G40+ versus Nittaku Premium 40+

I have used every type of plastic ball known to our species except for G40+, but mine arrived and I will try them tomorrow, so will be able to compare directly G40+ and NP40+.  A lot of descriptions already out there suggest that the G40+ play much the same way I would describe NP40+ but I won't know till I try them myself.  However, the G40+ clearly have some unique properties you can see without playing.

1. Just bouncing a G40+ on my desk I can tell the sound is very different from NP40+ or XSF.  G40+ sound a lot like early seamless prototypes in terms of sound (kind of like IPong seamless balls). 

2. It is hard to see the seam in a G40+ unless you shine light through it, which is also true of NP40+ (and very different from Chinese seamed balls).  However, the seam in a G40+ is quite a bit bigger than a NP40+ (the amount the two halves overlap).  Butterfly says that even though they have a seam, the inner diameter does not increase where the seam is.  Nittaku Premium has a very very small seam. 

3. Another really obvious difference I can see right away with two new unused balls right out of the box is that the surface of the G40+ ball is a lot smoother than either NP40+ or XSF.  It is instantly discernible when you take two balls and rub them together.  The sound of two NP40+ (or XSF) is greater than G40+ and you can feel more vibration.  The smoothness of the surface may affect the way they fly through the air and (probably more importantly), the way they react to the table.

4.  Butterfly is slightly more expensive than Nittaku (as usual for everything Butterfly makes).  The packaging is really nice.  The box protects the balls very well during shipping.  Probably adds to the cost.

Everybody seems to comment on the sound of the G40+ but I don't think anybody has mentioned points 2 and 3 yet.

Next week I will make precise weight measurements of the G40+.

OK, here are some more details about the G40+, specifically in reference to NP40+ and also XSF.  I played with it for two hours today on Tibhar Smash 28 tables.

G40+ bounces about the same height as an XSF ball, which is a little higher than NP40+ (and a lot higher than Chinese seamed balls).  Personally I like this, but if you are used to NP40+, you will need to keep this in mind.

As everyone mentions, weird sound, but after about 5 minutes you stop noticing or caring.  Once you realize the ball bounces normally and not like a broken ball, the sound stops mattering.

The good news is that this is a perfectly decent ball and my partner and I had fun playing with it today.  Also, new balls right out of the box will not put any dust residue on your rubber!!  (Very different from NP40+).

The bad news is that it does not really play all that much like an NP40+, it is not really like a XSF either, and it is definitely not like a Chinese seamed ball (thank goodness).  The G40+ is unique, which means that there is even more variability in the playing properties of plastic balls, and this is really a fourth class of ball. 

In the original Table Tennis Daily review, they mentioned that the ball flies very straight in the air.  I agree, in fact it is one of the things that seems to me to be different from either NP40+ or XSF.  My theory is this has something to do with the unusually smooth surface of the G40+.  I also had the impression it flies fast through the air.  Is this really the case or an illusion of some type?  Hard to say but that's how it seemed.

I felt like the ball had more spin after the bounce on the table, and that it jumped less off the table as a result of spin.  My guess is that it is heavier than NP40+ (I will weigh precisely next week) but also a lot harder than a XSF, so it will seem lighter when you play with it.  At times it felt somewhat intermediate between XSF and NP40+ but when you flat hit the ball or blocked with authority, the ball seemed to move super fast.

My suspicion is that the very smooth surface of the ball is part of the reason it plays differently.

A couple of really good players on the next table (Jimmy and Niraj) hit with one briefly, the first impression they had was not altogether positive, but they didn't give it more than about 5 minutes.  I very much value the opinion of very good players, they just see and feel things more accurately.

I am not sure if people will like G40+ better or worse than NP40+ or XSF.  To be honest, I am not entirely sure myself how I feel about it. 

The one thing I am sure of is that it is certainly as legitimate an effort to make a decent plastic ball as either XSF or NP40+.  There were no grossly bad bounces (I am very accustomed to 40+ balls, have used them exclusively for 18 months).  Didn't break one in two hours.

I will write more after I have played with it some more, and also after other people in my club at various levels have had a change to try it out.  But if you held a gun to my head and say rank order the balls, I would say NP40+ > XSF = G40+ >>>>>>>> any Chinese seamed ball.   

I practiced with the G40+ for about 45 min today with >2400 player. My observations are as follows:
-ball was round and consistent, no weird/unpredictable bounces
-bounce appeared high, definitely higher than Nittaku Premium 40+, and slightly higher than XSF
-it felt harder than Nittaku and XSF
-it was more difficult to impart spin, and likewise I was less affected by opponent's spin
-trajectory was a little unusual (flattish), but not too weird, so one can adjust
-it felt like the ball is 'heavier' and flies slower than other poly balls I played with, e.g. I needed more active blocks/drives in order to get decent pace
-the sound is a little annoying, especially on blocks, drives, and flat hits, but I think I could get used to it
-G40+ is definitely less lively than XSF/seamless clones (which I like more), but I think I prefer it over Nittaku Premium

What's the average size??? Smaller like nittaku or slightly larger like XSF ones???

Will need to see the durability of these new balls compared to NP40+. Since I've started playing in September with NP40+s, I've only broken two of them so far playing once a week for 3-4 hours.

Then you will like the G40+ a lot.  High bounce and very stable flight.  Some of the German guys who post at Table Tennis Daily have had access to the G40+ balls for a bit longer than we have and they also said durability is pretty good.  To be honest, the only plastic balls I have had durability issues with are the Chinese seamed balls, which should probably just disappear.  In my experience with XSF and NP40+, a long average based over several months (19 with XSF), and with many boxes of these balls, durability is very good, actually better than celluloid.  Yes they occasionally break, XSF breaks on contact with edges especially.  But on average they are durable.

Here are the data on G40+ weight (measured with a Denver Instruments laboratory balance). 

G40+ average weight was 2.76 grams +/- 0.03 grams (standard deviation) calculated from 6 balls.

NP40+ average with a sample of 6 was 2.70 grams +/- 0.02 grams (standard deviation). 

Main conclusions so far are:

1. The NP40+ is the lightest plastic ball.  In fact the heaviest NP40+ ball you will ever find is lighter than the lightest ball of almost any other brand.  In fact, some will be lighter than some of the celluloid balls. 

2.  The average weight of a G40+ is almost exactly the same as XSF (based on my earlier measurements with the same very well calibrated laboratory balance).  By comparison, Chinese seamed balls from last year were pretty much always at 2.80 grams or greater.  Unless they have managed to fix that, they will not be approved for long after January 1.

I have misplaced my calipers! 

I think that when people say a ball feels lighter or heavier when they play, that feeling may or may not have something to do with the weight.  More often it has something to do with the hardness of the ball.  (Kicking a deflated football, it may feel heavier).  I think, though that the way a Nittkau Premium plays has a lot to do with the fact that it is simply a slightly smaller ball than the others (based on my precise measurements of weight, and wturber's measurements of diameter).

Next Level mentions that the G40+ has a lot in common with XSF (and on a lot of shots that seems right to me) and I think that may be due to the fact that they have the same weight.  However, the differences I notice between G40+ and XSF may have to do with the fact they are made of a different plastic with different hardness and external texture.  I think the G40+ flies straighter and maybe faster.

I will push them to try the G40+ for longer time.  I think Jimmy in particular was out off by the sound more than anything, and they need to experience it in match play. 

By the way, my practice partner loved the G40+.  I play with him a lot, so I think I will be using the G40+ more in the next few weeks (and why not, since I bought a box of 12 and I don't hate them). 

I really do like the Nittaku Premium though.  That was true from the first time I hit with it.

And I agree also, I tend to prefer XSF when they are just a bit used.  They last forever, so that is not a problem.

vanjr wrote: The first post said all I need to know about the G40+, ie it is more expensive than the NP40+. For me the NP40+ is already too expensive while being inferior to the XSF balls in quality.   Frankly I would prefer to the stay with the XSF family of balls. But of course what ever ball "wins out" if indeed any of them do win out will be what I end up playing with in tournaments and will ultimately win the day.

I would think brand loyalty would make the Nittaku NP40+ the favorite to "win out", at least here with the old celluloid ball it was the premier favorite.

Nittaku was the brand way back in the day...but I would say since the early 21st century many of the other manufacturers celluloid balls were just fine, and I liked the fact they were cheaper than the Nittaku ones. So early on Nittaku might win, but if they do I suspect the other manufacturers will keep getting better and be as accepted as the Nittaku Premiums over time. 

Interesting that the new G40 bounces as high as the XSF, feels very hard like the NP40+, and sounds "tiny" like 1st gen. seamless Palio.  I haven't tried it but I think it should play more like a XSF than NP40+.  Hitting and driving (rather than spinning) with this new ball should work better than with the NP40+ due to higher bounce...

Baal wrote: I need to try it some more.  From the 2 hours I had yesterday, the notion that it is actually a bit more like a XSF than an NP40+ is not crazy at all.  It depends on what features of the XSF are most important to you or stick in your mind.  I think my main impression, though, is that it has a few properties of its own because it definitely does not react to the table as much as XSF, even though it bounces just as high.

has anyone ever seen the Stiga plastic balls? I bought some from Sweden when I ordered the Carbonado. 

Baal wrote: Agree, actually I was pretty unhappy with some of the Nittaku celluloid premiums I had towards the end if the celluloid era.  I thought they were overpriced and quality had gone down.  With celluloid it really didn't matter that much which one you picked in terms of playing (at least when they were new)  I liked quite a few types, and it really didn't matter all that much, you just picked one out of the bag and played.  I felt like DHS wore out and got shiny rapidly but that was true with Nittaku also.  I actually liked Bty quite a bit, but these were pretty minor differences all in all. But now it matters.  You are used to XSF and suddenly faced with a Nittaku or G40?  Or much worse yet, a Chinese seamed ball?  Better take a half hour or 45 minutes to get re-programmed to what is happening.  And if it is a serious tournament, you better practice a week or two with the ball they will be using.