So many CNT members use w997 and w968. Ma Long won the 2014 WTTTC with the w997. Why on earth would Ma Long use w997 if it's a crappy blade? 4. "just check chinese players on videos and pictures, you rarely see one using w997 or w968." Excuse me. Have you actually trained in China? Which videos actually show you the exact blades any player is using? I used to train with the Shanghai prov team, and at least 10 guys use w997... Do you just not have the money to shell out for a w997 or something?
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qualizon
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Posted: 08/16/2015 at 1:14am |
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MLFan, thanks for the insider info, at least now we have a better clue. Don't worry about that ignorance troll, and since he agree he'll not waste his time on this thread, it's all good :-) We all can share constructive insight once again.
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MLfan
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Posted: 08/16/2015 at 1:25am |
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haha no problem. I don't understand why people can be so skeptical of things like this. Lack of common sense I suppose
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Magic_M
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Posted: 08/16/2015 at 3:33am |
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But one question is not answered for me and therefore I am not convinced.
If they are able to copy nearly everything, the look of the blade, the picture under the handle, the packages, the hologram-sticker, the certificate, .... Why do you think, that they are not able to replicate the narrow script on the side of the handle ??? I think, it should be MUCH easier to copy a script instead of the hologram-sticker and all the other details. And there is another point: If everything is right, what you wrote here, it sounds, as if 90% of all DHS blades would be a "fake" or "Copy" or something like this. Once again: you may be right (and I think you are), that the "real" national versions come from ONE special DHS factory, but I can`t believe, that DHS (the biggest chinese seller) produces only 10% of all the available DHS blades. Sorry, but this sounds unreal. I still think, that most of these blades are produced in order of DHS, who order their blades from different factories, but official and legal. Of course there are also fakes available, but not SOOOO much and not sooo good. Look at the ugly Butterfly ZJ SZLC-fakes with this terrible handle-design. If the chinese companies are so perfect in building fake-blades: why do they sell such ugly fakes which are so easy to see?
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TurboZ
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Posted: 08/16/2015 at 7:52am |
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I am afraid it is not rumours to make DHS laugh anymore. They had already officially reply to those who sent in their HL5 with doubt for verification. The letter post on forum clearly tells the blade in question is fake for all the see, and they had report the counterfeit to police for further investigation. If you can read Chinese you will know what the real situation is over there in the link below. http://tieba.baidu.com/p/3968803676 In fact I had bought some old Hurricane Hao and 656 with matching boxes for $30 a piece a few years back. I am afraid the profit they made from selling $100 HL5 is nothing to be sneezed at, not to mention those W997/968 without packaging. You know some seller in taobao can actually built you a W968 structure blade with your choice of handle and lens (you can even email them your face if you want to) for a mere $25. There should not be any question about Replica as the matter had already been talked to death and settled down in China. The only remaining question is that who is actually behind all these. Hope we can get an official answer from DHS and no more guessing. |
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TurboZ
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Posted: 08/16/2015 at 8:10am |
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Believe it or not. I have been asked once by taobao seller for an extra $1.5 to get a Provincial H3 with checkable scratch code. Guess what, it does check out fine on the DHS online verification system! The situation is really that crazy! Sometimes I don't think Western logic works in a country like China. 
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minja
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Posted: 08/16/2015 at 1:14pm |
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minja: dhs makes the w997, w968 and hurricane long v qualizon: oh you are such a troll, you don't know nothing about anything!!!!!! do me a favour and get out of this thread!!!!!!!!!!! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MLFan: dhs makes the w997, w968 and hurricane long v qualizon:
MLFan, thanks for the insider info, at least now we have a better clue. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------  let's keep it clear that hlv, w968 and w997 are all horrible blades and most chinese people prefer viscaria or even clipper before this blade. the handle is the thinnest handle ever. the head is very large, all other brands produce blades with smaller heads. the 3 blades are very heavy. using regular tensors you will have a bat of more than 200 g with horrible balance. the blade is not very fast, a similar weight viscaria or mizutani or boll zlc will be much faster at bounce. also it has a very wood feel which is not a good combination with tenergy. "ma long used it to win olympics!" he uses super boosted h3 rubbers which don't need a fast blade, they require a control blade with more wood feel. that is what hlvw997w968 are. the day you use boosted h3 both sides definitely get the hlvwxx. as long as you are using tenergy or tensors do yourself a favour and get a viscaria like fan zhendong and zhang jike (who coincidentally use tenergy bh). all this is insider info so treat it as it is, a highly classified government agency secret. Edited by minja - 08/16/2015 at 1:53pm |
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MLfan
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Posted: 08/16/2015 at 3:14pm |
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For your first question, I'm unable to answer that since I've never actually wondered why that is the case. But that is a consistent issue with the replicas and the real versions. The replicas have never had the special laser font that the real blades do. It's just something that "is" unfortunately. As for your second point, it's incorrect to say that 90% of blades are fakes. Most of the blades are actually REAL. But I am referring to the commercial ones, ie. HL5. There are many DHS stores in China, and all of them have real HL5s. However, DHS only makes about 20-30 w997s, for instance, for Ma Long to try. Ma Long picks the ones he likes, and the rest are either given to other CNT members or to certain higher-ranked employees to make a quick buck. It is this that started the confusion between reals and fakes. Since there are very few "real" national blades, people who cannot get them but also have certain connections will get the "replicas" from the DHS research facilities. That's actually all there is to it. So for example, if I had enough connections, I could get a bunch of DHS w997 replicas and start selling them on taobao. Some people on taobao actually have such connections, while others make purely fake stuff (eg. I played on a 100 rmb tenergy lol). Why the "fake" blades and "fake" rubbers are so popular is because the authentic DHS items that can be bought in DHS-authorized stores are ridiculously expensive. For example, commercial HL5 sells for 1k+ RMB, and tenergy rubbers are 628 RMB (100+ USD) a sheet. As a result, many taobao sellers capitalize on this and claim that they are DHS employees who can get authentic equipment at a cheaper price. Since nobody wants to get equipment at such absurd prices in the DHS stores, they're gonna turn to taobao. A final note here: the "real" w997 replicas are not bad at all. Unless you're a very high level player, you're not going to feel that much difference, if any at all, between the real and the replicas.
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TurboZ
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Posted: 08/16/2015 at 6:49pm |
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I think Magic_M has got the wrong message from OP saying that narrow font on handle is real and wide font is fake. Actually that only applies to those special National/Provincial blades like W997/968. Market version such as HL3/HL5 having wide font is perfectly normal. Fake HL3/HL5 on the other hand is a different story.
One theory why those Replicas are so real is that they are actually using true parts and process in making HL5, change the serial, leave out the print on blade face (easy enough) and market them as W997. So they all got the same wide font on handle as market blades. In fact in the early days all sellers of W997 advertised their blades as the same as what Ma Long was using. Only after the photo of Ma Long's personal W997 start to surface on forum did people realized that the real National stuff use a different font and busted the myth. These days most sellers will disclose the fact that they are selling Replicas and being honest because they know very well they can no longer fool their customers. I think that is why they have moved their operation to making fake HL3/HL5 after but that also got busted recently. Many at this stage are waiting for DHS official announcement to tell us where all these highly identical copies are coming from. Until then the operation behind will remain a guessing game. |
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qualizon
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Posted: 08/16/2015 at 7:15pm |
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Yea, as the title said, it's referring to national blade. Commercial blade is another story that worth another thread unfortunately.
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minja
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Posted: 08/16/2015 at 7:35pm |
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replicas come from dhs as well, all blades are made by dhs. however they are not made by secretly hijacking the production line like quadzilion said. they are made with dhs knowing these blades are being made. this is the official word from dhs. |
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aroonkl
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Posted: 08/17/2015 at 6:10am |
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I played with both, side by side. ML5 flexes lot more and more catapult. W997 (Replica) felt solid, stable and precise. If I get this right. Qualizon: W997 Replicas are knocked off, cheapo. MLfan/TurboZ: Replicas are made by also DHS but under secret corrupted team try to get pocket $. Materials are the same but might not be super select and quality control as the ones for Ma Long. As you hold your TB ALC, would it be the same quality as TB's himself blade. Is your ALC bad? If BTY states it used the same material and quality control as TB's blade, would you believe it? So if W997 replica are made by DHS factory/material, money might go to some Co-CEO not main company DHS. By ethic, it is not good. But if consider only performance of the blade itself, what do you think? We don't have access to personal blades of TB's or Ma Long's anyway. When I played with W997, I did not feel anything short of a good blade. Power/spinny (with H3)/Precise, all there. I would still play with it if not the weight and head heavy with Chinese rubber. Edited by aroonkl - 08/17/2015 at 6:17am |
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minja
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Posted: 08/17/2015 at 10:24am |
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both ideas are absolutely nonsense. you can't just go to a factory and secretly use their machine, their wood, their space, their workers. everybody would notice. it's clear the order comes straight from dhs head corporate. it's the same case as with national h3 which is made to sell for public even though it is national. but of course it's easier to believe in some crazy ninja secret story than the most logical explanation.... Edited by minja - 08/17/2015 at 10:39am |
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tom
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Posted: 08/17/2015 at 12:00pm |
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while it makes a good story on how the real replicas gets made - the real question is how good are these replicas and are they worth anything on the secondary market such as the one in this forum? imagine you buy an absurdly expensive blade ( which I would consider anything over 150$) and don't like the way it plays (as it could happen with any blade) and would like to resell it but no one (aside from people who could try it first) would pay you anything because the high risk of them being fakes. Could anyone give guidance on whether these national blade replicas are a good bet for an EJ.
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MLfan
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Posted: 08/17/2015 at 1:10pm |
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lol when did I say that it's made by a "secret corrupt" team?
I said that higher-ranked employees can ask the research facilities to make them replicas of the blade. These employees can then choose to sell them or use them themselves. There is no ultra-secret ninja hijack corrupt classified story anywhere... w997 replicas made by the DHS research facilities are actually really good blades. But the fake w997 ones (not made by DHS) are obviously not.
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berndt_mann
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Posted: 08/17/2015 at 1:30pm |
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(minja) all this is insider info so treat it as it is, a highly classified government agency secret.
While serving in the United States Army, I held a top secret crypto security clearance from September 1966 to March 1969. During the last six months of my military service I worked at the National Security Agency. Divulging highly classified government agency secrets can cause grave damage to national security and may result in a lenghy prison term and fine for him/her who divulges them. Consider yourself fortunate that neither legitimate nor fake DHS National table tennis blades such as the W997 existed at that time. What happens in Vegas, or at the National Security Agency for that matter, should stay there. Unless, of course, you're Edward Snowden. Edited by berndt_mann - 08/17/2015 at 1:33pm |
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bmann1942
Setup: Mark Bellamy Master Craftsman blade, British Leyland hard rubber |
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minja
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Posted: 08/17/2015 at 2:08pm |
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right so you think employees can make as many blades as they want with nobody controlling them. you never worked in a factory did you? |
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MLfan
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Posted: 08/17/2015 at 4:20pm |
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And you've never even set your foot in China have you? Even I can call in to DHS right now to have a w997 replica made, simply because I know certain people in there. If you know how stuff works in China, you'd know that these people who ask for replicas just have to pay DHS for them. It's exactly the same idea as a person who, having special privileges, can buy things that other people can't. The DHS research facilities do not make the commercial blades. If you don't understand anything, don't launch verbal attacks.
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minja
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Posted: 08/17/2015 at 4:36pm |
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a new day starts at the famous dhs research facility...
manager: all right guys, give me a status of your activities today worker1: yesterday I watched some ma long matches, the guy is unreal, I'm gonna go ahead and make some w997 today... manager: great, next one? worker2: yesterday I spent some time with my girlfriend and I still think about it, I think I'm gonna do some ding ning blades just as a reminder. manager: awesome, next one? worker3: honestly, I don't really feel like working today boss, sorry manager: that's awesome, just go and play some video games or something will ya? next please worker4: I really want a salary increment so I want dhs to sell a lot. I'll make some hurricane kings today. manager: well that's great guys, just go to the forest, chop some wood off and get this done. remember if you cross a wild animal out there just hunt it and we'll have it for lunch. ------ end of the day..... worker 2: hey boss, got this blades done, where shall I put them? manager: just throw them where you see free space, I guess some.... manager will eventually pick them up if he feels like it. manager: all right guys, I'm leaving. oh just remembered my wife wants a new car so need to make some cash, gonna just.... mmmm...... get some of these and some of these.... (grabs different models of blades and rubbers) straight to taobao guys!!!!! see you tomorrow. worker4: see you tomorrow buddy (as he lights a cigar with a burning w997 he is using as lighter). Edited by minja - 08/17/2015 at 4:44pm |
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aroonkl
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Posted: 08/17/2015 at 9:01pm |
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Do they make enough to sell to demanding market and lot of prov. players who want them?
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MLfan
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Posted: 08/17/2015 at 10:03pm |
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There isn't actually a demanding market for blades like w997 because most people aren't going to shell out so much money to buy one. It's usually just certain people (ie. people who used to train professionally, good amateur players, rich chinese people who just want to have the exact same equipment as Ma Long, etc) who buy them. Not that many provincial players actually buy them either, because their coaches either don't let them switch blades, or they'd rather spend the money to have the coaches pay more attention to them, etc. The market is much, much bigger for commercial blades like HL5 or h3s (hence the number of fake blades and fake h3s around). The special national blades like w997 and w968 are also not as well-known as you'd think, believe it or not :)
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minja
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Posted: 08/17/2015 at 11:10pm |
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I know everything said in this forum is top secret and classified internal information so I'm not gonna mess with top this level of credibility.
but I suggest to look at what's available to mere humans with no vip access like me. look at the videos of chinese league, look at ittf pics. the ratio of usage by good chinese players is around 80% viscaria 20% w997 and others. so honestly the market for w997 or even hl5 is not too big. the only guys I know using w997 are fangbo and haoshuai but they really just follow what malong does. |
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qualizon
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Posted: 08/18/2015 at 12:12am |
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mere humans with no vip access like you claimed yourself use everything national in your intro thread, you just prove yourself a liar without good intention to help the forum community once again. This thread is meant to help each other to identify the variation of the national blade like W997, if you don't have any contribution, please don't waste your time and the forum resource, go elsewhere to do your daily trolling and argue for the sake of arguing. Various members have expressed politely that your messages are not appreciated here, do yourself a favor and spend your time on training, may be one day you can really reach 2560 rating with your imaginary equipment.
Edited by qualizon - 08/18/2015 at 12:57am |
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munai
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Posted: 08/18/2015 at 12:17am |
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If you do not get blade from National players or coach, then all of the national version blades are fake..
i know someone here who is selling lots of fake blades . Only one thing is quite certain. the genuine national blade is bad for non-pros to play..
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minja
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Posted: 08/18/2015 at 2:34am |
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Alright guys, you saw it.
I came to this forum, participated, and everything just went crazy. Suddenly you have 6 threads talking about fake products, people cutting their veins off swearing they have a real national product and so on... I have to go now, need to hide away for some time. Everything will slowly die now, don't try to stop, just let it flow. But you better keep an eye out because one day I Will Come Back. So you better be ready. Yours truly, minja Edited by minja - 08/18/2015 at 2:37am |
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Baal
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Posted: 08/18/2015 at 10:33am |
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But you better keep an eye out because one day I Will Come Back.
So you better be ready. Not the best attitude really. Came in like a troll (hey, I am 2500!!!). Goes out like one too. |
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qualizon
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Posted: 08/18/2015 at 11:32am |
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Hi Giangt, Are you saying if the w997 with wide font has a date around spring/summer 2014, then it's as good as the real deal? How about any date after that? mine has a date of march 2015, I won't keep high hope
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BeaverMD
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Posted: 08/18/2015 at 12:59pm |
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...
Edited by BeaverMD - 09/10/2021 at 8:04am |
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qualizon
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Posted: 08/18/2015 at 1:35pm |
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We are only referring to the national blade W997 here, which TT11 doesn't carry. TT11 only carries the HL5, and they are legit The confusion lies when we have the following variety: 1) Legit Hurricane Long 5 (by default it has wide font) 2) Fake Hurricane Long 5 (which it has the wide font and very detailed boxset and statistic card) 3) Legit National W997 / W968 blade (the one that Ma Long or national team uses has narrow font) 4) Replica W997/W969 (has wide font) 5) Fake W997/W968 (has wide font also) Edited by qualizon - 08/18/2015 at 1:40pm |
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qualizon wrote: