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TT Nirvana

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Gtbana1 View Drop Down
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    Posted: 08/25/2015 at 6:12pm
I came back after a long long layoff last June and starting looking quite incorrectly, for the best blade/rubber combo. My choice was the JM SZLC with Tenergy 05/05FX, a bad idea. It was like giving a motorcycle to a six year old.
Since then I bought Infinity V, Nittaku KCZ, Joo Se-Hyuk, and three other blades.
I've tried about two dozen rubbers.
I've now on the Viscaria with 05/64FX thanks to the praises I've seen here. My ranking is around 1600, but I'm hoping to go much higher.

My questions:
1. How long do you try a blade rubber combo before deciding to make a change, or is it a never ending process.

2. At what point do you, if ever, feel like you have reach that Nirvana?

Thanks,
BTY Viscaria, T05,V>401
BTY Innerforce, T05, T64
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asifgunz View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote asifgunz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/25/2015 at 6:34pm
Nirvana that you speak of comes from practice. Not from switching equipment.
It's not too late. You can start now and get better in no time.

"Do what you can, when you can" - Les Brown.





"I do not have any idols. I am my own idol." - Zhang Jike

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mts388 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/25/2015 at 6:42pm
It sounds like your already on your way to neverending EJ hell, or from an EJ's viewpoint, heaven.

Depending on your style you might want to start with an all around + or offensive minus set up.  Then stay with it for 6 months.  Talk to a coach and get their opinion of what you should use.  Most importantly stay away from an EJ.   If they knew what to use, they wouldn't be EJ's. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wilkinru Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/25/2015 at 7:04pm
There must be a formula for trying equipment.

Lets see...

First off get some very popular classic equipment that isn't considered fast. So Mark V or striver 1.8mm or with an all around blade.

While your at it, there is plenty of cheap Chinese equipment. Grab some of the $14 tacky hard sponge rubber and a somewhat offensive blade.

Do you like the tacky? Do you like a soft or hard sponge? Thin or thick sponge? What did you think about the lighter or the heavier setup?

I think when EJing, it's important to go for major differences in the products you "demo". I was constantly trying the cheap chinese stuff...which all was pretty similar.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BRS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/25/2015 at 8:38pm
Is anything wrong with the Viscaria 05/64fx combo?  What are you not able to do with that?  If you have good feel for the ball and it isn't flying all over the place, then try sticking with it for at least a few months.  Your improvement should come mostly from technique, more than from equipment.  Maybe spend that EJ money on coaching, if coaching is available in your area.  If there are no coaches, it doesn't take too many new rubbers to add up to the cost of a robot.  

Later if you feel like there is something you can't do *because of your setup*, then it might make sense to change equipment to enable you to do whatever that is.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vanjr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/25/2015 at 9:38pm
From what I read on this board you have already reached nirvana. Viscaria. No one at my club is worthy of such.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote yogi_bear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/25/2015 at 11:35pm
it is called "the new toy syndrome". after a few weeks you will lose your nirvana feeling Tongue. all apologies lol
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote p1ngp0ng3r Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/26/2015 at 2:09am
Originally posted by yogi_bear yogi_bear wrote:

it is called "the new toy syndrome". after a few weeks you will lose your nirvana feeling Tongue. all apologies lol

Hehe, you are totally right, Yogi !

That's also one of the reasons I'm turning back to an old (but for me succesful) combo: Rossi Emotion + Rhyzm 425. Back to basic. :)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gtbana1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/26/2015 at 7:54am
All,

Thanks for the feedback!!
I'm  going  to stick with Viscaria combo and not fall for the "new toy syndrome" as Yogi so accurately put it for at least a year.
I will have a 'fire sale' for all the stuff I bought and ignore all posts about great new equipment.

On the average how many setups do you folks have?

Maybe there is no Nirvana!!
BTY Viscaria, T05,V>401
BTY Innerforce, T05, T64
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/26/2015 at 8:30am
Don't sell your stuff yet. If you can, buy, or if you already have one switch to a good OFF- 5 ply blade with the traditional Limba ayous construction if your goal is to loop and get better. Use that to calibrate your game for as long as you need to. After using that, you can decide whether to go slower or faster.

Using composites demands more from you than you realize, even with coaching. You can determine that by trying to determine how different your shots feel when you use them vs a wooden blade like I described above.
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gtbana1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/26/2015 at 11:21am
Ok, I will hold on to what I have and don't changed my setup until someone or more than one person convinces me that I need to upgrade.

And I promise to read but not react to any reviews of blades and rubber no matter what.
BTY Viscaria, T05,V>401
BTY Innerforce, T05, T64
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/26/2015 at 11:30am
Originally posted by Gtbana1 Gtbana1 wrote:

Ok, I will hold on to what I have and don't changed my setup until someone or more than one person convinces me that I need to upgrade.

And I promise to read but not react to any reviews of blades and rubber no matter what.

You don't need to upgrade.  Unless you are a young person training every day and IMO even if so, a Viscaria is not a good blade for you so you need to switch to something more suitable for building feeling.  The reasons why one should use a blade with a carbon kick and dampening arylate layer are tied to things that come well after you have you developed a good feeling for the ball as well as solid strokes.  You are challenging yourself to find that feeling if you use something like that early and you are not training on a regular basis.  And many people who use those things and train on a regular basis used something very different when building their technique.

The rule is usually as follows - the more composite there is in a blade, usually, the more similar all strokes feel.  And your strokes are not supposed to feel similar on good and bad contact!
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
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FH/BH: H3P 41D.
Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 42andbackpains Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/26/2015 at 12:20pm
Back in the 80s and when i was twelve...all beginners started with a allround blades/average speed rubbers and beginners usually played 1to 3 years with the blade. And most of the time 2000 and higher level players used offensive blades. As Nextel said, better players have well developed strokes and can use the advantages of carbon/offensive blades. You wouldn't put a amateur race car driver in the Daytona 500. On my 3rd comeback i started last Oct 2014, it was very hard finding the feeling of the ball and I made the mistake by buying 3 to 4 carbon blades before finding a all wood blade. Even though the all wood blade is a little slower, but had much better feedback and control over the ball. And the modern all wood blade is not slow at all. Try developing your strokes and get a feel for the ball, my coach tells me this every training session. Hopefully the more table tennis you play, that you can get some good coaching, training and advice from the better players in your club. Everybody wants to buy the newest blade, but really its not the equipment that makes the player. Its your strokes and style of play that should define your blades & rubbers. 
Mind is willing, but the back goes out too often :P
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mts388 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/26/2015 at 12:21pm
Originally posted by Gtbana1 Gtbana1 wrote:

All,

Thanks for the feedback!

On the average how many setups do you folks have?

Maybe there is no Nirvana!!


I have 3 paddles with the same set up.  Lebesson offensive minus blade, Tenergy 05 on the forehand and Sword LP's on the backhand.  Two years ago I switched to LP's on the backhand.  Forehand and blade have been the same for years, with no plans to change.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vanjr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/26/2015 at 12:35pm
I think 2 setups is reasonble. Three if you like to experiment with one. Many, many have only one setup. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/26/2015 at 1:26pm
I first reached my Nirvana when I beat all my teammates with superior setups using a premade.
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cole_ely Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/26/2015 at 1:37pm
Technically nirvana means "snuffed out."  To cease to exist.  So if you quit, that's nirvana.

I do realize that there are other takes on nirvana, but that was the original.
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Please let me know if I can be of assistance.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/26/2015 at 1:51pm
That was it.  I felt like quitting when there was no one around to beat.  Competition ceased to exist with my regular setup, and later the premade.  No more desire and suffering.

Edited by zeio - 08/26/2015 at 1:52pm
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vanjr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/26/2015 at 1:55pm
Originally posted by cole_ely cole_ely wrote:

Technically nirvana means "snuffed out."  To cease to exist.  So if you quit, that's nirvana.

I do realize that there are other takes on nirvana, but that was the original.

And they say the message boards are all for naught. Learned something there. 

While Weird Al's parody of Nirvana plays in my head...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gtbana1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/26/2015 at 2:13pm
It amount of knowledge here is astounding!!

NextLevel, can you send me a few examples of the blade you mentioned?

Thanks

BTY Viscaria, T05,V>401
BTY Innerforce, T05, T64
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wilkinru Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/26/2015 at 3:39pm
Took me nearly 3 months to start using my pretty fast equipment with an advantage.

While the carbon blade is fast - it also feels solid and feels great for backhand looping with the T05.

I'm tempted to get T05FX next time around, tho.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CraneStyle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/27/2015 at 12:47pm
No...

Nirvana
nɪəˈvɑːnə/
noun
(in Buddhism) a transcendent state in which there is neither suffering, desire, nor sense of self, and the subject is released from the effects of karma and the cycle of death and rebirth. It represents the final goal of Buddhism.
synonyms:     paradise, heaven, Eden, the promised land; More
another term for moksha.

an ideal or idyllic state or place.

plural noun: nirvanas

"the days of socialist nirvana in Europe are over"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/27/2015 at 12:50pm
Originally posted by wilkinru wilkinru wrote:

Took me nearly 3 months to start using my pretty fast equipment with an advantage.

While the carbon blade is fast - it also feels solid and feels great for backhand looping with the T05.

I'm tempted to get T05FX next time around, tho.


Isn't part of the problem that it feels solid almost no matter what you do?
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CraneStyle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/27/2015 at 12:59pm
When..?

This is a great question...

I would say Nirvana is when there is no doubt that what you play with suits you and you get the output you expect...

Recently had doubts about my BH and switched to a previous rubber to see if that helped...

Changed back now to T05FX. ...

Just need to keep training and win more matches to stay as close to perceived Nirvana as possible...
1. Mizutani Jun ZLC, FH T80, BH T05
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gtbana1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/28/2015 at 12:07pm
Cranestyle,

What made you change the rubber and not the blade?

What would a golfer do?

This Nirvana thing may just unreachable.
BTY Viscaria, T05,V>401
BTY Innerforce, T05, T64
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CraneStyle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/28/2015 at 1:31pm
Originally posted by Gtbana1 Gtbana1 wrote:

Cranestyle,

What made you change the rubber and not the blade?

What would a golfer do?

This Nirvana thing may just unreachable.


My blade is great; I've been through a few so I think I know...

I lost a few matches and felt I was blasting shots off the table with my BH...

Played some matches with an 'old friend'. It did block great and kept the ball on the table but I'd been playing so long with T05FX that it was an awkward change...

I trained 2 days with 'old friend' and realised I had lost my BH FH balance at my fighting distance...

I had played really well with T05FX and it was probably tension and grip pressure that resulted in poor BH play cos I had won games but couldn't close out matches; I was disappointed...

Strangely 'old friend' did me some good because it requires a more definite stroke and when I returned to T0FX my BH was great...

Golf:-
Similarly, if you go into a Golf outlet they will fit you out with a set of clubs according to your measured 6 iron swing speed from wedges, irons, woods & driver; the same for all clubs...

However, when you get better, serious and do real research or play with scratch golfers you are told if one club feels strange, don't suffer it, change it...

As with TT your personal set of club becomes custom. Regular flex irons, stiff shaft driver with almost 3 wood loft 13.5 degrees loft (typical drivers are 9.5 10.5 degrees)... wedges and utility clubs for various situations...

I remember reading that a golfer should choose their ball based on where they need its features the most. I think this could apply to TT rubbers...

What would a typical amature Golfer do:-
- If they are struggling with driving accuracy, they would go to the driving range
- If they were struggling with driving distance, they would buy a new driver (probably the biggest single selling item in amature golf). Or buy a "distance ball".
- If they were struggling with iron accuracy they would go to the driving range
- If they were struggling with chipping and putting they might suffer it or buy a new putter (golfers buy lots of putters too)

Of course you can get lessons for all these aspects of golf just like TT, but most people try to buy an off the shelf solution. Sound familiar...





Edited by CraneStyle - 08/29/2015 at 4:33pm
1. Mizutani Jun ZLC, FH T80, BH T05
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