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Secrets of CNT

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote liulin04 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Secrets of CNT
    Posted: 08/28/2015 at 2:57am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oeJsyKJtQAk

Absolutely amazing, from physical training to statistic analysis to equipment.   This is all we've been waiting for.  Sorry for the non-speaking Chinese members here, let's see if we can get someone to translate this...

Enjoy!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote GMan4911 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/28/2015 at 8:19am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wilkinru Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/28/2015 at 3:10pm
I lost 3 pounds just watching this.

The CNT secret: extremely hard work. Lateral exercises from hell.


Edited by wilkinru - 08/28/2015 at 3:11pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Leftyy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/28/2015 at 3:37pm
Seems so good, I want to understand! 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/28/2015 at 3:51pm
Oh, ML fans are in for a harsh revelation.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote MLfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/28/2015 at 4:26pm
Here's my translation for it. I'm sorry if there are any typos/spelling mistakes - didn't proofread it. 

Each coach trains each player individually. Ma Long has very thin fingers, thin and soft, like a woman's, a pianist's hands. But TT requires strong fingers and strong wrists. Ma Long is intent on improving his backhand. If his fingers/wrist aren’t strong enough, he will get injuries if he insists on changing his backhand technique. Currently, we are trying to improve Ma Long’s lower body strength and explosiveness, in addition to finger and wrist strength. When training Ma Long’s physical ability, emphasis is placed on strength and explosiveness (silences critics who think Ma Long’s play style revolves around power). For Zhang Jike, however, it is speed and endurance. Zhang Jike has one of the best bodies in the team, but his biggest problem is the number of injuries he has, especially his shoulder injury. During closed training (for those who don’t know, closed training is when all team members are required to follow an extremely strict regimen with barely any freedom to do anything not on the schedule) , Zhang Jike will train his shoulder by doing “X” motions (as seen in video) to improve his shoulder strength, and thus decrease the possibility of shoulder problems in the future. Physical training is extremely important in TT (obviously). For most professional TT players, the forearm of the player’s playing arm is longer than the forearm of the other arm.  Yan An sprained his ankle during closed training. While doing rehab exercises, the fitness coach told him that both success and failure can become “habits” and encourages him to succeed on his balance/foot exercise to recover his foot more quickly. Some of the rehab treatments include submerging his foot into 0 degrees water for 10-15 minutes, massage therapy, and balancing on one foot. Quick tip on being a coach/trainer: you must let your student see/feel changes/improvements. Before the WTTCs, the men’s team always has their closed trainings in Xiamen. During these closed trainings, there is a secret. For 3 days, the main players (those who will participate in the singles) do not do any actual training. Instead, they hold a conference with Liu Guoliang and their coaches to discuss mental/emotional factors that may affect their results in the WTTC. All coaches and players give their input on all the players. So for example, Xu Xin will say what he thinks about Zhang Jike’s playing, etc. Due to the nature of this type of discussion, which may include the main players’ technical abilities (ie. Ma Long’s interpretation on how to do a particular loop in a particular situation) and other special secrets, the details are never disclosed to the public. In this video, there is a discussion on why Zhang Jike’s results keep fluctuating after winning the Olympics. Zhang Jike says that in theory, he should have much less pressure during team competitions. But somehow he always fails to get into the right state of mind during matches quickly enough. One key point that he says is that due to the fewer number of games in a team competition (best of 5 games instead of best of 7), he often feels that the match is already over before he has even gotten into the right state of mind. Even when he wins, he says that he is not comfortable. LGL then talks about how his rebellious nature and over self-centeredness could be the root of his inability to manage pressure during team competitions. Xu Xin says that Zhang Jike plays his best when he feels lots of pressure. LGL is also proud of the fact that the Chinese team can work together as a team during these conferences to truly help out any main player so that the team gets the glory. He says that if it were any other country with the world’s top 5 players in a single room, they would not be able to do what the Chinese team can do – which is to give truthful and honest insights to maximally help a teammate. The reason is simple: everybody wants to be the champion.

 

In the video, Ma Long went to find Li Xiaodong (who is the most experienced coach on the team) to ask him about his rhythm control during his matches, specifically on whether his rhythm is too fast or too slow when he wins/loses matches. The research team also helps out on this. For example, they will calculate the “ball-picking” time of Ma Long. The “ball-picking” time is the time Ma Long spends to pick the ball up between each point during a match. One match, among many that they calculated, was the one against Timo Boll during the finals of the 2010 WTTTC (which Ma Long lost). From what they discovered, the average ball-picking time is 26-27 seconds when Ma Long wins, and 22 seconds when he loses. The best matches he plays are when his ball-picking time is 31 seconds (such as during the Asian Championships against Zhang Jike). Apparently the ball-picking time is 17 seconds when he plays his worst. Ma Long is stunned when he hears that he takes up to 30-40 seconds between each point. But what Li Xiaodong says is that his ball-picking time fluctuates too much, and wishes him to control his rhythm more. He wants him to use his “winning” rhythm more, and that when he is trailing behind, to slow the rhythm down so that he has ample time to think and grasp the momentum.

Research team:

Analyzing Boll: from nerves to overall summary and play style and personality

His match with Fan Zhendong was used in the video. For the particular point that was shown in the video, Boll primarily won the point from the down-the-line shot he executed with his backhand. They make “trajectory graphs” that the Chinese players study often before playing the match. Comments such as “average short game ability” are also common. It takes about 7-8 hours to finish analyzing one match. Every shot is recorded, discussed, and analyzed. Li Xiaodong commends the research team, saying that they are able to persist and do such a boring job that earns them no fame or accomplishments.

 

Equipment:

    CNT members are extremely selective about their equipment. Tens of types of blades are given to the CNT every year to try. It often takes 2-3 modifications to satisfy them. Hundreds of thousands of blades are given to the CNT each year (wtf mind-blowing). Each blade in the CNT is “vastly different” in feel. At the time the video is taken, Zhang Jike uses 40.5 degrees on his Hurricane. Even though the DHS machines already have very low uncertainty values, Zhang Jike can still feel it when the hardness isn’t perfectly even or when the hardness isn’t what he wants. CNT main players are also extremely picky about the shoes. Different shoes can be made for different footwork characteristics or different shapes. Modifications for grip and even appearance can also be done. For instance, Zhang Jike wants his left shoe to have the letter J on the back of his shoe, with 3 stars underneath it to symbolize Grand Slam winner LOL, and his right shoe to have the letter “K” but with only one star underneath it, accompanied by 2 question marks that symbolize future goals. Zhang Jike’s feet is also unique in that size 25.5 is too small for him while size 26 is too big. So the team buys 25.5 for him, but also buys an expander in which they put the shoe for 3 days to have it expanded to 25.75.

 

Li Sun:

    He believes that world champions, and especially Grand Slam winners, are people with such talent and something in them that cannot be taught. Wang Nan, Zhang Yining, and Li Xiaoxia are all his students who have gotten Grand Slams. Li Xiaoxia says that Li Sun not only taught her table tennis, but also taught her how to surmount difficulties, and the state of mind she should have to do so.

 



Edited by MLfan - 08/28/2015 at 4:39pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Argothman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/28/2015 at 4:29pm
Thank you for the hard work MLFan! Every time I see you on this forum you're very helpful, I appreciate it!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MLfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/28/2015 at 4:40pm
Thank you for your kind words! Everything for the glory of our sport! :D
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 42andbackpains Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/28/2015 at 5:06pm
Originally posted by MLfan MLfan wrote:

Thank you for your kind words! Everything for the glory of our sport! :D

Very informative. Very very good work. Thanks for the hard work. Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rocketman222 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/28/2015 at 5:10pm
That is very helpful MLfan, i never in my wildest dreams would have thought about finger strengthening exercises, i will go do some finger pushups now :)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Giangt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/28/2015 at 6:42pm
Interesting how they structure and analyse everything. The physical coach is given YAn An a hard time after his injury. Good he is on track again.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MLfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/29/2015 at 1:18am
What piques my interest is the time spent picking up the ball between each point. Ma Lin was also very famous, or infamous rather, for taking a long time for each point. I heard coaches say that taking a lot of time between each point is a strategy against players who are pumped up and at their "excited" stage. By taking a lot of time, you wear down their excitement lol. 

Edited by MLfan - 08/29/2015 at 1:20am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MLfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/29/2015 at 1:21am
Btw, if anybody notices any mistakes in my translation, please correct me! 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote liulin04 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/31/2015 at 4:19am
great job MLF, the translation is spot-on!  WinkClapThumbs Up
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tinykin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/31/2015 at 6:19am
Originally posted by MLfan MLfan wrote:

Btw, if anybody notices any mistakes in my translation, please correct me! 


Are you sure that the meaning, not translation, is correct for "Hundreds of thousands of blades are given to the CNT each year"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zhijie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/31/2015 at 7:21am
Originally posted by Tinykin Tinykin wrote:

Originally posted by MLfan MLfan wrote:

Btw, if anybody notices any mistakes in my translation, please correct me! 


Are you sure that the meaning, not translation, is correct for "Hundreds of thousands of blades are given to the CNT each year"

Translation is correct. At 23:20, the person said "几十万", means "few hundred thousands".

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HappySpinner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/31/2015 at 1:24pm
Thanks op and thanks mlfan for translating!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MLfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/01/2015 at 6:25am
Haha I was a bit shocked at the "few hundred thousand blades" too lol...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MLfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/01/2015 at 6:26am
I think there is another episode of this on YouTube...will try to get round to translating it in a bit, if nobody has yet already :)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote V-Griper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/01/2015 at 12:05pm
Originally posted by MLfan MLfan wrote:

I think there is another episode of this on YouTube...will try to get round to translating it in a bit, if nobody has yet already :)


Thanks for the translation-

Look at the youtube channel that the vid is from for others. 



Edited by V-Griper - 09/01/2015 at 12:06pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Olio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/02/2015 at 10:47am
I was also very surprised at this...


Originally posted by HappySpinner HappySpinner wrote:

Thanks op and thanks mlfan for translating!

Please keep the capital letters (MLfan), as I read is as mifan (= rice)!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kevo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/02/2015 at 11:59am
Really interesting, MLFan. Thanks so much for your hard work in translating. Whenever I bemoan how the internet is ruining modern life, something like this video--and your translation--comes along and makes me think, 'Wow, without the internet, I would never have known or enjoyed reading something so interesting.'  Again, thanks!

On a side note, I wonder is there a cultural component to the idea of freely critiquing one's teammates as the CNT does.  I, for example, cannot imagine it done in my workplace in Ireland even when discussing critical incidents etc.  I suppose the idea of CNT players viewing themselves as a 'team/group' must transcend individual desires/resentments etc.  (Not to say for one minute that underneath it all, each may be raging at their teammate's assessments!)


Edited by kevo - 09/03/2015 at 6:52am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bran Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/02/2015 at 1:33pm
It's not just cultural. You may benefit from knowing this or that player's weakness, but you get a much bigger advantage from having each member of the group telling you yours, especially when you have a large group.

It's in everybody's advantage to share the findings. So it's a perfectly rational decision, in the economics sense of the word.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tinykin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/02/2015 at 1:51pm
Plus these guys have been through several selection processes over their lives. They probably have learned some humility in that time.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote notfound123 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/02/2015 at 1:54pm
"Hundreds of thousands of blades are given to the CNT each year"

I personally don't think this is 100% true. I understand they have direct access to the DHS facilities. They must be referring to the batches that are set aside for the CNT members. Those batches are then getting tested/weighted/bent etc and best of the best are picked for the players to inspect. They made it sound like DHS mails 100K blades to Ma Long's home address for him to choose from.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Victor_the_cleaner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/02/2015 at 2:22pm
What an amazing text! ML should set up an account for donations, and I will donate to you and everyone else who spends the time to do a quality translation. I am not joking, think about it, even if its voluntary you will get a few bucks for a new rubber.
I don't know what is with these chinese texts, but I always find them so deep and abstract and revealing things that nobody else thinks about.

And now, finally, I feel redemption for the time I spend arguing in a couple of threads about Ma Long's strength and him slowing down when he is losing. I was right and you was wrong, whoever you were, so, yeah, in yo face! 

Zeio is really helpful in this too. We need a thread with original chinese texts and then the translations, and only an admin, zeio and MLfan (and whoever else translates) should have rights to post there, so we don't get the thread littered with the annoying comments of people. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote DreiZ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/02/2015 at 2:31pm
What I found useful from this video is that ML wins more points by taking a longer break while picking up the ball. Very useful for myself to slow down the pace of the game as well. I noticed a lot of times when I slow it down and take a breath, I can focus on my serve and 3rd ball attack.

Very very important piece of information IMO.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote minja Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/02/2015 at 3:23pm
Originally posted by DreiZ DreiZ wrote:

What I found useful from this video is that ML wins more points by taking a longer break while picking up the ball. Very useful for myself to slow down the pace of the game as well. I noticed a lot of times when I slow it down and take a breath, I can focus on my serve and 3rd ball attack.

Very very important piece of information IMO.


There's a guy where I play who does something similar to what ma long does of wiping the hand close to the net before every point.
It's annoying and disrupts the general timing.

I think I play around 10 players there and the only one who does this all the time is him.
With the others it's like there's a natural rhythm that's the same and everything flows easily.
It's almost as if you are doing something together.
With him it's like when I try to have this same rhythm and speed I always get from him a stop, a barrier, a "wait until I'm ready and then we proceed".
I find myself time and time again thinking "ok let's play the next point" then look at him and he's close to the net cleaning or doing something.

It's like a stoppage to the natural flow and an attempt to be the one who dictates pace.

Ma long does this greatly, I think it's a good part of why he's number one.
But it's like a dirty trick, I wouldn't be proud of doing this.


Edited by minja - 09/02/2015 at 3:40pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote igorponger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/02/2015 at 3:45pm
MODERN SLAVERY.   ILL DESTINY FOR MA_LONG.

Poor Chinese boys. No family amenities, no sex, no food luxury.
Antique Rome's Slavery does look to live a better destiny.

Feel really sorry for the boys.   Playing pingpang professionally is a bitter earning, grave losses. . Yes.

Edited by igorponger - 09/16/2015 at 1:46pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote berndt_mann Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/02/2015 at 4:02pm
Should you encounter an opponent who takes his own sweet time picking up balls or wiping his hand close to the net, there is a remedy, but it is somewhat drastic and rather unusual.

In your table tennis bag, bring along an electric cordless toothbrush, some toothpaste, some dental floss, and some mouthwash.  While your opponent is busy picking up a ball or wiping off his hand, proceed to floss every one of your thirty-two teeth, brush each of them thoroughly, front, top, and back, hoist your mouthwash, gargle conspicuously, walk over to your opponent's side of the table, and spit out the contents of your dental hygiene next to where he assumes his ready position.

This should solve the problem.  If it doesn't, you have probably engaged a bigger table tennis a-hole than you ever bargained for.
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