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Changing Serve - how do I setup my Loop now?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote heavyforehand Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/27/2015 at 9:57pm
Oh ok, yeah I'm not that passionate about a forum to make dual accounts.

Curios, you said you wouldn't recommend 1.8 Mark V. What rubber would you recommend? Im still learning about all this stuff.

I have used Friendship 729 Cream transcend pretty much the whole time that I decided to get serious about playing. Its very tacky andIm not sure if I like that. I put the 1.5mm version on a Galaxy 896 to try and get some control and I actually liked it alright. I had much more confidence to attack with that setup even though its pretty low powered. Ill have the Donic setup tomorrow so I'm hoping it has that same type of control as well.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/27/2015 at 10:58pm
Originally posted by heavyforehand heavyforehand wrote:

Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Not sure what you mean by across it. These questions are impossible to answer pointedly without videotape. There are so many ways to consistently attack backspin that as long as you have the right racket head speed and contact point, it becomes a matter of preference and consistency except when the ball is low...

Ok thanks, thats a little hard to explain. Here is an exaggerated version of what I mean (it should be queued up for the 58 second mark) - https://youtu.be/8XSv6UK2CMI?t=58s 


I got to work with a guy who is a pretty high level player and he pointed out I was following through too much. I think that was why I was overcooking my FH. I stopped doing that and we were able to have some longer loop rallies where I could hit my rhythm again. I was taught to have a short follow through but I guess I lost it so I just had to focus on that and of course my footwork as well.



That's a forehand fade - it's a sidespin shot.  There is a logic to why it works (avoiding the major spin effect by hitting the ball closer to the axis), but for what you are trying to do, it also has limitations as you sometimes need to learn to take on the major spin effect.  But if you can make the fade natural and consistent, you can use it.  Most people would use a forehand hook, which is on the other side.  And at the higher levels, most players can switch between looping underspin directly or by using sidespin (avoiding the major spin effect).  And when the spin gets really heavy, you will usually use some kind of spin avoidance on many of your strokes.

Generally, when looping with the forehand, unless driving the ball, the stroke is supposed to finish on the same side of the body as where the stroke originated.  This is even more critical for backspin than for topspin.  If I had to guess, that is what your friend meant.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/27/2015 at 11:16pm
Originally posted by heavyforehand heavyforehand wrote:

Oh ok, yeah I'm not that passionate about a forum to make dual accounts.

Curios, you said you wouldn't recommend 1.8 Mark V. What rubber would you recommend? Im still learning about all this stuff.

I have used Friendship 729 Cream transcend pretty much the whole time that I decided to get serious about playing. Its very tacky andIm not sure if I like that. I put the 1.5mm version on a Galaxy 896 to try and get some control and I actually liked it alright. I had much more confidence to attack with that setup even though its pretty low powered. Ill have the Donic setup tomorrow so I'm hoping it has that same type of control as well.

Usually, once one has committed to offensive play and is not going to primarily chop, then 2.0mm and higher are the rubbers that are recommended as well as tensors.  If one wants to play a game that relies on medium to fast, heavy topspins, then thicker sponge allows for driving through the ball while retaining spin and modern tensors are built to support loop driving and looping far more effectively than traditional rubbers as the latter can no longer be speed glued (and even when boosted, don't do as well as boosted tensors).  If you loop the ball hard, or have a powerful forehand, 1.8mm is going to stop spinning the ball on drive contact fairly easily for you as you will get to the wood of your blade easily on powerful shots.

To cut a long story short, loopers/powerloopers should use 1.9-2.0mm at the mininum and more often 2.1mm-Max.  But the effects are not going to be a big deal right now and will show up when you are counterlooping or loop driving heavy spin, which is not what you are doing right now.  You can switch whenever you want to.  As BRS pointed out, there are some control costs and active play requirements that come with the extra ability to manipulate and generate spin, but IMO, if you are committed to offensive play, you embrace those problems and deal with them head on with practice, rather than ducking them as just about any rubber will have them in some form and if you are looping, your loop is your dominant weapon once you are allowed to introduce it.

Tacky rubbers support close to the table play because they allow you to grip the ball even when it is rotating heavily and might slip if only the topsheet is used.  That said, they are harder to loop and generate spin with, but the fact that they usually have harder sponges and don't slip allow you to hit the ball harder as well as you optimize your technique so it goes both ways.  I personally think it's easier to use regular non-tacky rubbers of all kinds until you are advanced, and then you make your decision on tacky later.  I currently use hybrid tacky stuff (Big Dipper), but I could just as well use non-tacky stuff, so don't think of it as the end of the world whatever you choose.

Ultimately, unless you want to buy and test something cheap, it is best to just borrow setups at any club you practice at and hit with them.  Do it every so often and that will reduce the urge to EJ over time as you will get an idea of what is out there and only buy stuff when you find it truly helpful (almost never for me).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Victor_the_cleaner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/27/2015 at 11:51pm
Well, i just saw a pattern. 

Sriver and Mark V are a ripoff at 30+ usd. 

If you move from Sriver to Bluefire, or Evolution, or Tenergy or Rhyzm (best!), you will feel your rubber is turbocharged. You don't need to swing for the fences on every FH, and can keep your body in balance for fast recovery for the next ball.

There is really no benefits for thin rubber for attack. Use only regular sponge and Max thickness. THere is a reason they put a limit of 4 mm of thickness. everybody wants thicker and thicker. Thicker rubber has more spin and more speed simultaneously. Even counterlooping is easier with thicker rubber, as it holds the ball longer. Only choppers use thin rubber, and people with poor technique or knowledge.

Thicker rubber will make lifting underspin easier too, as you will increase dwell time. 

I frankly don't care how fast a blade is, as long as it is hard and has no vibration. If you can receive serve, keep it the fast one and improve shots. If you can't control the serve return... you can temporary use a slower blade..


Edited by Victor_the_cleaner - 08/27/2015 at 11:52pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote heavyforehand Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/27/2015 at 11:56pm
Great stuff thanks. And to your first post, that is what he meant. I found a few little things I need to work on - its all just proper practice.

Second post - Reminds me of a friend who has a Stiga OC and Yaksa 7 soft in max. He and i are roughly the same level. But he doesn't think he can handle the max yet and may down to the 1.8. He bought it  because he asked the best guy what he uses and just went with that. But the best guy is 1900 and has far superior spin and technique.

I have to say his setup is pretty sweet and just a little hot for me as well. But I seem to play more confidently right now with thinner control rubbers, which is why I went with the Mark V.

The tacky rubbers I don't think are my thing. It is hard to counter spin, at least for me. Another reason I went with the Mark V - its slicker. Anyway, I may get a chance to play with it tomorrow, as its expected to be here -  and ill post my initial impressions. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote heavyforehand Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/28/2015 at 12:03am
Originally posted by Victor_the_cleaner Victor_the_cleaner wrote:

Well, i just saw a pattern. 

Sriver and Mark V are a ripoff at 30+ usd. 

If you move from Sriver to Bluefire, or Evolution, or Tenergy or Rhyzm (best!), you will feel your rubber is turbocharged. You don't need to swing for the fences on every FH, and can keep your body in balance for fast recovery for the next ball.

There is really no benefits for thin rubber for attack. Use only regular sponge and Max thickness. THere is a reason they put a limit of 4 mm of thickness. everybody wants thicker and thicker. Thicker rubber has more spin and more speed simultaneously. Even counterlooping is easier with thicker rubber, as it holds the ball longer. Only choppers use thin rubber, and people with poor technique or knowledge.

Thicker rubber will make lifting underspin easier too, as you will increase dwell time. 

I frankly don't care how fast a blade is, as long as it is hard and has no vibration. If you can receive serve, keep it the fast one and improve shots. If you can't control the serve return... you can temporary use a slower blade..

Yeah I have heard this advice a lot, but I don't think 1.8 is going to be too bad for me since I can generate a lot of power and am in good shape. Especially since I have a fast paddle set up with 2.0 that I'm just not confident enough with yet (729 bomb - really launches the ball off the paddle with the Transcend rubbers).

So I'm just going to groove with this until I actually notice what you are saying - that it will be easier to swing and recover with a Tenergy rubber. There is no doubt about this, I agree 100%. Right now I just need the confidence to attack the ball and I seem to do it better with a more control rubber at this time. If I continue to play this much I am sure I will see it from your perspective down the road and switch to a rubber like Rhzym which sounds pretty great for my forehand down the road. 

At this point I'm just trying to build my confidence and mentality and the thinner rubbers help me stay in attack mode.


Edited by heavyforehand - 08/28/2015 at 12:04am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/28/2015 at 10:43am
Originally posted by heavyforehand heavyforehand wrote:

Great stuff thanks. And to your first post, that is what he meant. I found a few little things I need to work on - its all just proper practice.

Second post - Reminds me of a friend who has a Stiga OC and Yaksa 7 soft in max. He and i are roughly the same level. But he doesn't think he can handle the max yet and may down to the 1.8. He bought it  because he asked the best guy what he uses and just went with that. But the best guy is 1900 and has far superior spin and technique.

I have to say his setup is pretty sweet and just a little hot for me as well. But I seem to play more confidently right now with thinner control rubbers, which is why I went with the Mark V.

The tacky rubbers I don't think are my thing. It is hard to counter spin, at least for me. Another reason I went with the Mark V - its slicker. Anyway, I may get a chance to play with it tomorrow, as its expected to be here -  and ill post my initial impressions. 



1.  Your friend's set up is okay - I don't like Koto as an outer ply, but it is okay if he likes Koto.  The real problem is that no one is teaching him how to use it properly.  He needs to get better at spinning the ball.
2.  Playing more confidently with a setup is important, but at USATT 1000, it is a big mistake to place a premium on that kind of thing if you have only been playing a year or two and are past the point of putting the ball on the table.  What you should be looking for is a good setup for your long term goals.  
3.  Playing confidently if that means avoiding missing is another mistake.  Missing is part of the game.  The key is to miss with good technique.  If you have good technique, missing actually accelerates the learning curve.  It's very sad to see a coach smiling while his student hits the ball on the table with bad strokes.  Yet it happens all over the world when a coach is just willing to take his student's money without doing his job.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/28/2015 at 10:49am
Originally posted by heavyforehand heavyforehand wrote:

Originally posted by Victor_the_cleaner Victor_the_cleaner wrote:

Well, i just saw a pattern. 

Sriver and Mark V are a ripoff at 30+ usd. 

If you move from Sriver to Bluefire, or Evolution, or Tenergy or Rhyzm (best!), you will feel your rubber is turbocharged. You don't need to swing for the fences on every FH, and can keep your body in balance for fast recovery for the next ball.

There is really no benefits for thin rubber for attack. Use only regular sponge and Max thickness. THere is a reason they put a limit of 4 mm of thickness. everybody wants thicker and thicker. Thicker rubber has more spin and more speed simultaneously. Even counterlooping is easier with thicker rubber, as it holds the ball longer. Only choppers use thin rubber, and people with poor technique or knowledge.

Thicker rubber will make lifting underspin easier too, as you will increase dwell time. 

I frankly don't care how fast a blade is, as long as it is hard and has no vibration. If you can receive serve, keep it the fast one and improve shots. If you can't control the serve return... you can temporary use a slower blade..

Yeah I have heard this advice a lot, but I don't think 1.8 is going to be too bad for me since I can generate a lot of power and am in good shape. Especially since I have a fast paddle set up with 2.0 that I'm just not confident enough with yet (729 bomb - really launches the ball off the paddle with the Transcend rubbers).

So I'm just going to groove with this until I actually notice what you are saying - that it will be easier to swing and recover with a Tenergy rubber. There is no doubt about this, I agree 100%. Right now I just need the confidence to attack the ball and I seem to do it better with a more control rubber at this time. If I continue to play this much I am sure I will see it from your perspective down the road and switch to a rubber like Rhzym which sounds pretty great for my forehand down the road. 

At this point I'm just trying to build my confidence and mentality and the thinner rubbers help me stay in attack mode.

On rubber thickness, the janitor is right - the harder you hit the ball, the more sponge you typically need.  If you are launching the ball with 2.0, then work on your technique  - the 729 blade is not *that* fast and neither are the transcend rubbers.  That said, there is nothing wrong with what you are doing per se other than that you are adjusting your equipment to match your current playing level, rather than working aggressively on developing good technique.  The biggest mistake beginners who are learning to loop make is to try to hit the ball hard in the beginning rather than trying to brush the ball.  The pace comes over time as anyone can hit the ball hard - the brushing part is unnatural and needs good timing and being able to brush thickly and thinly has benefits.

And NO, do NOT use hard fast blades.  The janitor is wrong.  You need something that provides feedback and lets you feel the quality of your shots when learning.  Once you develop quality shots, you can decide whether you need more or less of that feedback.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote heavyforehand Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/28/2015 at 2:14pm
Cool. This all makes sense. 

The biggest mistake beginners who are learning to loop make is to try to hit the ball hard in the beginning rather than trying to brush the ball.

This is really good advice that is obvious but I wasn't thinking about it. Helped to refocus on that.

I got the new blade and I am playing a lot better. It makes me commit to the shot so that is great. My short game is a lot better now as well and I can handle incoming spin so much easier.

The 1900 level guy played with my 729 bomb and was flying balls compared to his setup, so it made me feel a little better. Another guy who is around 1000 but has real nice spin fell in love with it so I'm selling to him. 

Essentially it all worked out in the end..I spent about $20 overall for a much better paddle for my game.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/28/2015 at 2:32pm
Originally posted by heavyforehand heavyforehand wrote:

Cool. This all makes sense. 

The biggest mistake beginners who are learning to loop make is to try to hit the ball hard in the beginning rather than trying to brush the ball.

This is really good advice that is obvious but I wasn't thinking about it. Helped to refocus on that.

I got the new blade and I am playing a lot better. It makes me commit to the shot so that is great. My short game is a lot better now as well and I can handle incoming spin so much easier.

The 1900 level guy played with my 729 bomb and was flying balls compared to his setup, so it made me feel a little better. Another guy who is around 1000 but has real nice spin fell in love with it so I'm selling to him. 

Essentially it all worked out in the end..I spent about $20 overall for a much better paddle for my game.

Tacky rubbers work a little differently, so he just may not be used to them.'

A 1000 with good spin... hmm.... beware of pink elephants...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BRS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/28/2015 at 3:52pm
I guess good spin is relative to your playing level, so a 1000 can have good spin for his level.  

I still think the Mark V and Flextra will set the OP back compared to learning to spin with a tensor or tenergy now.  And I say that as someone who played with both of those rubbers on an appelgren allplay when I was around the same level as the OP.  It is very hard to loop with that stuff, so it can be more rewarding from a point-winning standpoint to push a lot of long balls and let the other guy miss.  Unless your goal is to be a defender, that is a terrible pattern to get into.  It sounds easy to just switch over later to looping long balls, and maybe for some people it is, but for me old habits are hard to break.  

I second what NL says about the positive side of missing too.  In another thread he said "take your swing and let the ball do what it does." Or another form of that is "play like you practice."  NL repeats himself a lot.  But the basic point is that, while not missing is good and important, you learn more by going for an attacking shot and missing than by playing it safe and letting your opponent control the action.  It's also more fun to attack, again unless you have a defensive mindset and want to play that style long-term.

So your setup may be good for right now, but if you find yourself not topspinning balls that come long to your forehand, then you are not developing a game you can grow with, and you will have to relearn your strokes later.  That is a drag.  Whatever equipment you feel comfortable using, it is not that important. But developing good strokes at the start that will serve you well as you rise through the ratings is super important.  It seems like you can just clean them up later, but it is so hard once you have the movement patterns built into your brain.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote heavyforehand Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/28/2015 at 5:09pm
The 1000 guy would be a higher level player if he moved his feet and played more. He played in clubs and has been taught. So his spin is honestly heavy, he just is not playing enough anymore. That is why he is where he is at now. He is getting more serious about it now so his rating will go up again I am sure. 

As for pushing the long balls - good point. I am able to actually loop better with this new paddle. It just feels more comfortable and the ball feels better. Tough to describe but I have been consistently hitting my loop better today. I played a lot better in general today. May just be the new paddle upping my game, but whatever it is, I like the results.

The only time I really push at all is when I play a high % wall type player. I just push them side to side and then loop a winner. Im actually more aggressive with this paddle because I have more control. I do topspin long balls to my forehand with it, so thats not a problem. 

Im definitely more aggressive with this blade and rubber setup. The Flextra is very slow and controlled so I can commit to a heavy spin backhand with it and not be tenative. Im taking control of points early now and building them with my short game, which is a nice change from before. Took everyone's advice and am doing no spin serves and hitting loops off the return and also hitting backspin serves and pushing deep to the backhand to setup a loop from that.

Im also going to get coaching again soon. So that will be a big help. I found my old coach and will see if I can get back with him in a few weeks.



Edited by heavyforehand - 08/28/2015 at 5:11pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/29/2015 at 12:37am
Originally posted by BRS BRS wrote:

 But the basic point is that, while not missing is good and important, you learn more by going for an attacking shot and missing than by playing it safe and letting your opponent control the action.  It's also more fun to attack, again unless you have a defensive mindset and want to play that style long-term.



Again, with the caveat that you need good technique. All this does not apply when you have bad technique.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vanjr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/29/2015 at 8:39am
Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Originally posted by BRS BRS wrote:

 But the basic point is that, while not missing is good and important, you learn more by going for an attacking shot and missing than by playing it safe and letting your opponent control the action.  It's also more fun to attack, again unless you have a defensive mindset and want to play that style long-term.



Again, with the caveat that you need good technique. All this does not apply when you have bad technique.


I still am a believer that players at all levels need both the ability to both attack and play safe shots. One who cannot do both will find times that they wish the did. With good technique of course. It is amazing how a brief discussion of technique can improve a part of your game.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/29/2015 at 8:50am
Everyone needs both shots and you probably need the latter more if you decide to do defensive type play. What you will find over time is that it is easy to confuse being safe with being lazy or being scared of missing. And that will stagnate your game if you are trying to improve. Your shot selection should be determined by your match strategy rather than a desire not to miss per se.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote heavyforehand Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/31/2015 at 10:29pm
Quick update after hours of play

I really like the Mark V a lot and think it could be great on my backhand or forehand, but this Flextra on the backhand side is almost too dead for me. Its a noticeable difference on backhand from the Gambler reflectoid 2.0 I was using. I think I got used to the bounce off the rubber because I was able to loop a lot easier on the backhand before.

Heeding the advice in this thread, I am considering down the road to replace it with a forehand rubber and use Mark V on my backhand. If i did that according to folks here it may be better to go with a more modern rubber on my forehand. Curious if Xiom Vega Europe 2.0, Rakza 7 soft 2.0 or Andro Rasant Powergrip in 2.1 would be a good fit for my blade?

I will say my loops are noticeably better now. I am looping backspin finally and attacking short serves with quick topspin. It's not going in 100% of the time yet, but  I have much more control. I think the 729 Bomb was just too fast for me and the feel of the 7 ply was throwing me off. I much prefer this Donic blade.

Definitley  feel like the Mark V is a seriously nice rubber for me and could be excellent on backhand. Maybe ill just buy another and replace the Flextra, but everyone was making some pretty good points in here on modern rubbers so I'm interested in thoughts on the ones I listed.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/01/2015 at 12:00am
Try out rubbers on your friend's blades. That's more reliable than coming to a forum for advice where you will largely get personal opinions or popular reviews from people who.have never seen you play.

There are many good rubbers out there. I have not used any of the ones you recommended but based on my testing and knowledge of them, I wouldn't recommend them to you at this stage. Bit what do I know since I have never seen you play?

Get a well reviewed classically popular rubber. Love it or hate it, you will learn a lot. Tenergy, Rhyzm, Bluefire, Evolution, Vega, Omega, Acuda, Baracuda, Rasant, Hexer, Fastarc, Narucross, Bryce - as the Rock said, it doesny matter.

Don't get a sponge that is too soft though. But once younger one and usr it, you will be able to benchmark your play and style.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote heavyforehand Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/01/2015 at 12:11am
Yes good points. Im mainly looking for good matches for my allplay blade since it is flexible and also wondering if i should go for max on my forehand or 2.0? Im not going to switch immediately so i have some time to at least get a list of a few good rubbers to try and pock from there. Everyone here where i play seems to have rakza 7 soft if they have good rubbers so that is all i have tried.


Edited by heavyforehand - 09/01/2015 at 12:12am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/01/2015 at 12:56am
Originally posted by heavyforehand heavyforehand wrote:

Yes good points. Im mainly looking for good matches for my allplay blade since it is flexible and also wondering if i should go for max on my forehand or 2.0? Im not going to switch immediately so i have some time to at least get a list of a few good rubbers to try and pock from there. Everyone here where i play seems to have rakza 7 soft if they have good rubbers so that is all i have tried.

Blade rubber matching is not such a hard science as some would like to deceive you into believing and I often shake my head when people say things like "I am looking for good matches for my allplay blade".  It's all about what you are trying to achieve, not what the equipment likes.  I might use a set up that another person would cringe at.

Generally, a slower blade tends to cap out its contribution to power generation fairly early, so you can put anything on it, more likely something that is medium to hard so that you can broadly separate the effects of the blade and the rubber (soft rubbers tend to cap out fairly early as well and will confuse you).  IF you tend to swing fairly fast and make hard contact, the harder is better.  If you tend to swing more slowly with more controlled impacts, something more medium may make sense.  But it all depends on how you want to play.

Based on what I have written above, any rubber can be used on your blade - it all depends on whether you like the effects or not.  You must have a club EJ who is willing to lend people rubbers and sells used rubbers etc.  Don't you?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote heavyforehand Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/01/2015 at 9:55am
I haven't met that many people there yet, just about 5-6. So far, no. My other friends I play with don't know that much about rubbers or use Rakza 7.

Edited by heavyforehand - 09/01/2015 at 9:56am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Victor_the_cleaner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/01/2015 at 11:04am
Rhyzm is the closest rubber to MarkV and Sriver in terms of throw angle and grip feeling. Rakza is much much more spiny than any of those which can be good if you can control the spin, but receiving a spiny serve becomes tricky. It will also throw the ball higher. 
If you move from MarkV or Sriver to Rhyzm you will need no adjustment. It is very similar, but better in everything, yes, everything, everything. Better spin, better speed, and at the same time better control. Is it a magic rubber sent from god to help all noobs? I think so. Helped me for sure. And if you know how to use google search, you can find it cheaper than MarkV and Sriver! 
I spent a lot of money testing new stuff, and still do. I am not looking for new equipment, just scratching my curiosity. For me there are only two rubbers in the TT world right now worth buying: Tenergy, if you want spin, and Rhyzm if you want control. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote heavyforehand Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/01/2015 at 12:43pm
Cool thank you, ill definitely look into it. My backhand has fallen apart with this Flextra crap so ill need to make a change at some point.

Pretty easy to glue? I have butterfly glue - Butterfly Free Chack. Is this a good one?

I found the Rubber at Tims Table tennis for $33 shipped internationally. Score! Went with Black Max. Ill keep the Mark V as my backhand rubber for now. 


Edited by heavyforehand - 09/01/2015 at 1:30pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote heavyforehand Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/02/2015 at 8:41pm
Besides the gear question above, Ill add that I have spent a lot of time recently on my footwork and Im definitely liking this new blade a ton and the control I have. I also see the benefit of thicker rubbers now that I am back to thin, but the Mark V is still a fantastic rubber. I think it will be great for my backhand since I like to chop and loop with it. I have switched over to it on backhand and it's a better rubber IMO than the Flextra.

The best guy I play with is excellent and I notice his serve is a varied backhand chop that can be very tough to read. He likes to chop to set up points but can rip loop winners off both sides. He uses the Rakza  7 soft max on both sides and basically plays a patient style but can attack off of any slight mistake. Playing him has helped me discover my weaknesses :

Backhand - backhand had collapsed a little. I worked on that today. I try to play everything as a forehand and its a bad idea because people always serve to my backhand side and the forehand push is hard. I worked on returning serves with my backhand again and it made things easier. It's crazy how much I was favoring my forehand without realizing it. I have a decent topspin backhand and it was reliable with the Reflectoid 2.0, but the Flextra 1.9 just is a lot different and I will be removing it.

Serve - My pendulum serve gives people problems but the spin I generate on the backhand chop serve is much more vicious and the better players have more problems with attacking it. I also wonder if starting in the middle of the table is an advantage or if I should be starting from the left side. Curious what people thoughts are there.

My loop is coming along better. I'm hitting the table a lot more. I make sure to focus on my feet moving..wide base, setup right foot behind the ball before trying to hit, brush the ball, low to high. Its getting more consistent.

Interested in the Rhyzm and how it works now that I'm getting my base technique on the loop to be more automatic. Im not sure when ill get it though. I ordered from a Dutch website and they haven't sent any shipping conformation yet.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote IanMcg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/02/2015 at 10:01pm
Need videos to give good advice
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/03/2015 at 1:44am
Originally posted by IanMcg IanMcg wrote:

Need videos to give good advice
.+1. This is a game where details matter.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote heavyforehand Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/03/2015 at 9:26am
Ok, I'll just work with a coach here. Easier to do for me. Was really mainly curious about the pros and cons of the backhand serve, and it looks like it boils down to disguise there.




Edited by heavyforehand - 09/03/2015 at 9:26am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Ringer84 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/03/2015 at 2:08pm
Originally posted by heavyforehand heavyforehand wrote:


Serve - My pendulum serve gives people problems but the spin I generate on the backhand chop serve is much more vicious and the better players have more problems with attacking it. I also wonder if starting in the middle of the table is an advantage or if I should be starting from the left side. Curious what people thoughts are there.


Food for thought:

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote heavyforehand Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/03/2015 at 6:45pm
Thanks, this is awesome. And the site is great. I never heard of it before. Really helps me out.

I also decided to just go with Max Rhyzm on both sides and move on. The new ball kind of swerved me to this direction plus the reviews of the rubber - it sounds like a very nice rubber to develop my game on, plus the price is right on it from the website I found.

Additionally my backhand benefits a lot from faster rubber. I really miss it a lot. Hopefully that is all sorted. Ill keep my Mark V in a ziplock bag and maybe sell it to a friend.

On the new ball - it plays slower and with less spin, at least to me and my friends. I actually like it now and have been using it all week. I can see how the modern rubbers are more important when I try my friends Rakza 7 soft. It's just easier to grip the ball and get heavy spin. While I still generate heavy spin with the Mark V, when it really starts to ramp up on a looping rally I lose some of the kick I was getting before with the celluloid, but the rakza 7 seems to play even better with the new bal.

I didn't get the Rakza 7 because while I think it is great, it doesn't completely grab me, and for $50 plus a rubber, Id need something to grab me. The Rhyzm can be had for less than Mark V and every review  have read seems to indicate that it will be a good match for me. I shall see next week.


Edited by heavyforehand - 09/03/2015 at 6:50pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote IanMcg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/03/2015 at 8:07pm
tt-japan.net has Mark V for like $20, Rhyzm for $30.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote heavyforehand Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/03/2015 at 10:14pm
Thats nice pricing. I get the Rhyzm for $33 and free shipping so Im happy with that price. High quality rubber on both sides for $66 is too good.

I do think Mark V is overpriced at most places even though it is a really good classic rubber. The best I have used in that style.
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